Shotgun slug question

[Hawg Caller]

O.k. I often hunt the deep dark rain forest, I've been wanting to use the shotgun and slugs,question is can I run slugs with screw in type chokes? If so do I take the choke out or what? and does it make any differance which choke?
O.k. so thats 3 questions.Any help is appreciated.

[GutshotApe]

I've shot several deer with 12 gauge 1 oz. slugs...and one with 00 buckshot. I'd take the screw-in choke tubes out if I were you.
I've shot slugs thru a several different guns with full choke barrels (not screw-in tubes) with no problem but you are probably better off with a straight cylinder bore. I have a Hastings rifled slug barrel with iron sights for my 870...now, that's a brush gun!

[Ragnar]

I'm going to second that GSA. I also have a Hastings fully rifled barrel with the canetalever scope mount, sporting a leupold 1-4x scope on my 870 Super mag. A pop can at 100 yds is not a problem at all.
Though I have never shot the Foster style slugs in a smoothbore, I have heard from people who have used them that they aren't all that accurate. Especially passed 50 yds. or so. With the set up I have, I wouldn't hesitate on a 50 yd. head shot if I had a good rest.
FYI. I shoot the 3" mags with the 1oz. sabot slug. Fourtunately, I don't have to shoot at anything too many times. It really packs a wallup!
Hope this helps.
Ragnar

[Lured In]

WHOA! Maybe I misunderstood GSA, but DO NOT shoot your shotgun without a choke in the barrel! You will likely ruin your threads at best and possibly damage the barrel beyond repair at worst. Most manufacturers that utilize screw in chokes will recommend an IC or Skeet choke for shooting rifled slugs in your smooth barrel.

When in doubt, check with your manufacturer. It will usually be in your owners manual as well. If you don't have that, many of the gun makers have manuals online.

Last year I goofed around with my Benelli and rifled slugs in a smoothbore. 25 yards was great(2"). 50 yards was about an 8" group. I didn't even try at 100. From what I could see the difficulty in getting a good group had less to do with the slugs and more to do with the sighting set up. I was just using the beads on my rib. If you can, look at getting "clip on" open sites for your gun. They just slip onto the barrel rib.

Good luck and check with your gun manufacturer on which choke they recommned.

[Bounty Hunter]

OK, I've got a question for you slug gunners.

I am looking at getting a slug barrel for one of my Remington 870s for elk. I want to get the 3" chamber for the extra wallop, but what about barrel length? Do you guys feel accurate enough with the 20" barrel or should I get a 24-26" barrel for the extra rifling?

I can get the 20 inchers pretty reasonable, but the longer ones seem to be more pricey.

Any opinions?

[KingFisher85]

Yes, never ever shoot a shotgun without the choke tube in. You will mess up your threads if you take the choke out. Don't shoot slugs out of a full choke. It wont do harm at first but lader down the road it will. A mod choke tube is what most people use when deer hunting with a smooth boar with foster type slugs. I think a IC choke puts the slugs out there better.
I've shot dang near every foster type 12 ga slug out there. The one I like is the Winchester 3 inch mag max load. It has muzzle velocity of 1760FPS. Shooting out of a few of my smooth board shotguns, 50 yards was pretty much dead on.

One thing that I have found is if you want the "extra wallop" the 3 inch is not what you want. Federal, Winchester, and Remington all make a 2 ¾ inch sabot that has a muzzle velocity of 1900 FPS and are 325 to 385? gr bullet, has more then enough knock down power behind it too...Can't get that out of a 3 inch. What you can get out of most 3 inch and standerd 2 3/4th in slugs is a 1oz sabot. But then you are talking 3 to 10 inch's of drop at a hundred yards.
I shoot the Federal 2 ¾ max 325gr sabot slug. This load is hot. Will run you 11-15 bucks for 5 rounds but it gets the job done real nice. With this load, deer out there 150 yards, its dead. One of the longest rang sabot out there. Remington makes another that I do really like. The Premier Core Lokt Ultra Bonded Sabot slug. Has a Muzzel velocity of 1900fps and a 385gr sabot slug.
I shot the Premier copper solid sabot slug last year out of my riffled barrel. I got like 2-3 inch grops at 100 yards. But it did have some drop to it. It worked just fine on the deer and coyote :grin:

About the barrel lenght, 21-22 is all you want.

I own a Winchester 1300 with a 22 inch 3 inch mag fully rifled barrel with open sights. With the loads I use, 100 yards is dead on with 2 inch groups.

__________________________________________________
Went back and edited some stuff

[ 10-06-2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: KingFisher85 ]

[Steve Seeger]

Last year was my first year deer hunting. I used a regular smoothbore Remington 870 Express since it was the closest thing to a deer rifle I had. I put some of the clip-on sights on the rib, but they were intended for turkey & I never got them adjusted quite right. They always shot a couple of inches high, & I never had a lot of confidence in the gun. The last day of the season, I saw a forked horn & had a clear shot at 40-50 yards slightly quartering away downhill. The ballistics of the slug shooting downhill, combined with my sights being high to being with, sent the slug sailing over the bucks back & all I have to show is a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, the flattened slug I dug out of the ground, and a long offseason reliving those few seconds. When I visited my family over Christmas, I brought my Grandpa's pre-64 Winchester 94 lever action .30-30 back with me and I'm using that this year.

The moral of the story is that, while it's possible to get a slug gun to shoot well, I think your better off with a "real rifle." (Unless you're in a slug-only area, of course) A used lever action isn't much more than buying a rifled shotgun barrel & the ammo's cheaper than sabots - before hunting season you can usually find it on sale for ~$8-10 / box of 20 & every store has it.

The foster slugs are pretty cheap, easy to find & you can use them in the smoothbore you already have. If you luck out, you might find a gun / ammo brand combination that shoots them well, but they usually don't have rifle-quality accuracy. They also caused rapid lead fouling in my barrel & it doesn't take too many shots before the kick starts wearing me out, especially off the bench. My .30-30 is a lot more comfortable & convenient to shoot all day, which makes a difference when you're practicing to get ready for the season.

I put a Williams FireSight blade & reciever peep on my rifle & replaced the wood stock with a lighter handier plastic one I can bang up, get wet & not worry about. For the peep aperature, I got an adjustable #4 Hunting Disc
from Merit Corporation (http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html). It allows me to keep the peep in wide-open "ghost ring" configuration for quick shots in dark & foggy conditions, or tighten it down to a pinhole with a quick twist if I have time & good lighting. The lever action is also shorter & lighter than my shotgun, so it's easier to snake through the brush & it practically jumps to my shoulder. I think my set-up is about as good as it gets for a brush gun.

I'll also reiterate what the others said: DO NOT fire your gun with no choke in. You can experment w/ what choke works best, just as long as you have something in. I've heard most people say they like improved or modified. Some say cylinder bore tends to be less accurate since the slugs are slightly undersized to prevent damage to tighter chokes, but that could be hearsay. There are rifled chokes, but they're expensive & most of what I've heard says they don't work as well as a fully rifled barrel.

If you're willing to limit yourself to not much beyond bow range, buckshot would likely work wonders. Just about any brand of double-ought would do the trick, and it's as easy to find in the store as anything. My grandpa (the one other than I inherited the .30-30 from) likes to tell the story of how he dropped a deer w/ buckshot at 120 paces, but that's not a shot I would take.

Best of luck, whether you go with slugs or come up w/ another idea!

Steve Seeger

[BlueWater]

Great post Steve! I think you covered it well.

BlueWater.

PS Welcome to the board.

[KingFisher85]

That buckshot should be banned from big game hunting. Every deer I've seen shot with it has gone down crying and I can't stand that sound. Buddy shot a doe a few years ago with 3 inch mag buckshot. We were about 15 yards from her and she went down crying. Seen to many people shoot deer with buckshot and the deer do not go down. I have also found deer that look to have been shot with buckshot that have ran off and died.
Lots of land owners I know will not let people hunt deer on there land with buckshot.
But if you must use the stuff, make sure you use it in a full choke barrel.

[GutshotApe]

OK, I retract what I posted earlier about shooting slugs without a choke tube installed...I've never done it either way thru my barrel that takes tubes.

If you buy a rifled slug barrel I'd get the shorter version...makes for a compact, easy to tote weapon.

I've always shot 2 3/4" one-ounce standard slugs...and can hit beer cans at 50 yds on every shot with the big iron sights. Once drilled a feral cat from a paced 65 yds, square in the brisket, that was found in my millet patch hunting the quail...

And, finally, I agree with KF85 about buckshot. The one and only time I used it the deer was only 20 yds or so away and was hit with 4 pellets...but didn't go down...needed a 2nd shot to stop the hideous bleating noises. The pellets barely penetrated the hide.

[Average Fishin Gal]

I put a 3 inch rifled slug barrel on my Mossberg 5500. One of my grand ideas so I could float down the river and legally shoot deer in the green way. I took it out couple of weekends ago to site her in with Remington 3 inch magnum 1 oz slugs. FRIST SHOT: put gun down to look for obvious damage cause I thought the barrel had burst!!! "It kicks" is a total understatement. Sighting it in with 10 rounds was all I could do. Got it to group about 5 inches at 100 yards. Now I know Im gonna be gun shy on that when it comes time to shoot at a deer...can you say "FLINCH"? I'm gonna get some sabot shells and see what happens with them.

[jokester]

WHOA! Maybe I misunderstood GSA, but DO NOT shoot your shotgun without a choke in the barrel! You will likely ruin your threads at best and possibly damage the barrel beyond repair at worst. Most manufacturers that utilize screw in chokes will recommend an IC or Skeet choke for shooting rifled slugs in your smooth barrel.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I agree...DEFINITELY DO NOT shoot your gun without a choke!! In Southern IL, all they would let us use to hunt deer were shotguns. Just as Lured In mentioned, I've always been told by gunsmiths and manufacturers to use your IC choke to shoot rifled slugs through. Always double check with the manufacturer though before you do! I've got a Beretta A-390 Silver Mallard and I use it for deer hunting in IL every year with the IC.

- jokester

[ 10-06-2003, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: jokester ]

[Hawg Caller]

Thanks guy's,thats what I was after.also any body know of a slug barrell...cheap(as i'm going through divorce)That would be my first choice,for my 870 mag.let me know if theres any around.
Thanks again all for the input.

[Hawg Caller]

Thanks all,
Answered all my questions,now I just need to do some "test" shooting. thanks to a great bunch of people and you got to love this site...thanks Jen.

[Ragnar]

Average Fishing Gal,
Here is my personal experience. This is in NO way the ONLY way to go. Only recommendations and observations.
As for the recoil with any type of fully rifled barrel.....Your shotgun really is no longer a shotgun. It is now a 72(?) caliber rifle. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Yes, I agree those slugs are pretty stout. I can uasually shoot a box of 5 before the flinch factor makes any further shooting senseless for the day. So, 10 shots? Wow! That's more than I care to do in a day.
One thing that may have contributed to the mondo recoil is......Wether or not you were using rifled slugs or sabot slugs. If you were using Foster style lead rifled slugs in a fully rilfed barrel, you may have some major lead fouling in the rifling of your barrel, possibly requiring a gunsmith to look at it. Fully rifled barrels are designed for sabot slugs ONLY.
I'm not trying to chastize here. I'm just concerned for your safety. As I read your earlier post about how you wanted to try some sabot slugs next..etc......I guess that lead me to think that the slugs you started with were in fact not the proper type of slug for that type of barrel.
So, from the stand point of taking a well placed shot instead of many no so well placed "lob-em in there" shots......Personally, I feel I/we owe it to the animal(s) who's life I/we am taking to do it quickly and efficiantly as possible. This is why a pop can group at 50yds. is not acceptable to me. That's just my opinion. I want something better. Ideally, I want one shot-one kill. So I go one step further and put an adjustable scope on my set as well. Now in Washington, some GMUs are opening elk hunting to shotguns shooting slugs. Another application/oportunity for an accurate firearm. Long story short... You don't have to shoot as much with an accurate weapon. But then again, the weapon is only part of the equation. The shooter must perform as well. My goal is to limit or greatly reduce the variables that can inhibit the performance of my weapon or me.
FYI. There are some shoulder pads that can be worn when sighting in your gun that work quite well. I use them. They are fantastic. I'd recommend them to anyone shooting a shot gun w/ a fully rifled barrel regardless of slug style. I hope this helps.

People...Shotgun hunting technology has come leaps and bounds from the good old days when buckshot or Foster style slugs were the only thing out there. So as long as it's legal to do so, make your scattergun as versitile as possible. Maybe this way we can reduce the amount of screaming deer stories. KF85, I know some of your PETA buddies wouldn't really appreciate those (just kidding man) . Seriously though, we need to keep our image in mind here.
I know if someone was after me with gun? I'd want them to use sabot slugs and a fully rifled barrel with scope mounted on top for better accuracy instead of buckshot. This way the job will get done quickly instead of me screaming in pain.
Good luck out there and be safe.
Ragnar

[Steve Seeger]

12 gauge is .729, or, if you're a glutton for punishment, you could go w/ 10 gauge at .775. According to a recoil calulator & Alliant powder 12 gauge reload data I looked up, a 1 oz. (437.5 grains) slug in front of 49 grains of powder at 1690 fps from a 7lb slug gun has a recoil energy of 35 ft. lbs. & a recoil velocity of 18 fps.

Getting away from the details, that's roughly half again more than the good ol' ought-six & on the low end of a .375 H&H magnum. It's only a very slight exaggeration to say that slugs kick like an elephant gun. It's not just a slow push either - perhaps w/ shotshells, but not slugs. One tip I've heard for shooting from the bench is to put a 25 lb. bag of shot between the butt of your gun & your shoulder. I haven't needed to try it since I've been using the .30-30.

In my early post, I may have overstated the power of buckshot. You definitely can't just grab some off the shelf, go out in the woods & blast away. The loads need to be patterned first, & you need to select a proper load. I wouldn't use any size less than 00 (definitely no 4). In 12 gauge I would get a 3" magnum 12 pellet 00 load, or in 10 gauge an 18 pellet 00 load. Remington has hevi-shot buck load now that might be a bit of an improvement over lead.

Once you have your buckshot loads, draw an 8" circle on a piece of paper, or get a paper plate, & find out the maximum range that will put all the pellets in the circle. That's the maximum range to use, & it'll probably be in the 15-30 yard range (i.e. probably a lot closer than most gun hunters want to limit themselves). Be sure to check what the velocity & energy of the pellets will be at that range as well. With round pellets, the velocity drops fast. All that being said, I'll agree w/ that others that buckshot is best kept out of the woods. The home defense gun, however, might be a different story...

Are you mainly interested in using slugs for their "brush busting" capabilities? After my earlier post, I got to thinking (you should all have alarm bells going off in your head now :smile: ) a bit about the notion of brush busting. Most tests I've heard of (using dowel rods & such) show that, while some bullets defect less than others, they all deflect A LOT, even big fat slugs.

So it would seem the primary key to not deflecting is to not hit any brush (seems obvious, but stick with me here). The frontal area of bullet increases with the square of the diameter, so a fat, heavy bullet has proportionally far more area than a thin, lighter one. In the case of 12 gauge vs. 30 cal, it's .417" to .074". That may not mean the slug is more than 5 times more likely to deflect, but it certainly seems the .30 has a better chance to thread the needle. In the extreme case, a 10 gauge slug has over 10 times the frontal area of a .243 (I won't bring the .223 into it in an attempt to avoid that flame war)

Of course, we all know that pouring over numbers is no substitute for real world experience. Unfortunately, most of us have so few chances at big game that it's hard to compile significant data. Furthermore, with brush shots, it can be difficult to even determine with any certainty if the bullet hit a branch. Figuring out the subsequent path after that is mostly a guessing game. In the case of a hit, I doubt many hunters search for clipped branches to see if they had a successful brush busting.

In my mind, trying to shoot through visible brush is akin to shooting at running game - best left to follow-up shots on wounded animals. There's always that unseen gotcha twig, though, so it's nice to have a margin of error, & I've been reconsidering what makes a brush buster.