Hunter Ethics. Am I confused?

[steelhead22]

OK, this weekend my dad and I hunted the White River Unit. What happened this morning kinda threw me for a loop. Here's the deal. We stopped at one of our favorite roads last night. It's a "dead" road with a metal gate thing across it. So we set up camp (basically it was just our tent and rig at the beginning of this road), planning on taking a stand around 5 am or so the next morning.

This morning we had been on the stand for about 4 hours when these two guys come walking down the road. At first I'm thinkin' "OK, this stuff just happens with public hunting" but then I remember that there are no other roads for miles and the only place the could've parked was right next to our rig and tent at the top of the road!
So I say hi and ask where they came from, "Oh, up the road, we've got a couple of guys making a drive behind you. They might be pushing something out." Then the guy walks right past me, not looking me in the eye, right into the woods I'm hunting!!

OK, so maybe these guys started a drive and didn't check if there was anyone at the end of it. No harm done. BUT WAIT, our rig is at the start of the road! So we leave, a little disappointed at a ruined hunt. We get to our rig and sure enough, there is there car, parked across the road. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] Now, here comes one of the "drivers" down the road. Here's how the conversation went:

"Are you one of the guys on the drive, and is this your rig?"

"Yeah."

"Didn't you guys see our rig here BEFORE you started your drive?"

"Yep."

"And you still thought it was a good idea to make a drive here."

"Yeah, why not?"

"Because we've been on a stand for 4 hours and now you guys are walking right through the area we are hunting."

Silence.

Am I confused in thinking that this is completely ridiculous? If there is a rig parked in an area I want to hunt, I move on. It seems like common courtesy to me not to hunt ON TOP of others and in the area they are already hunting. Someone explain this, please. :whazzup: :shocked:

[StickFish]

Nearly the same thing happened to me last year. We ended up doing our hunt as planed, but now over crowded. OUr nasty visitors started shooting over our heads at "Deer" 800 yards away. If they'd have used the binoculars they didn't have they would have found that the stump was already dead. Than 8 more people come in on top of the 2 of us and 6 uninvited guests making a nice 16 people in that clear cut.

That is when I low crawled back to the truck - wrote them all nasty grams on their windows and to their business addresses since they were kind enough to drive company trucks in their.

Two contractor companies I'll never use. And I wonder if they deduct 100% of that business vehicle, just where did I put that informants report.

I think we should print up some hunters ethics cards and give them out to ******** like this.

[steelhead22]

Now that I've chilled out a bit, I feel a little better about the whole thing. I guess ya' just gotta deal with it and find a different spot to hunt. The thing that gets me isn't that they were walking through our hunt, that's happened to me many times, and I've been that guy walking through someone else's hunt. Thing is, in those cases, the guys didn't know we were there. In fact, as a "stand hunter", I'm kinda using the fact that a lot of other guys are pushing the deer around to my advantage. They move 'em, I shoot 'em type deal. But in this case, these guys made the decision to make a drive right on top of us, knowing full well that we were hunting the area. They just didn't care, and that gets me. Anyway, whatever, it was still a fun hunt anyway. Lots of turkey, 'bout 20 or so antelope, elk, deer, 3 bobcats, but the buck just didn't show himself this trip.

[Mello-Yello]

Playing devils advocate here, but it's quite possible these guys had planned this hunt before you guys wheeled in there the night before. If that were the case, they'd be the ones that would feel they had been infringed on.

Rule number one when planning a hunt on public land; have a backup plan or be willing to share the hill. It would have been courteous of them to go elsewhere, under assumption that you guys were hunting down that road, but I don't think it delves into bad ethics.

If they'd pushed a trophy your way, you'd likely have a different opinion.

This sort of thing happens to me all too frequently, so I certainly feel your frustration.

Something I've considered for years was to make a small duo-fold type sign that I could setup on a deadend road that states "Hunter ahead, please be courteous", or words to that affect. Then again, someone would probably steal it and leave me a sign that says "Pi$$ oFF"...

What's a guy to do?

[steelhead22]

I like the idea of a sign. That seems like it could work. I think I'll give that a try next time.

I see what you're saying about them having the hunt planned in advance. And I see that side because our hunt too, was planned in advance. In fact, this was our 3rd spot. Our first two choices were already taken, so we just kept moving along until one of them was open. Seems like the only way to go. These days you can't have only 1 alternative, but it's good to have a handful, because most likely many of those spots will be taken. I also agree, that this falls out of the "ethics" category and into "hunter courtesy". It just gets frustrating when you've hunted a place for 4 hours, making a point to eliminate as much scent as possible, get in well before light to allow things to settle down, make a little noise as possible while your hunting, and then a big group of guys walks 2 feet from you right into the area your hunting giving you that "I know I'm messing up your hunt, but I don't really care" look the whole time. Well, such is the nature of public hunting.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Its public ground and there are more hunters than there is public ground, hunters get doubled up in some spots. :depressed: It will only get worse in time. :depressed:

I spent years elk hunting in a small area with several other hunters. It turned into a foot race to see who could get into shooting position quicker when a bull showed. We all knew each other, and lots of smack talk would ensue when somebody would fill a tag. I miss those days, it was a friendly and not so friendly competition all at the same time.

Take Reel Handel for instance, he didnt get to do much smack talking, they called him "slow foot".

[Gus Orviston]

yeah, I use to know an old guy that went by slow foot, it took him forever to get to a shooting spot, spikes turned into 4 points in that much time :tongue:

Funny thing about where people camp and where they hunt...not always the same place. There is a trailer every year parked on one of the trails into a favorite canyon we like to haunt...yes haunt. They never hunt the canyon, but I have walked by their rig/trailer right smack dab in the way many times. Last year I spoke with them, and had a good chat.

gus

[Tilla]

I am not sure these guys thought they were stepping on your toes. You may have been making a drive or whatever, how do they know what you're doing? You could have been 100 yds down the trail or 5 miles.
I rely on the walkers to move the animals around during bow season and on rifle opening days. Usually I hike 30-50 minutes away from camp and like this year, get runover by them Elk.

[fortywinks]

Roy-Who carried your ladder?

[stick flicker]

Once again I am of the same opinion of MelloYello. I can't stand the guys that think that when they are hunting public land that just because they hunted there last year that it automatically entitles them to landowner rights. We had a guy come into our bow elk camp this season and proceed to tell us that this was his camp because of a table that he had built here in the off season.He wanted us to leave? We all told him what we thought of that. Its a double edged sword, I can understand his frustration but it isn't his or your land its ours.

[steelhead22]

stick flicker- I totally agree. That is completely ridiculous of that guy to ask you to leave, it isn't his area. Although you're saying you disagree with me, your actually AGREEING with me. That guy SAW that you were in that spot, but didn't care. He was going to do what he wanted whether you liked it our not. Same situation with me, those guys knew we were there, and chose to perform a drive right through the area we were hunting. It was just very inconsiderate in my opinion. Just like that guy could've simply found a different camp, those guys had thousands of miles to perform a drive in and they didn't have to hunt on top of us.

[WaterDog]

Steelhead22, I completely understand where your coming from. This is one reason I have little gumption to hunt anymore. At least the rivers I fish I can pick up and find a spot of my own.

A couple of years ago Dad and I were going to hunt a deadend road. I parked the truck in the middle of the road. A hour later we hear what sounds like a vehicle heading toward us. Sure enough, some idiot road hunter is coming and drives right past us. He drove around the truck over some brush and through the ditch. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Just because it's public land doesn't mean common courtesy no longer counts.

forty winks, [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] :tongue:

[WildHawg]

Blocking a public road, even one that dead ends is illegal, as well as discourteous. Driving around is also discourteous, but possibly understandable.
I drive a crew cab Ford, and do not always have the luxury of turning around on your typical logging road without significant effort and risk.
Takes a little room to turn the beast.
I don't know the situation, but if you made an hour hunt on that road before you heard 'em coming, sounds like you were "claiming" a pretty big area to hunt.
Might just be better to find areas off the road to hunt eh?
If this guy had a hunt planned, and you were blocking his take off point on a public road--well, suffice it to say, I mighta been a little miffed at you too.
I've seen people block off 10 miles of road before so they could have it all to themselves.
There are also times when I am hunting new areas, and might not realize that a road dead ends around the corner.
If the road was closed, you still shouldn't block the road or gate--really frustrates game cops, forest service, firefighters, and landowners who may have business behind the gate.
Courtesy works many different ways folks, and every situation has more than one way of looking at it.

[WaterDog]

Thanks for the education. I guess road hunters (those that hunt from the inside of their cab) have the right of way and MUST drive down a road that is a ¼ mile long and turns into a skid road just because they can. Guess getting there first and respecting other peoples space for a couple of hours is too much to ask form all the slobs. Whatever.........

[Bait O' Eggs]

Ya, guys that block the road with their truck really miff me Just because they want to walk the road, doesnt mean I cant drive it

Block a road and find your tires air pressure adjusted :shocked: when you get back to the truck.

Those with duallys even have more air pressure that needs modified

If you dont like company get into some backcountry wilderness.

Waterdog [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[WildHawg]

Gee WaterDog, I thought I liked and respected you when I met you at Newport.
Where did you get that I was ripping on you?
I admitted I didn't know the situation, then proposed a few hypothetical situations in which you may have been wrong--so that you would think a little bit. Clearly you are not willing to look at anyone elses opinion.
Block a road, and you can deal with Roy and I before we've had our coffee. Very unpleasant.
I've been blocked off so many times that now, if I see a truck blocking a road, I think I'll go around 'em just for spite if they have an attitude like you do.
Where do you get off calling me a roadhunter?
Just cause I drive a road doesn't make me a roadhunter.
I have a friend who was wounded in Korea, and can no longer hunt out of the vehicle. ODFW issues him a permit to "roadhunt", and I drive him around and help him find critters. How do you know someone like him didn't drive down that road and turn around after seeing you'd blocked off his only access to a great area/clearcut?
I doubt your psychic.
THIS is truly an issue of hunter ethics, as well as public safety, and you are dead wrong WD.
Respectfully,
Charlie.

[Mello-Yello]

Many years ago, I was hunting some clearcuts below a long ridge road. As most ridge roads do, it dead-ended at the end of the ridge (go figure).

I lived not far from here, and had a good feel for where the elk would be in the morning, and what there behavior would be come sun-up.

One morning, while driving down this road I come around a corner only to find a pickup truck parked at a 45deg angle across the road. One would have a hard time getting a bicycle around it. I was fumed to say the least, as this was a good mile or more from the end of the road (where I'd planned to bail off). I backed my truck a good 1/4 mile to a pull off and parked, grabbed my stuff and started making tracks.

I caught up with the guy within a half mile and as I blew by him, I just commented "Thanks a lot for blocking "Your" road, a$$hole!" He said nothing.

Much later that morning, I'm back up on the road and dragging my tired butt back to my rig. As I near his 'still parked' truck, I notice that all 4 tires are flat. My first thought was, it served him right. I noticed many tire tracks where others had turned around directly behind his truck. When I get to my rig, I find a note on my windshield. It went something like this.

"I apologize for blocking this road. I bedded a herd of elk down here last night and didn't want anyone ruining my morning hunt. I'm off to get help now, have a nice day".

I felt terrible, thinking that he thought I'd flattened his tires. In fact, I walked all around my truck expecting to find some sort of retaliation. I found nothing.

I was later told by someone "in-the-know" that someone had simply pulled his valve-stems, and not damaged his tires. To this day, it still bothers me.

IMHO, this guy at least somewhat redeemed himself by not retaliating. I'm sure others would have just on the assumption that it was me. And, I'm sure he learned a very valuable parking lesson.

Like it or not, we HAVE to share the public land with the public. I've had some hunts ruined, and I'm sure I've probably unintentioanlly ruined a few hunts for others. It's just the way it goes. It's why I always take as much time from work as I can to compensate for the days that things just don't go right.

Arnold Scharzenegger is the governor of California? What a crazy world..............

[steelhead22]

Wild Hawg- I see what your saying here and in this situation if you needed to turn around at that road, there was plenty of room to, and I sure wish these guys had done just that. I try to keep that in mind when I park in these areas just for that reason.

I think I'm having a hard time explaining this "gate" thing. It's really two posts about 4 inches in diameter and a huge piece of a guard rail bolted to it. It really isn't a gate, but a way to block the road without putting down a bunch of gravel. It can't "simply" by unlocked and opened. Does anyone know why they put these in on some roads and mounds of gravel on others?

Also, you're right in the fact that I was trying to "lock up" a place to hunt. That is why I slept so terribly the night before in a tent on a gravel road. Not fun, but it's worth it to get a little space to hunt. I understand the frustration of having your spot "taken", like I posted earlier. I've been there and like I said, this was our 3RD choice to hunt, so I've felt that disappointment when you see that the area you wanted already has someone hunting it. See my post about last years White River hunt. Very similar situation. Group of guys making a drive and we happened to take a stand in the middle of it, difference was, they didn't know we were there and said if they had they wouldn't have made a drive there.The guys last year also said, "Hey look, we'd stop our drive right now if we could, but there's the rest of our group about a half mile away, so we kinda HAVE to walk right into the woods your hunting." I appreciated that very much, and didn't have any problem ending that stand and moving to another. I was a little disappointed, but what are ya' gonna do, right? We wish them well, and good luck on there hunt.

"Might just be better to find areas off the road to hunt eh?" Hey now, take it down a notch.But...

You're definitely right. But you too could also say that to the guys that chose to hunt on top of us, right? Just as we had 1000's of miles of area to take a stand, they too have 1000's of miles of huntable area to make their drive. My point: We were hunting the area and had been all morning long. If anyone needs to find a different area, it wasn't us, it was them. By CHOOSING to make a drive through someone else's hunt, you are incredibly discourteous and irresponsible. Oh yeah, luckily for them, I know what I'm doing out there and didn't pull up on the noise they were making walking down the road. I tell ya what, it sounded just like deer, and since I just "knew" we were the only one's on that dead road, that's all I thought it coulda been. I didn't pull up on them though, even though that grayish coat that guy was wearing sure did look like a deer through the trees. Oh, and no hunter orange to be found. These guys must've been trying to get shot.

I see what your saying, Wild Hawg, but if you could just look at it with COMMON COURTESY in mind, you may look at things differently.

SH22

[steelhead22]

I still see what you all are saying, but you COULDN'T drive down this road, that's why we picked it as a place to hunt. In fact, I can't believe that someone would actually block a "live" road that people could drive down! :shocked: Does that really happen? I've never seen it, but I'm sure somebody out there would do it. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] Oh, and I don't really care how anyone else hunts, I choose not to road hunt, but I know a lot of people do, so we try to be considerate of them by choosing roads the CAN'T hunt. Come to think of it, I would care if someone just drove by me while I was on a stand. They are only there for a second as they drive by, I don't think it would ruin a stand hunt at all. My deal is with the DRIVE. Disturbing a large area, with a large group, right THROUGH someone else's hunt.

One more thing, what the H are you guys thinking if you choose to let the air out of someones tires. You leave them stuck in the woods, without help. WOW! I can't believe you would actually do that and still consider yourself a decent person. But hey, it's your conscience, not mine. Also, do I need to remind you, these are guys with LOADED WEAPONS who might not take too kindly to find you letting the air out of their tires. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] Good thinking BOE, remind me not to hunt with you as you may get me killed.

[ 10-08-2003, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: steelhead22 ]

[Swamp Puppy]

public land is PUBLIC land..and encounters with other hunters in inevitable. however, i think everyone will agree that this is a case of inconsiderate hunters.

i got out to a blocked acccess road yesterday around 3pm with the intention of moving into a spot between some bedding and feeding areas and waiting it out. beyond the gate there are only two roads. one high road that swings across the ridge on the opposite side of the hill..and the low road that moves through a creek bottom and some regrowth. i was down the low road and it was getting to be about 6pm and i had been in place for about 2.5 hours. i could hear elk moving and bugling not far off and i was pretty happy with area around me being unaware to my persence....then i see the first orange vest. followed by another..and another..and then another. all walking right into the area and making more noise than a cavalry division.

realizing that staying where i was any longer was useless, i stood up and walked out to the edge of the road and waved. they waved back and marched right up to me and announced that they had run into my hunting partner down at the base of the road and he informed them that i was up here. they then proceeded to inform me that not far behing them was three other people..non-hunters, just family members, that were coming along for the walk.

disappointed and slightly ****ed off, i tromped off to the enterance and cut up the other high road hoping to get into some kind of position to hunt in the last 30 minutes of light when hear the "parade" moving back down the road behind me..get into their truck..and drive off.

what p***es me off is this.

a) they knew i was hunting a particular spot and even with other options, they still marched an entire group of people literally right on top of me.

b) after that tremedous act of rudeness, they didn't even stay and hunt the area that they ran me out of..they simply walked in at close to last light, ruined the area..and then left. probably to go to another spot and ruin it for some other guy who had put in his time.

i don't think that i "own" a particular spot or that if i park my truck at a gate that the 20,000 acres and two mountain tops beyond the fence becomes mine by divine right.

but if you know that a person is hunting in a particular cut, draw, ridgetop, patch of regrowth, etc.... STAY THE F*** OUT!!!

[ 10-08-2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Mossberg_3.5 ]

[StickFish]

Originally posted by Bait O' Eggs:
Ya, guys that block the road with their truck really miff me Just because they want to walk the road, doesnt mean I cant drive it

Block a road and find your tires air pressure adjusted :shocked: when you get back to the truck.

Those with duallys even have more air pressure that needs modified

If you dont like company get into some backcountry wilderness.

Waterdog [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Man I hope you're kidding. Or I've got lots more to say and do in this respect

[ 10-08-2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: StickFish ]

[WildHawg]

Steelhead22,
I've been in your shoes a number of times too. I take no issue with your post, and would have been mad too. Be careful with the gate thing, though in this case it sounds more like a trail maybe?
Waterdog frustrated me a bit, and my responses were aimed at his post.
Blocking a road is NEVER right, unless you own it--period.

[Bait O' Eggs]

IT WAS A JOKE - if you notice the wink on my post heading you will see I was kidding. It was a shot at Waterdog who never misses jabbing me when the opportunity arises, and waterdog drives a dually truck which is why I mentioned the dually

I still have one thing to say

Waterdog [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[steelhead22]

Oohhhhh, sorry BOE, I feel like a real [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] now. Hope I didn't offend.

WH-I see what you're saying about those dead end roads. I'll make an even more conscious effort to stay out of the way after this post.

This is totally off subject, but does anyone know how to judge how big a bear is by the size of it's tracks. We saw some pretty big ones out there this weekend (big from what I've seen anyway) and was wondering if anyone had a rough estimate as to the size. Just curious. They were about 6-7" wide, maybe that's normal, but they looked HUGE. Then again, maybe it was that I know my .270 is like a BB gun against those things.

[WaterDog]

Wildhawg – guess I didn’t have enough coffee this morning or woke up on the wrong side of the bed. My reply came out harsher than intended. This isn’t like fishing. This is hunting and everyone is carrying guns looking to kill something. I know my abilities (or lack there of) but I don’t know squat about the other guy(s). There are several places that are gated or short spur roads lots of people hunt and if someone is there I move on. Although there is lots of room I have no idea if they are walking the road or in the brush. It is public land and there is lots of it. If someone else is there keep driving. Maybe next week I’ll just park outside of Falls City and see what happens. (Note = joke) Maybe I’ll “hunt” with my SKS too. I’ll keep my eye out for a short ugly fellow that drives, what else, a short bed ford. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[Bubzilla]

I have to say that if I saw a camp at the end of a blocked-off access I wouldn't know what to do. Just a vehicle would be a clear indication that someone was already in the area actually hunting, but a camp could just mean someone had made a very poor choice in camp placement.

The long and the short of it is that you're hunting on public land, and as such you have no more right to exclude others than they you. I think the key to an enjoyable and successful hunt on public lands is to understand and use this to your advantage. In your example, having other hunters out in the area may have caused game to move much later in the day than it would have on its own. Who knows?

It all comes down to this: you can't "call" a spot on public land. Most guys will not run over the top of one another--mostly because it isn't a good way to hunt. However, you can't expect to have an area all to yourself just because you set up camp there. That's just not realistic.

[WildHawg]

Waterdog...you flatter me! "I’ll keep my eye out for a short ugly fellow that drives, what else, a short bed ford."
While I do live very near Falls City, and have actually attempted to hunt Black Rock--I almost fit your description. Only diff's are I'm 6'3, drive a longbed crewcab Ford, and the women actually find me handsome--if not handy!
I don't recommend hangin' around Falls City though--kind of a spooky place. I'll leave it that.

[WaterDog]

Wildhawg, I Think we both know who the short ugly one with the short bed is. :grin: Right Roy? :tongue: I won't comment on Falls City or the handsome comment either.