BF Goodrich or Les Schwaub tires ?

spinner53 · 10-03-2005, 12:30 AM

tis that time again, need new tires for my forerunner. it just gets me around and tows the driftboat to the Wilson n Nestucca.
I currently have some Perreli's on there= real quite but only lasted 30K miles.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

shadman · 10-03-2005, 12:35 AM

How much off road do you do? Mud? Sand? Rocks? Desert? mostly hi-way? I got a set of 31 BFG All Terrains on my xploder and I am very very impressed. I go to eastern OR alot and I have yet to puncture a tire on nthe sharp rocks out there. They do decent in the sand and mud. I actually think its the xplorer that limits my 4x4ing more than the tires. They are fairly quiet and wear extremely well. I have 40,000 on them and they look to be more than 70% left.

spinner53 · 10-03-2005, 02:15 AM

Don't do that much off-road, sometimes banking it on the Wilson, nothing major. I looked at the BFG website and the Radial Long Trail and the Commercial t/a look they should get me over the Wilson pass in light snow or ice ??

HammondSeaRanger · 10-03-2005, 03:32 AM

Les Schwaub .. cant beat the service.

brshooter · 10-03-2005, 04:49 AM

Les Schwab has done so many freeby's for me that I would feel guilty buying tires somewhere else. They have fixed quit a few flats on brand-x tires for no charge.

InBassPursuit · 10-03-2005, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Les Schwab has done so many freeby's for me that I would feel guilty buying tires somewhere else. They have fixed quit a few flats on brand-x tires for no charge.

Same here!

baltz526 · 10-03-2005, 05:33 AM

expect to get 30/40 thousand out of les schwab tires and pay top dollar for them, in most markets, they have run everyone else out of the tire buisness. when you have a monopoly in a market, they get to set the quality and price of the product. and yes all my veihicals have tires bought at les schwab on them. but my wife is riding on tires not bought at less schwab. i'm running toyo m55 tires on my f250 4x4, siped. quiet, good traction, and expensive.

walkersteelhead · 10-03-2005, 05:46 AM

I have BFG's on all my vehiculers. They wear extemely well/ I'm not a big fan of Scwab for a couple of reasons their prices and their service.

jvp · 10-03-2005, 05:50 AM

Goodrich is owned by Michelin and Costco has Michelins at a good price if you have a card.

fishsticks · 10-03-2005, 05:50 AM

I'm running the BFG All-terrains on my Tundra and couldn't be happier. Costco has good prices on the BFG products and they have good service too. My experience with Schwabs has been hit and miss-not so with Costco. So, when I drop large amounts of cash, I go with the sure bet in the service department - Costco. I don't think you would be disappointed with BFG tires.

Mark Vickers · 10-03-2005, 06:28 AM

You can do both. A few years ago, I ordered BFG's through the Wilsonville Les Schwab. I've also ordered Interco tires through them as well.

mike5097 · 10-03-2005, 07:10 AM

Like baltz526, I too run Toyo M55's on my truck.
Best tires I have ever owned.
Check out the Toyo's "Open Country" tires for your 4runner.
You won't be disappointed.

FastActionRodTip · 10-03-2005, 07:20 AM

Michelin LTX MS hands down best SUV tire on the planet...just bought a set

http://www.michelinman.com/catalog/t...ml?source=TCHP

Keeper · 10-03-2005, 07:28 AM

My vote is for Les Schwab or Costco.

LS put a set of new tires on my Explorer during the recall and my rig suddenly had a shimmey(sp). I went back in a week later and they replaced them at no additional charge with a different set of tires.

Nothing like stopping at the nearest Les Schwab when you have a screw sticking out of your sidewall and being back on the road in less than 20min without paying a thing and they smile and say thank you.

ICHTHYDEMON · 10-03-2005, 07:31 AM

Get the Toyo Open Country A/Ts from LS. My wife has some on her S-10 Blazer and they are an excellent tire. They are very quiet,have outstanding wet/snow traction and come with a 50K mile warranty. She currently has about 40K on them and if they don't go to 75-80K I'd be shocked.

JasonsZ06 · 10-03-2005, 08:13 AM

My vote is for the BF Goodrich Comp TA/All Terrain KO's. I have had nothing but great luck and incredible life out of these tires. I'm on my second set after putting 55K on the first (and those only came off because a tire got ruined). My experience with Les Schwab has not been so great. Their comparable tires I had on my truck were very noisy, while the BFG's are very quiet. The life of the Les Schwab tires seemed to be quite a bit less. While the service is supposed to be quick, they cut some corners that I don't like, in their hurry. Alot of them use air impact wrenches to tighten the lug nuts. Then they go back with torque wrenches and re-check them. What I found afterwards is that they're unevenly torqued, with some of them wayyy too tight, and others where they should be. This will cause warpage of your rotors, etc, etc. The tire place I use now only tightens by hand.

Tagster · 10-03-2005, 08:16 AM

I run these on both my trucks-Expedtion gets Open Country AT - 8 ply and the f-250 gets the same, but 10 ply.

Second set for the expy...got 60K miles out of the first. They run upwards of $170...but well worth it.

The service is second to none.

BTW-If they go back and hand torque to spec...what is the difference?

Tag

aye fsh · 10-03-2005, 09:09 AM

I have a '96 powerstroke supercab 4x4 and am currently running BFG all terrains from Costco, first set I've tried. They ran a little over six bills. They are wear warranted to 50 k. Been on there about a year and a half and I will probably never run anything but these tires in the future, very pleased with them.

Prior to these I have ran Schwab tires exclusively, tried wild countrys, did not care for. Have gone through 3 sets of open countrys and only got 30 - 40K out of them. They too ran a little over six bills. They did not wear warrant these tires on my application. I also have M-55's w/ studs that I've run two winters now and they've been great (actually been a couple of years since I've ran them).

I gave schwab the opportunity to be competitive on the BFG's, they were $200 more than Costco, too big a difference for me to swallow.

I have had my share of problems with Schwabs, but to their credit they made good on the most of the stuff I had problems with. Can't help but wonder if they weren't moving so fast if maybe I'd not have had some of the problems I have had.

They installed single lip grease seals on my boat trailer when there's a label right there on the trailer that clearly specifies the correct seal (double lipped w/ a spring ) to use. Ruined the axle which they did end up replacing.

The incident that really soured me on schwabs was they refused to swap my street tires for my old studded tires (wild country's) because the tread was getting down there (there was still an 1/8th inch left and the studs were intact). When I went to do it myself the lug nuts were on there so tight I twisted the metal of the star wrench trying to loosen the first nut. When it did finally go I ended up breaking my ankle, even though I knew it was going to go all of a sudden and tried to be prepared for it. That sure sucked. They do hand torque the nuts, but after they run them on there with the impact wrench that means nothing. Watch sometime and notice how many of the nuts break over the torque wrench without actually moving.

I have felt that I have been treated differently by different stores, so I think there's some variation there.

The big advantage with schwabs is there's a store just about anywhere you might be going here in the PNW, so when you do have a problem they are right there to take care of it, which they do. There are quite a few Costco's too.

Todd Mulrooney

Okie · 10-03-2005, 09:41 AM

I have a Toyota 4 runner and use Schwab tires. 31x10:50 All terain Radial SXT and have done very good on milleage, getting 100,000 miles on them before needing to replace. Rotate them and don't replace them when Schwab tries to sell you new tires, which is almost every time you go in to see them. Almost everytime they don't need to be replaced when they say they do. Just resist the sales talk. You won't have any more trouble with Schwab than you will with any tire dealer. They all want your money.

Chesapeake · 10-03-2005, 10:19 AM

My suggestion would be to buy at Schwab for service and lots of local shops. I just wouldnt buy thier brand tires. Thier compound seems to wear real fast. I own a Dodge 3/4 ton Diesel, Toyota 4 runner, toyota extra cab truck, and used to have a chevy 1/2 ton. Tried schwabs on all 4(slow learner) and only got about half the advertised life. I now run the Toyo open countries on all. The Dodge still only gets 20k out of a 40K tire but it is all towing a 3 horse slant load and Schwab always gives half credit toward the next set. If you get them siped they will last a bit longer and give better wet pavement, and hard pack snow traction.

uhmw · 10-03-2005, 10:21 AM

schwabies best darn local boys tire shop in the nw. I dont care about the tire cause if it falls apart-I know who bends over backward to remedy the problem. They try so I buy.

StinkyH · 10-03-2005, 10:49 AM

Been going to Schwabs for all of my tire needs since my first car and will continue to do so. Top notch service.

Quote:

don't replace them when Schwab tries to sell you new tires, which is almost every time you go in to see them.

Maybe I've been lucky but I've never been pressured by sales folks in there.

shadman · 10-03-2005, 11:05 AM

Like others have said, you can buy the BFG's at Schwabys. My problem with Les Schwab is they totally oversell people on stuff. Especially people who arent in the know. When you go to LS and your front pads are worn out they will adamantly tell you that you not only need pads but new rotors and then they will say that you should replace the calipers. In my 5 years as a Toyota mechanic I might have replaced a caliper 5 times and it was always due to it hanging or being damaged. Also if you call them out for road service with a dead battery because you left your lights on overnight they immediately sell you a new batttery which is not necessary. But they do give good service and they do have a store in every town and you cant go wrong with that.

Mr. Carp · 10-03-2005, 12:58 PM

BFG Mud Terrains would be perfect IMHO.

JasonsZ06 · 10-03-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

I run these on both my trucks-Expedtion gets Open Country AT - 8 ply and the f-250 gets the same, but 10 ply.

Second set for the expy...got 60K miles out of the first. They run upwards of $170...but well worth it.

The service is second to none.

BTW-If they go back and hand torque to spec...what is the difference?

Tag

The difference is, the lug nuts have just been torqued to 160+ lb/ft of torque with the impact wrench, and when they go back with a hand torque wrench, you'll notice that very few if any, of the lug nuts get any tighter. To have uneven torques on the nuts is hard on the rotors. The torque wrench doesn't lower the torque on the ones they overtightened, it only increases the torque on the ones that are looser than the 100 lb/ft or so that most manufacturers recommend. The tire shops that do it correctly use an impact wrench and LIGHTLY run the lugs up to the wheels, and then use a torque wrench to finish them off by hand. There is a difference, whether you understand it or not :smile:

HntnFsh · 10-03-2005, 06:37 PM

Most impacts can be set to adjust the amount of torque its putting on the nut or bolt.Just because they put the nuts on with an impact doesnt even mean they are overtightening.
Every time I watched LS torque my lugnuts its taken a few cranks to get them even and to spec.

Pete · 10-03-2005, 06:49 PM

I am a Schwab fan. Big time. I remember an Easter Sunday, fishing Crooked River when I had 2 flats on my truck. I limped my truck into town, but everything was closed. However, there was a guy in the back room at LS. He said he couldn't sell me tires, since the shop wasn't open, but he found a pair of tires on the discard heap. He mounted them for me and sent me on my way - no charge. That got my attention and I was very grateful. When the Firestones on my Expedition were recalled, I went to Schwab and got some 8-ply tires with the recall check. I got 65,000 miles on those, so when I replaced them, I replaced them with the same tires. When my boat trailer needed tires, I went to LS again. The bias ply trailer tires delaminated after a year and a half of abuse. Guess what? Replaced with radials for free. Sure, the bias plys might have been bad. But they just as easily might have succumbed to my drifting around corners at 85MPH with them (not really, but I'm not easy on them). The other thing that keeps me going back is that they have shops all over the territory I frequent. Try to find another company that has as many locations in the NW.

lost_sailor · 10-03-2005, 07:51 PM

I don't let Les do brake jobs anymore, but I've bought a lot of tires there, and I will again. Toyos will go 50,000 easy. Gotta love the free repairs, rotation, air check, sudden service, etc.

JasonsZ06 · 10-03-2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Most impacts can be set to adjust the amount of torque its putting on the nut or bolt.Just because they put the nuts on with an impact doesnt even mean they are overtightening.
Every time I watched LS torque my lugnuts its taken a few cranks to get them even and to spec.

I know how impact wrenches and torque wrenches work. When it takes a breaker arm with a pipe on it to loosen some of the lugnuts, that does mean they're overtightened. And when you use the torque wrench on them, they're supposed to actually turn a bit, and then click, not just click. I'm not saying every Les Schwabs is like that, or every employee does that, only that that's been my experience.

bassfishingnw · 10-04-2005, 11:50 AM

BF Goodrich Comp TA/All Terrain KO's all the way...I always get them at American's Tire CO...

Mr. Carp · 10-04-2005, 01:35 PM

Jason is correct. 90% of the time they are overtightened. Besides, you can't adjust the torque precisely on an impact gun. Especially those ones that most tire shops use.

Flying Roast Beef · 10-04-2005, 02:04 PM

I had BF Goodrich A/T's on a 4x4 ranger for several years. I'm sure I got 75k out of them. My biggest complaints about them was that they were loud and felt very "hard". That's the only way to describe them. They were great off the pavement but a cupfull of water on the hiway and I had to be careful about traction. Replaced them eventually with wild countrys and loved them too until I sold the truck.

oregonmuley · 10-04-2005, 02:41 PM

OK, so everyone likes the BF Goodrich - I will agree also. I have one other option though, might not be popular option but I am really happy so far. I have an 04' 4Runner Sport with a wacky tire size, Schwab doesn't make this size so was limited. Anyway, if you check tirerack.com and some other tire sites you will see one tire that is always rated really high. Its the Bridgestone Dueler AT-Revo. When looking you need to make sure its the Revo not regular Dueler, I put these on about 6 months ago, they are all that people rave about. ride nice not loud, corner great in the rain, I found out this weekend deer hunting they work great in mud and snow. They are not inexpensive and can be hard to find but you might take a look. Just a thought. Good luck though.
Frank

Penobscot · 10-04-2005, 07:36 PM

I'm bucking the trend. I've been a Les fan for years but lately(last month and 3 years ago)when I bought new tires, I was not impressed with their selection. I have an Xterra and like a traction tire seems simple enough. Their prices are high and their competitors have stepped up their service as a response to Schwab.I have new tires from them now but next time I'm shopping.

spinner53 · 10-04-2005, 11:24 PM

Thanks for all the replies..
If the tq wr clicks before it turns any, they it's over-torqued !.
They do make colored extensions for impact wrenches, supposedly rated for different torque values, I've never used them but see them in the Snap-on and matco catalogs ??
80 ft lbs is the setting I use and I retorque them after 100 miles. ( similar to re-torquing a rotor head after 5 flight hours ) Yes, I do my own tire rotations..

So, are tire warrenties voided if you don't take your rig in for the rotations per the recommended schedue ??

MERLIN · 10-04-2005, 11:34 PM

Les Schwab is Great for service but do not like ther own brand of tires i wore out a set of toyo in 20k and they got me into a set of there wild cats what a mistake that was only got 17k on them that was with tire rotation and all!!! the stock Michelin tires got 37k before i had to get new ones and they cost the same as the toyo's did so next time i go to les schwab i will get the Michelin and not the store brand!!!!

Road Rage · 10-05-2005, 01:49 PM

I've got a set of Toyo Open Country's from Les's Place on my Chebby 2500. They've been great tires. WAY better than the Dueler AT Revos. Those things were cupped and worn out in 20,000 miles. I've got almost 50,000 on these Toyos, and I still have probably another 20,000 to go.

You will find differnt levels of service from one Schwab store to the next. Some stores are company-owned, and have better service, and other are franchise stores. The franchise stores don't seem to as willing to work with you when you have a problem.

I put anywhere from 30,000 to 40,000 miles a year on my truck, (hence my name road rage) and I have yet to find a place with better tire service than Schwab's. I really wish they were open on Sunday sometimes, though.

Boats · 10-05-2005, 02:01 PM

My vote for Schwab!
2 reasons:
(1) Oregon based company!
(2) Service 2nd to none!

ET · 10-05-2005, 08:56 PM

Nothing but good things to say about Les Schwaub....but my most recent set of tires are Michelins from Costco. Just my unprofessional opinion but I believe these Michelin Hydroedge are better than the Toyo 800 Ultra tires I had on before and they are less expensive. Last week one of the Michelins had a leak after 70,000 miles and on my way to Costco the sidewall was damaged. Costco gave me a very generous credit on this very used tire and I purchased a new one for $40!

We are now a split family...Costco on one vehicle, Les Schwaub on the other. Can't argue with Les Schwaub service, but for tire value I like Costco.

SuperPanga · 10-05-2005, 09:45 PM

Might want to check out the DOT code on the tire, the letters give the plant code where and by whom the tires were actually manufactured. There is a web page that lists all tire plants in the world by DOT code. My Les Schwab Open Country tires were made in a Kelly Springfield plant in Kentucky if I recall. Read that Michelin now owns BF Goodrich and Uniroyal tires and that all Michelin/BFG/Uniroyal tire plants were upgraded to produce Michelin quality tires.

Lured In · 10-07-2005, 07:48 AM

Another vote for the Schwabie Open Country A/T. I am on my 6th set of tires purchased from Les. The Open Country's and their previous version have performed awesome for me. I have yet to have a set get less than 50K miles and most are closer to 65K. (4 sets of tires on Grand Cherokee, one on a Toyota Corolla and one set on my 1500 Suburban.)

As far as over-torquing the lugs, I have never had an issue getting my wheels off for break jobs, etc. They may be slightly over spec, but not difficult to get off, even with a standard lug wrench.

SlamminKokes · 10-17-2005, 12:57 PM

I just wanted to inform the people that have mentioned something about Les Schwab brand tires. There is no such thing and the company does not make any tires, they do sell retreads though! But im pretty sure you arent talking about retreads.

Wing Locked · 10-17-2005, 02:00 PM

I bought tires for my wifes 4runner and I ended up getting Sport King, which are made by BFG, but you don't have to pay for the name. 52K miles on them so far and got them at a small shop that does rotations free as well.

The service at Schwab is fantastic, but you end up paying for it.

ryleysmom · 10-17-2005, 06:00 PM

I just bought this weekend some brand new BF Goodrich All Terrain for my Explorer and man do I like them. The drive is so much better.

Lured In · 10-19-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

I just wanted to inform the people that have mentioned something about Les Schwab brand tires. There is no such thing and the company does not make any tires, they do sell retreads though! But im pretty sure you arent talking about retreads.

I'm not sure how many people aren't aware of the fact that Schwab does private branding of other manufacturer's tires.

Private brands are nothing new and include everything from Craftsman and Kenmore to Behr paint and any of tons of other 'brands'. My money goes to Schwab because the sell a good product at a good price with excellent customer service.

Private branding aside, you might be shocked to find out that many of the products you buy are not manufactured by the branding company. Even if that product is exclusive to that company.

Ray S. · 10-19-2005, 08:04 AM

Bf Goodrich All Terrain Best price and pretty good service at Wally's....Yep check it out for yourself
Good tires, good service and best price....
Ray

wilbur1 · 10-21-2005, 07:59 PM

Doesn't Schwaub also sell BF/s. Anyway, on my dully crew cab I usually only get about 30K over about 5 or 6 different brands over the years from Schw. Now I have gone to Toyo brand since it has a 50K prorated mileage warranty; and I just had two put on under warrnty at 30K on tires, and I got a 43% discount under the warranty. I haven't used my calculator to see how Schw determined he 43% since it looked like to much of a discount, but thats what the paper work shows. Schwaub's service is absolutely tops.