Shall we allow dog litters for sale on the hunting board?

[Jennie@ifish]

I have a dilemma. Capt'n Dan wants to be able to offer lab pups here on the board, which is totally fine with me.
The only problem is that if I let one, I have to let all... Or do I?
I have been approached by some big time breeders who would love to post their litters on the board. Is that OK? The only problem is that it could become flooded with pup ads. If that's not a problem, I'd like to know.
Tell me what you'd like, before I make a final decision.
Thanks,
Jen

[ 09-23-2003, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[skein]

I'd like to see it allowed, realizing that if it becomes a problem we may need to stop. If it works, then it's probably a nice service to our community. If it doesn't, we will have a concrete reason for not allowing it.

Of course I'm worried about my wife seeing all those puppy pictures.... :grin:

Skein

[Bait O' Eggs]

I will probably not have the same opinion as most, but a dog is a tool for hunting, a boat is a tool for fishing. If you allow dogs for sale on the hunting board, you should allow boats for sale on the fishing board. Shall we allow guns for sale also on the hunting board since guns are a hunting tool? Shotguns and labs kind of go together, if we allow dogs we should allow at least shotguns.

If I am looking for a boat for sale, I will check the for sale board, If I am looking for a dog I will check the for sale board.

Cap'n Dan is a special case, His running the lab shelter and trying to find homes for labs wouldnt bother me on the hunting board as long the dogs are "free to a good home". :smile:

If we start allowing breeders and dogs for sale on the hunting board we might as make it the dog board. (or create a dog forum)

My opinion is based on not being a bird hunter, (except the occasional grouse that gets in the way ) and the hunting board to me is for hunting large game animals like deer, elk, bear and turkeys in the spring.

I dont click on any of the dog for sale threads anyway so it wouldnt bother me either way you decide.

The above is just my opinion. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[ 09-23-2003, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[fishuntr2]

Pups for sale needs to be located on a "for sale" board. I think it would clog up the hunting board.
Personally, I don't want to wade thru a bunch of dogs for sale ads. My opinion and yes I have 2 labs.

[ 09-23-2003, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: fishuntr2 ]

[Mr. Fisherman]

I don't see a problem with it. Of course I don't see a problem with posting boat adds on the fishing board either. I like to browse the adds and see how different boats are set up and get an idea of market pricing and keep my eyes open for deals that I pass on to my friends that are looking.
Maybe we need very narrow and special boards i.e. Big Game Hunters, WaterFowlers, Upland Game etc but I think it would detract from the whole group use arrangement that makes this place work imho.
If and when I come along a post I don't want to look at I don't open it, no big deal. I have a hard time understanding why people would want to micromanage a public forum. Some people wouldn't be happy if ya hung them with a new rope.
So there it is. I don't mind. Dogs are a part of hunting for those of us who persue birds...

[id. painter]

I think it may help the breeders find good homes for the pups. Private or professional ,, Having a litter is easy,,,, getting good homes for the pups can be tough. id.painter

[Artwo]

We should keep the "For Sale" posts on the For Sale boards and the activity posts on the activity boards.

My $0.02 worth...............

JK

[Lured In]

For simplicities sake, all "pups for sale" adds should be in the ifish classifieds. If someone feels a 'special' need to be able to post it on the hunting board, they can go to Jennie for that, but I can't imagine why that would be the case.

As BOE said, Cap'n Dan is usually not "selling" pups here on the hunting board. He is letting us know about Labs that are now in Lab Rescue. Those dogs are not usually for sale (if I remember right) and as a dedicated lab lover/hunter, Dan is looking for a solid family to place the dog with. In Cap'n Dan's defense, his posts are minimal, like maybe two or three a month related to this topic.

I realize this may open another can of worms for special exceptions and if that's the case, I am certain Dan would understand.

Anyone commercially selling pups, wether selling one or ten pups, should be in the classifieds. Dan is also a breeder and those posts should be posted in the classifieds.

As always Jennie, its your call and we will support you.

[Woody]

Maybe you could start a new forum dedicated to hunting related stuff. This new forum would be for guns and reloading equipment, tents, decoys, and DOGS.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Aren't there enough "Pup Up" adds?

Like BOE says, if free to good home from a shelter, let it go, if charging, go to sale board.

[Norm]

I agree with BOE and GRB, for sale belongs in the fore sale section. Rescued dogs are are fine here on the hunting board. I don't mind the litter pics though .

[Hoosier Daddy]

Let em do it on the classifieds board, but let everyone do it or no one.

[ 09-24-2003, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Hoosier Daddy ]

I think only dogs available for rescue should be posted. There are already enough dogs out there just not enough homes.

[ColdSteel]

I agree that Dans lab rescue dogs should be allowed but the others should be in the classifieds. I also think that if a commercial bredder wants to sell their dogs on this site they should buy an add.

[reeldick]

I tend to side with the group that would let "Rescue Labs" on the hunting board. If you are selling you should post on the sale board. Keep the hunting board for discussion of hunting and not sale items.
Selling dogs on the hunting board defeats the purpose of a sale board.

[Mtn Man]

For sale belong on the classifieds board.....

I don't see anything wrong with the rescue pups going here....

MM

[rockn'reel]

I think Dan should be allowed to post his rescue labs on the hunting board. Most of the time these dogs don't have a price attached (or nominal that allows him to keep up his good work). The rescue labs are basically a non-profit. Besides, I like reading the stories Dan adds to his posts about the dogs. I would expect if he was to sell some of his dogs he would would be responsible and place them on the classified post. This topic is comparing apples to oranges: dan is trying to find good homes for dogs, not trying to keep a business running. If he wants to make a profit or sell a lab at lab price ($300-600) I think he is smart enough and responsible enough to know where those ads belong. I was unhappy to hear about dan not being allowed to place his posts on the hunting board. I would see them either way, but his stories are great and I think he is not trying to decieve anyone.
there are many different ways to approach this; Dan could post these dogs as in a form of a question, What should I do with this lab type way, or you could let the other breeders put their dogs on the hunting board if they are willing to give tham away to a good home (I doubt there would be a problem with keeping the dogs seperate with this second option).
I do have one disagreement though. I don't think of dogs as just a tool for hunting. I believe when I take on the responsibility of owning a dog I owe it to that dog to make his life the best I can. Dogs love to hunt, so they get to do that with me, but they are not like any other tool used in hunting. They form a special bond witht their owner and require special attention. They cannot be put in the safe and pulled out to check the sighting or oiled for use or storage. I know many people don't have the same philosophy as me and are not as interested in dogs as I am, so they skip over those posts. Maybe the best way to do this is have another room setup for the dog and bird enthusiast where they can learn better ways to care or train for their dogs, and let those individuals post litters for sale in their.
Dan does something special forthese animals and does not ask for monetary reimbursement in return. Habitat for humanity is a non-profit, along with other groups who help the less fortunate. They recieve a certain amount of leniency or a tax break, and I think dan should get ifish's equivalent. I know I have not been a member very long, but everyone of his posts has a story about the dog and these dogs seem to usually have a minimal amount of training from him as well. he wants to find good homes for them and makes sure the dogs go to those homes adjusted so the owners don't have second thoughts. I don't think Dan should ever be grouped with other breeders based solely on his actions and should not be treated the same. If others want what he has been allowed to do on this site, then they should have to live up to what he has accomplished. They should join him in rescue labs and try to find homes for less fortunate animals. I have never seen one of his posts on the hunting board which is just selling pups from his litters so others should not be allowed to do that either. I think all those who have received a dog from the rescue lab program should voice their opinion in support of Dan and the work he is doing.
Honestly, if I had the space, time and money you would never see one of Dan's posts again because I would take them all! :smile:

[Jennie@ifish]

I think we all agree that Dan's rescue dogs aren't the problem.
The problem comes from time spent moderating others who might want to take advantage of your board's membership in a different way.
It takes a lot of time to moderate and when rules are sketchy and special rights are awarded to some, it makes it more difficult.
Please understand that this is the problem, not Dan, or the rescue dogs.
Thanks,
Jen

[Kentucky Hog Hunter]

All,

I was recently sent an email by Ifish moderators for promoting a product on a website that was for a truly great cause.

After receiving the message I understood that it was wrong despite the Non-Profit status of the cause and the general good of the cause itself.

I think it would be best if all things for sale go into the classifieds. It is the fair an appropriate thing to do.

Maybe there is a way to differentiate the classifieds to catagorize what it is people are selling.

My 2c.

[STGRule]

Rescue dogs here, for sale in the classifieds.

[SCUTZ ZA]

I think there is a creative solution. What would be wrong with a link that would send those interested to his ad on the For Sale page, when the click on his hunting thread. This could be an option for hunting items/fishing items on there perspective pages. Could be a problem but might be a profitable move, I think it would make money for this site if there was a small fee for doing it. That's my opinion

[ 09-23-2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: SCUTZ ZA ]

[Cool Texan]

Why not set up a separate page for hunting dogs/pups for sale...and charge a nominal placement fee. Could be a way for iFish to make a little money. Rescue dogs get listed for free though.

[Hogback]

Why not? I like reading about pups. If people don't like reading about pups they don't have to. Sounds like a good Idea.

[skein]

It's interesting that the comments lean heavily toward sending them to the classifieds, but the voting weighs just as heavily the other way. How is our Jennie going to handle that? Recount? Weigh the chads? Ask the Supreme Court (or maybe just the Supremes)?

The conundrum continues.... :grin:

Skein

[Flatfish]

I hunt ducks a lot. I would hunt a lot less if it were not for the dog.

The dog is as much a part of the hunt( and in some cases the entire reason I would hunt at all) for me as the company I keep, or the game itself.

Kennels who make a living should not be allowed to sell( for profit day in day out) on Ifish.

Capn Dan is saving dogs that may go to the pound, or worse- a non hunting home. While that statement may sound dramatic, my dog was born to hunt. Has been bred for hundreds of years for hunting. To not work a hunting dog is cruel in my eyes. Especially so if pup was hunted once only to have it taken from him. Nothing makes me happier than watching my dog do his half.

Now I am sure he may send the occasional pup home with a non hunting family. But I have read many of his threads here, and these are working dogs. And advertised as such.

Labs are born with all the skills they need as hunters. They are TRAINED how to act around people and in the house. But they are born understanding fetch. Amazing to watch it come out.

Non hunting breeds can be general classifieds. but hunting dogs belong on the hunting board.

Don'tcha think?

Mark and ( who else?? :smile: ) Jacob the semi famous, loved the world over, hunting is my favorite thing ever dog.

[crabbait]

I agree that rescue dogs are fine here and "For Sale" dogs should go to the classifieds.

[C-lice]

Dogs for sale or "free to good home" should be listed in the classifieds. In my mind, this is where one who is on the market for anything, including a dog, would logically look.

Anyone selling more than 1 (2? 3?) litters per year should contribute funds equivalent to the price of 1 pup to ifish per year.

While I wouldn't mind seeing non-hunting breeds listed for sale, I cannot imagine the breeder expecting to sell many non-hunting pups from a site like this. I don't think we'll see a lot of shar peis or boxers or pomeranians.

[Capin' Dan]

Thanks to all who have supported the rescue and its efforts. I'm sure Jennie and the mods will make the right decisions although all of us are not making it easy on them. After reading all of the post it can really make a person start wandering what is the best thing to do. Speaking for myself and the rescue efforts I would personally like to see them remain on the hunting board. As far as litter listings maybe keep them on the classifieds board.

How would people feel about a gun dog forum where folks could go to get training tips and set up training days and places list dogs and litters. I can't tell you guys how often I get private emails asking about training techniques, asking about health issue's what I have done or would do in some situations. A forum could be a place where all animal lovers go to learn about breds, litters, health (dog), Hunting test, shows ect...
It may be a fun forum.

Just a thought.

Jeannie what do you think. Would it be too hard. Could we set it up on a trial and see if it is worth our trouble or would it clutter your board to much.

Dan!

[Killertraylor]

I though this is why you mods get paid the big bucks - to make tough decisions like "where do the dog for sale threads belong?" :tongue:

I say let Dan do it, and if someone wants to post a thread "dogs for sale on the classifed page" in the hunting forum, without the details, that's fine too.

[Pete]

Originally, the classified ads forums were created because advertising in the discussion forums detracted from the discussion and made it hard to monitor what was and wasn't sold (or given away). If someone is looking for something, they go to the classified forums to find it. If finding a good home for a rescue dog is the objective, more people will see it in the classifieds. Heck, I don't hunt, but I do own a retreiver.

It's a slippery slope, since fishing boats and rods are also as much a part of fishing as dogs are of hunting. If it's being sold or given away, the classifieds is the place for it. I don't think it makes sense to make an exception in this case.

[skein]

My initial comment was to allow both rescue and general for sale dogs on the hunting board, but after reading what the others said I have changed my mind.

Leaving the rescue labs on the hunting board shows good faith with what Cap'n Dan is trying to do, and putting the sale dogs on the classifieds keeps the playing field level for all the others with items for sale.

However, in the case of many of the breeders, it is a business and should be treated as such. Do you have room for other advertisers, like various kennels and breeders? Willie boats doesn't advertise in the classifieds every time they roll a boat off the line, but have instead become paying advertisers on the Ifish website. I'm not really seeing any difference at this point between them and professional breeders.

Thats a real turnaround from my original post, but there's been some thoughtful comments that have changed my thinking.

Skein

[WaterDog]

Like Pete said, when people want to find stuff they go to the classifieds. That is where pups and dogs should be. If your selling or giving away dogs or rescuing them, it belongs in the classifieds.

I also don’t think there needs to another forum for Gun Dogs. Why can’t this stuff be talked about here? It is hunting related. Much like outfitting a boat, training a dog would be on topic.

my 2 cents.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Skein, my thoughts have also matured on the topic after reading others opinions. Interesting topic to get lots of people talking about something that is near and dear to their heart, "mans best friend".

People really love their dogs, heck mine sleeps under the covers on the bed so it doesnt get cold at night My Jack Russell Terrier hunts rats and I dont think Jack Russell terriers should be allowed to be sold on the hunting board. Just because a dog may or may not make a hunting dog, rather it be a tick hound chasing coons, or a lab chasing dead ducks I think they should be in the classified forum. I dont see putting preferential treatment to dogs that fetch dead ducks, over a beagle that might chase a rabbit for a hunter. There are quite a few duck/goose hunters on this forum, but when you allow them to sell their "hunting" dogs, you open up the whole gammit of "hunting" dogs.

We all define hunting in a different way. You couldnt make me sit on a tree stand hunting deer, as I dont think of it as hunting in any form I want to participate in. The lab breed discussed here in my opinion doesnt hunt, broken down to a simplified form, they fetch dead ducks for the shooter. That doesnt make them a hunting dog in my raw definition. They are a glorified fetcher. Now that doesnt mean it isnt an art to train the dog to do all it should to be the best fetcher it can be to help the hunter. If we are going to have dogs for sale on the hunting board, it should be a breed that actually hunts and kills the animal, not just pack the groceries in from the pond.

I am being a bit facetious in the last paragraph so dont get your panties in a bunch. Just another way to look at the situation that has some merit. All dogs off to the classified forum is my revised thinking. I assume some of the dogs thru the shelter make a good hunting dog, I assume some are mediocre hunters at best.

I think the classified board dog threads would get as many hits as the hunting board post anyway.

I hope you understand Dan I love your puppy photos post either way.

[Jennie@ifish]

Weird. I think some people are voting more than once?

[Mojo]

Dan should be able to post about rescue labs here. I think everyone applauds his work, and no one would have too much grief with it.

I do like the idea of a Hunting Dog Forum. I'm having fits with my Springer Pup. (apparently she's smarter than me )

All litters for sale should be on the classified board unless the Dogs Forum is approved.