snagging or flossing

FishiinShawn · 10-18-2005, 02:24 PM

I have been registered on the board for something like a month or two. Since I have been here, I have heard more moaning and groaning about snagging or foul hooked fish then any where on earth. We all have our own views, on flossing fish. We all know that snagging is illegal. So how about we stop beating a dead horse here. Either report it to the authorities or don't. I personally am getting bored watching some of you come here to get e-high fives because they saw or reported someone doing something which may or may not have been illegal.

The intent of this post is not to start another thread about snagging, where we can all argue about it or congradulate each other. It is just to say do what you gotta do, no reason to post it up here every single day. I dont wanna debate it or flame people. I am just tired of the complaining. In the end I am trying to say, report it or not, just dont come on the internet and start whining about it. :shocked:

cimfl · 10-18-2005, 02:25 PM

AMEN!

Blue Tip Spinner · 10-18-2005, 02:26 PM

HammondSeaRanger · 10-18-2005, 02:43 PM

I agree to a point.

If you see someone snagging or doing anything criminal report it no doubts about that, getting on the board and whining about Snaggers, I agree, tone it down.

But i think that if you do something comendable in any portion of your life and want to share it on the internet for your friends to bare witness, I feel that is a good thing.

Matt

dcgrav · 10-18-2005, 02:45 PM

HELL YEA!

Lucky one · 10-18-2005, 03:19 PM

I didn't see what you were talking about until I read some other posts. There's a lot of holy fisherman out there that only fish the "right" way and I'm tired of hearing about it.

First Light Bite · 10-18-2005, 04:03 PM

A flossing post I can 100% agree with.....leave it alone or not; just shut up and fish.

And leave your problem or not on the river bank not here. This thing has been beat to death tooooooo many times, (years now) let it die. Those who will, will and those who don't won't. Report if you want or can just leave it on the river where it belongs it is way beyond serving any useful purpose here.

BC Steel · 10-18-2005, 04:09 PM

Since I have been here, I have heard more moaning and groaning about snagging or foul hooked fish then any where on earth.

Ironically, that includes you now too. Loven the double standard you got going on there

Puffer · 10-18-2005, 05:40 PM

What about www.ifloss.com seems to be a big market there....

Fisherman_Mark · 10-18-2005, 06:14 PM

e-high 5 back at you man...hahha

rob allen · 10-18-2005, 06:23 PM

Sorry but I strongly disagree!!!

flossing/ snagging is a SREIOUS issue!!! probably the most serious issue that is for sportsmen alone to take action on. I don't care what anyone thinks flossing and snagging are both wrong ways to fish. 15 years ago northwest anglers wouldn even have debated this issue and would have been ashamed of even accidentally foul hooking a fish. Now intentionally foul hooking a salmon or steelhead is becoming a widespread and accepted behavior. I think Ifish and the general fishing populations needs to actively reject flossing and snagging and actively codemn it as the horrible illegal act that it is. snaggers and flossers should not be given a forum within the angling community. It is a wrong behavior and should be scorned actively and loudly!
I think this board should be used to" complain and whine" about this issue because these horrible people are taking over some of the northwest most beloved fisheries and turning them into havens for illegal activity and pollution..

snaggers and flossers are bad people and ethical anglers need to run them off the river! That is a fact and NOT open for debate...

Fin - atic · 10-18-2005, 06:30 PM

I am with you on this one rob allen.

Snagging and flossing are both very serious issues.

Rakkasan · 10-18-2005, 06:51 PM

I hate to say it, but I have to disagree with everyone screaming about it on ifish versus doing something about it. While fishing the Sandy last Friday I witnessed over 10 fish illegally taken by snagging. Watching the rod tips in the big hole was like watching the wave over and over at a football game. Instead of sitting there as I have done in the past, I made a decision to take some action. I wrote the state police a lengthy e-mail on Sunday on the situation on the Sandy. I received a phone call today from a trooper who works fish and game enforcement in that area. After giving him some information on what I observed he stated that the Sandy has been a thorn in his side. I explained to him that I, as a fisherman, need to take action when they cannot be around. He simply told me to call the 800 number on my tag and he would be paged to the area as soon as he could get there. Yes, I may have to wait a while but if I am willing to do something about it then I guess I have to be patient sometimes. If it means I have to follow someone out to get there plate number I guess my fishing will be cut short. I know these guys cannot be everywhere at one time. He told me that he would be glad to walk in and deal with the guilty party. As a witness I would have to appear in court. Again, this is something I am willing to do. The more people that step up to the plate the more that will be done. They need our eyes and time as well. This is like anything else in this country. If I want change something I have to be willing to step up to the plate and do something about it. If I sit back and snivel about it nothing is going to happen. I can almost guarantee that I will be on my cell phone on Friday giving them a call. I am sick of watching it and having law breaker screwing the honest anglers.

David Banaka

C-lice · 10-18-2005, 07:15 PM

I'm not ready to admit that flossing and snagging are the same thing.

I realize that there are several similarities, most notably the fish's lack of involvement in the hooking process.

However, at the end of the day, there is nothing illegal in Oregon about keeping a fish which has been flossed. The hook sticking "outside in" through the mandible is a legal hookup. I was once told by an OSP officer that a legal hookup was "in front of the eyes".

THEREFORE, TO ME, there is a difference between flossing and snagging. Snagging is illegal. Flossing is not.

Personally, I have done both snagging and flossing (in my early teenage years when body count meant everything to me). At this point in my life, the exciting part of catching a fish is the strike. Very little else matters to me. I really don't even care a lot when fish come unbuttoned. It's all about the strike.

In fact, one of my favorite things to do is to land a fish that obviously bites right in front of a bunch of flossers. Makes me feel kinda smug, like Andy Dufrense in "The Shawshank Redemption" when the inmates were drinking beers on the prison roof.

So please, treat flossing and snagging as similar but different things. Don't condemn people for non-illegal activities

crabbait · 10-18-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

I'm not ready to admit that flossing and snagging are the same thing.

I realize that there are several similarities, most notably the fish's lack of involvement in the hooking process.

However, at the end of the day, there is nothing illegal in Oregon about keeping a fish which has been flossed. The hook sticking "outside in" through the mandible is a legal hookup. I was once told by an OSP officer that a legal hookup was "in front of the eyes".

THEREFORE, TO ME, there is a difference between flossing and snagging. Snagging is illegal. Flossing is not.

I strongly suggest that you review the regulations.

The law states that it is unlawful to snag or attempt to snag. "Flossing" is snagging or attempting to snag in that the fish does not voluntarily take the hook into it's mouth.

Additionally, the regs state that it is unlawful to "take gamefish that is hooked other than in the mouth". Not in front of the eyes, not around the mouth, "in" the mouth. That means that the hook needs to be inside the mouth, not hooked from the outside. That would be "outside" the mouth.

If you are arguing that in the mandible, from the outside in, is "in" the mouth then you are simply trying to justify snagging.

Snagging/flossing is to fishing as prostitution is to love making. They may be similar and may take place in the same basic environment but there the similarity abruptly ends.

Fisher16 · 10-18-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

The law states that it is unlawful to snag or attempt to snag. "Flossing" is snagging or attempting to snag in that the fish does not voluntarily take the hook into it's mouth.

Those might be Wash regs but you did not get that from the Oregon regs.

I have had the same situation with OSP. As long as the hook is in the mouth (outside in, inside out, doesnt matter) it is a legal fish.

RiverDog · 10-18-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

I realize that there are several similarities, most notably the fish's lack of involvement in the hooking process.

Uhh... yeah, that sounds legal

For all those who don't want to read posts on flossing/snagging... don't open the post!

C-lice · 10-18-2005, 08:45 PM

"I strongly suggest that you review the regulations.

The law states that it is unlawful to snag or attempt to snag. "Flossing" is snagging or attempting to snag in that the fish does not voluntarily take the hook into it's mouth.

Additionally, the regs state that it is unlawful to "take gamefish that is hooked other than in the mouth". Not in front of the eyes, not around the mouth, "in" the mouth. That means that the hook needs to be inside the mouth, not hooked from the outside. That would be "outside" the mouth.

If you are arguing that in the mandible, from the outside in, is "in" the mouth then you are simply trying to justify snagging."

Crabbait--

I would submit that it would be very hard to prove one attempted to snag a fish which was flossed. Most flossers I have seen are in effect flockshooting--drifting through an area they suspect fish might travel at some point during the day. In that instance, I cannot say that angler "A" was attempting to snag fish "X"--he was merely casting to an advisable location. And now his hook is in a fish's mouth.

Also, with all due respect, if the OSP trooper tells me what HIS definition of a legal hookup is, I'm going with his 'un instead of your 'un. Absent proof of an act of snagging, one is left with nothing but a fish hooked in a legal part of its anatomy.

Also, (I don't have the regs in front of me, so I apologize) isn't snagging specifically hooking or attempting to hook a fish other than in the mouth? If a snagger is attempting to hook a fish in the mouth...well, aren't we all?

It boils down to intent, I believe. If a person intends to run a long leader through a school of fish and get lucky when a fish inhales his leader, then that person assumes a certain standing in my mind--that of a unskilled and unrefined angler, but not a lawbreaker. When a person casts a heavy, bright lure with treble hooks into an area he suspects has fish, and rips the rod parallel to the water or waits for a line bump to set the hook, that person also attains a standing to me--that of a lawbreaker I'll report to the authorities at the first opportunity. If a person reduces a fish to posession which was hooked other than in front of the eyes, I view that person also as a lawbreaker.

I'm really not trying to convert anyone to my way, and I'm not bad-mouthing those who feel differently than I do. I'm just saying that in my mind there's a difference between a flosser and a snagger.

fishinpox · 10-18-2005, 08:57 PM

blah blah blah blah

Turn and Burn · 10-18-2005, 09:05 PM

Maybe you view flossing as permitted because of your limited ability to actually get a fish to bite.

Lucky one · 10-18-2005, 09:10 PM

Here we go burn on people because they aren't as good of a fisherman as you.

Fisher16 · 10-18-2005, 09:25 PM

Quote:

If you are arguing that in the mandible, from the outside in, is "in" the mouth then you are simply trying to justify snagging."

I guess alot of kwikfish and spinner fish are snagged in the mouth then as well if you go by those terms.

Oregon regs state that snagging is attempting to hook a fish other than in the mouth. It does NOT specify weather the hook has to be from the inside out or not.

I personally have gotten bobber fish that were hooked outside in, many spinner fish in tidewater outside in, fish on plugs hooked outside in, ect. There is no way for someone other than the rod holder to know for sure if the fish hit the offering or not unless it is actually seen when hooked. The argument that the fish has to be hooked inside out does not hold water.

I suggest you talk to an OSP officer about it. I already have and will continue to bonk fish that are hooked in the mouth no matter what way the hook enters.

crabbait · 10-18-2005, 09:30 PM

and if I see you fishing an 8' leader, swinging for the fences on every cast and bonking fish that are hooked around the mouth I will be taking your picture, making a phone call, and doing my best to make you famous.

Why not learn to catch fish, instead?

Fisher16 · 10-18-2005, 09:32 PM

I have never and never will use an 8' leader 36" max for me. You can take any pics you want and make as many phone calls as you want. If the fish is hooked in the mouth it gets the

oregonoutdoors · 10-18-2005, 09:43 PM

FishiinShawn

Striper Club · 10-18-2005, 10:14 PM

Oregon is an interesting state. There are those of us who enjoy fishing and there are those that are salmon meat crazy. Fishing is not the act of catching fish, despite what I have observed in my time in this fair state. What I have seen in many cases is more along the theme of "GET A SALMON OR DIE".

It is a shame that people get so <petunias!> over a fish, when the whole point is to enjoy nature and every now and again feel the rush of catching a fish.

Relax, people. Go fishing and try to appreciate that simple act. I have never seen such stupidity as those that think that fishing includes cleverly snagging a non-biting fish in the head.

Yes, to all those folks that are 'oh so clever' as to snag a fish in the head. You are all dolts and it is a wonder that Darwinian Law has not taken care of your section of the gene pool. ----this is not directed to the poster, nor the person who last posted--that is the way this board works as far as relplying....this is just a general [petunias!] to all those that spend far too much time trying to learn this whole 'intra-web' thang.

Mikeymoto · 10-18-2005, 10:30 PM

0

john montana · 10-18-2005, 11:06 PM

i can't believe that there are actually people defending flossing...it is snagging plain and simple. you can split a hair so you can kill and keep your precious fish, but just because you can argue your way into the gray area of legality doesn't mean you are clear on the ethical side. striper club is right on with his remarks.

and it certainly has a place in an online discussion forum. if it isn't taken seriously here, where will it be taken seriously?

FisherJack · 10-18-2005, 11:18 PM

:whazzup: FishiinShawn - What is wrong with "talking" about a subject on which people have strong and opposite views? As someone else said, where is there a better place for such discussion than here on Ifish? That is especially the case where the subject line clearly identifies the subject of the post, as you have done. If people don't want to read about or participate in such an online discussion, they can simply not open the post.

Jack

RBfisher · 10-19-2005, 12:06 AM

If there was only 1 definition of "flossing" this whole mess would be easier to discuss.
Most of you are not trying to discuss anything you are trying to impose your ethics and opinions on others and pass them off as law.
If you consider "flossing" to be 10+ feet of leader cast into big pools of fish you missed the boat. There are people who "floss" with 3 feet of leader and shorter.
In low clear water the act of "flossing" is to see the fish,see the "hook" and control the hook to go into the fishes mouth.
If you think all forms of putting the presentation into the fish's mouth is illegal if the fish "involuntarily" gets it in their mouth, you need to stop fishing a number of methods you fish now. Do you think all fish caught on fly's / bobber-egg / drift fishing / side drifting / back bouncing / plugs / etc... voluntarily take every presentation? How do you determine the ones that do from the ones that do not? Is it if the hook is inside the mouth?
Is it possible that your presentation is exactly at the right depth to "slip" inside the gaping jaws of a gasping fish? Voluntary?
Do you think it is possible that some fish that take these baits / spinner etc.. are simply protecting their territory?
Maybe they are just PO' d enough to hit at the presentation?
Maybe they are just trying to smash and disperse that cluster of eggs to prevent competition?
Are any of these possibilities "voluntary"?
You may not be trying to do these things intentionally or maybe you are, how does anybody "know" your intentions?
It is NOT illegal to place a bait in a fish's mouth flossing any more than it is to back bounce into it's mouth or slide a fly in there either.
Ethical? How ethical is it to target fish that you can not keep? How moral is it to know you have a native or protected fish on your favorite plug and fight it nearly to death just to get that fish killing plug back?
Don't talk ethics and morals unless your initials are JC and you have walked on water.
On a finale note, how do you know for certainty that when a fish is presented with a bait directly in front of it's nose it did NOT open up and take that bait in voluntarily?
Kind of hard to tell from a distance isn't it?
For those that fish and wildly jerk on every bump and tailout they most likely either do not know what they are doing OR know exactly what they are doing and are indeed trying to snag a fish and THAT is snagging as well as any form of bait used with that wild eyed jerking stroke.
Flossing is very different than snagging just as any other form of fishing technique when there is a chance the fish might be FOUL HOOKED.
Get off the high horses and think about things instead of jumping on a dog pile and accusing people of illegal activities just because they do things different than you do.
I'm sure the Popes ethics and morals are a bit more defined concerning taxes/applications/resumes/business dealings etc... than yours are but does that make you a 3 toothed inbred?
Remember glass houses,judge not lest...

HammondSeaRanger · 10-19-2005, 12:06 AM

my dentist suggests I floss every morning ... is that wrong?

mrprincedog · 10-19-2005, 04:09 AM

bluepig
its not wrong as long as you dont snag one of your teeth, as long as your in Oregon...or something. im confused.

JustCallMeDave · 10-19-2005, 05:36 AM

Bluepig,

As long as you are willfully taking that floss into your mouth, then you are fine.

Frankly, it really bothers me how this forum software forces me to click on every single link, even on things that I don't want to read about (flossing techniques, whining about flossing, whining about flossing whiners, Go Beavs/Ducks/Platypi, et al). I would much rather simply view the threads that *I* want to view, and not every last thread. Wouldn't it be great if we could just use our mouse and only click on and then view the threads that we WANT to view? Dang, that would be awesome, wouldn't it?

I guess that would be too much to ask. </sarcasm>

Jennie@ifish · 10-19-2005, 05:38 AM

For those of you who want to read more on flossing, snagging, click on "search" and type in those words, with quotations around them... Like this:

"flossing" or "snagging"

Read away and have a great time!

But, as for me and my horse, this thread is dead.

:smile:

All gone... Just causes too many fights, and I'm here to unite fishermen and women, not hash over old topics until we hate one another.

Jen