goose hunting ethics

brshooter · 09-07-2003, 04:47 PM

I haven't hunted waterfowl in quite a few years, but I saw something today that made me sick. We were out salmon fishing at Frenchman's Bar today. Notice a boat down low drop off his anchor and make a run up river. They headed for the slough above the park on the Washington side. They approached slowly and proceded to open fire on flock of geese that were still on the ground. They got two of them. The beached the boat and picked up the geese. They hopped back into the boat and ran down river to where another flock of geese were just at the upper end of the park. The opened fire again and got another goose. They beached, picked it up, and then headed back to where they were anchored.

What's with this? Have things changed in the twenty years since I hunted waterfowl? I didn't think that was legal, let alone ethical. Neither did the boats anchored around me and I know of one boat that had field glassed, got his boat numbers and called it in. Never saw anyone show up though.

Get Bit · 09-07-2003, 07:52 PM

HIGHLY ILLEGAL and unethical

! Thanks brshooter for caring enough to call them in [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] . We just don't need guys like that out there showing the public such a disgraceful display of hunting.

Get Bit

Bait Bucket · 09-07-2003, 08:33 PM

Nope! Nothing has changed. I've been hunting waterfowl for over 45 years and we have had these slops around every year.

[ 09-07-2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Bait Bucket ]

Critr Gitr · 09-07-2003, 08:44 PM

If they were under power when they opened up - big time NO NO - the Feds would love some of that action. If they broke the law - go get em. If they didn't break the law - at least a good talking to was in order - no telling how many non hunters in the other boats suddenly joined the ranks of the anti-hunters that day.

Sat morning I was conversing with some bird watchers at a local public hunt area as I was leaving a pretty dismal goose hunt. All of a sudden I hear a few low moans in the distance and a pair of honkers were heading my way - low and slow. Oh my !! :shocked: , how tempting - :whazzup: - they passed over at around 30 yds - a chip shot. I jokingly asked if they wanted to see either bird up close and personal ........ but alas I let them pass.

The birders totally expected me to drop the pair -I explained to them that hunters are not the crazed blood thirsty killers we are made out to be - and a little more research on their beloved Mr. Audobon would show that he shot nearly everything that flew.

Maybe we hunters should be on the lookout for positive PR opportunities - too bad the guys in the boat weren't thinking along those same lines.

<`))><

Okie · 09-07-2003, 08:47 PM

I was the boat that was looking at the shooters of the geese. I called the coast gaurd and reported it and they had a shock for me. They said there was a special hunt and it was legal. I never heard of such special hunt or that method of hunting has always been illegal in my book so I don't know what is going on. It was really bad sportmanhip. Hunting from a boat like that is against federal law so I don't know.
We were never able to read the number on the boat so could only give a descripton of the boat to the coast gaurd and it looks like they ignored the report.

Flatfish · 09-07-2003, 09:03 PM

If they wanted to gome with birds, why didn't they just buy a couple turkeys each? Would taste better, and save on gas too.

And a side note-

To call these people "Hunters" is not correct. They are outlaws. Poachers. Or plain old crooks. A hunter assumes a role in fair chase. To bomb up to birds that may well eat bread from people and shoot them is not hunting.

Mark and the dog.

1pump · 09-07-2003, 09:06 PM

Special hunt? No way! According to brshooter's post, the guys in the boat were anchored before they cut loose and went after the geese. Sounds like a weird way to go about a "special" hunt.

IMHO, whoever you talked to at the CG was confused about the Sept goose season. The CG isn't in the wildlife business but they should have told you who to call or passed it on.

At any rate, any forward motion caused by the motor of the boat (even if it's shut off) has to cease before you can shoot. Major violation.

Okie · 09-07-2003, 09:50 PM

I have a marine radio on my boat and didn't have a celuar phone so the Coast Gaurd was the only one I could call and tell about the goose shooting. Sometimes the Multnomah sheriff's boat or another patrol boat would have heard the report and investigated it but in this case it looks like the guys got away with it.

It was a shock to me as I couldn't really believe what I was seeing in plan daylight with so many other boats around to see what was going on. Just sorry that I did not get their boat number.

Tilla · 09-08-2003, 08:30 AM

I was out there also. I saw them before the first shots, I watched their second attempt with Bino's. In both cases from where I watched it would be hard to determine whether they were illegal.
The law states that they must not be under power (engine) and any forward momentum from that power must cease.
The first time I saw them they looked like they were anchored (I am not saying they were)in a funny place ie: no movement. The second attempt they may not have fired until they ran aground, this may have been legal (and quite clever) since it would have stopped momentum.
I watched part of the action quite carefully with binoculars and would say it was inconclusive as to whether they were in violation.But I did not follow the first incident that close.
One guy in line said they had OR tags. They shot from the water, this is within the law also. I am not sure trapping the wounded with a fishing net from the WA shore is legit if you only have a Or license.

SlimPickens · 09-08-2003, 09:19 AM

Hunters like these put all of our hunting priviledges at stake from the bad PR. Unethical hunting just puts a sour taste in the mouths of non-hunters. They join PETA instead of OHA.

Put the pressure on hunters that do this to NOT do it. There's plenty of game to be had out there.

I've witnessed hunters shooting honkers off the lawns of peoples house's along the Rogue during the Sept. hunt. Not good!

WaterDog · 09-08-2003, 10:30 AM

I called in similar situation this winter at the fishery. Couple of guys in an boat would run up on some geese, cut the motor, once they were drifting, boom! OSP said it was legal. OK fine but at least they should have been fined for a saftey violation since they were on the Oregon side of the river shooting toward the freeway!!!

We left Frenchman's around 2:30 and there was a little 12 foot aluminum boat drifting around the mouth of the Willamette with three guys it shotgun at the ready. What happened to ethics? :depressed:

Dr Strangelove · 09-08-2003, 02:28 PM

Listen up. Just because one doesn't like hunting or think that it should be done out of the public eye does not make it illegal or even unethical to hunt out of a boat that has stopped forward progress from the engine. Beaching or dropping into reverse to stop is within the letter of the law. There is no rule that you have to kill game from a camped camoflauged position, or even on the wing. That's why in Montana they call the activity you described as blast n' cast. Maybe unsporting - subjective call; but given an early season of less than one week, it's better than the moral equivalent of snagging salmon. Its for meat after all. You don't catch and release waterfowl. You make sure your cripples are dead quick. And to the friend of the bird watcher's, your conscience got in the way of good table fare. And no, that was not me in the boat. I got skunked blind hunting for the same birds lower in the river.

[ 09-08-2003, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Dr Strangelove ]

Bill Monroe · 09-08-2003, 02:51 PM

The rules are different for hunting than fishing. State laws apply (and licensing) on each side of the line, roughly down the middle of the mainstem in most places...can't hunt close to the washington shore with an oregon license. Of course, they may have had non-res licenses...

Tilla · 09-08-2003, 03:46 PM

I am not sure about the line down the center Bill. I am trying to remember the source of the info.

Tilla · 09-08-2003, 03:59 PM

Bill, your right,
According to Scatt Nelson at ODFW it is the center of the shipping channel that separates the border. (All you need is your 1883 navigational map!)

Killertraylor · 09-12-2003, 11:00 PM

I'm with Dr. Strangelove - I've never hunted geese like this from a boat, but I'm not quite sure what all the hubbub is about? Maybe I didn't pick something up from the first post, but what is the problem if they cut power and weren't moving forward anymore?

I do agree it's unsporting to shoot them on the ground, but not "unethical" or "illegal". I don't quite understand how shooting geese from a boat gives hunters a worse image to "anti-hunters" than blasting a limit from a blind? If I'm missing something, I'm sure you guys will help me out.

I saw a bunch of geese on the shore while out anchor fishing last week and the thought crossed my mind to bring the shotgun next time. Then I got to thinking - how good is a goose going to taste after sitting in 90 degree heat until I'm done fishing - I sure as heck am not going to put one in my fishbox!

steelhead22 · 09-12-2003, 11:53 PM

I'm wondering what everyone is freakin' out about too? I've never hunted for geese or ducks like this, but I have friends that do. I've found them in the boat before, parked the boat and then jumped them and I've jump shot ducks and geese on foot many times. We don't shoot them while they are on the water, but it's kind of the same idea. Find a group, sneak up on them, wait for them to jump, BANG! I've also floated many small rivers in our 12' aluminum for ducks and geese, it's just the same as jumpshooting, except your in a boat. Am I an unethical hunter? I have never thought so.

This happens every single Early Goose season. Fishermen start hearing the BANG, and call the cops. I've been checked 4 or 5 times in one day by the OSP because fishermen on the Columbia were calling the cops on us. Every time the cop would be like, "I know you're legal and doing nothing wrong, they just don't know what they're talking about." He said you wouldn't believe the number of calls they get the first day of early goose. It's just like this post, jumping the gun before you have the info.
It sounds like most of you think hunters should not be SEEN by the public. Why is shooting a goose bad PR, why does killing a goose make me a crook? Seriosly, I need to compile some video of you guys reaching for you little wooden bat and then beating your fish over the head with it. You better hide that, make sure nobody can see you, we wouldn't want any bad press, right. TONIGHT ON THE 11 O'CLOCK NEWS: Fishermen clubbing a salmon over the head with a wooden bat. Riiiiiiiiight.

Look, if these guys were breaking the law, they're idiots and you are right about that. But let's not start calling people crooks and saying that hunting from a boat is unethical, because it's not. Furthermore, hunters don't need to hide the fact that we are hunters, or hide our sport because we are worried about bad PR. Give me a break, please spare me that song and dance. As a hunter, I guess I just feel like I'm taking some friendly fire here, and the post isn't even about me. Chill out, read the regs. and please stay save.

[ 09-12-2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: steelhead22 ]

Gooseman · 09-13-2003, 09:03 AM

Saw something similar yesterday in the gorge by Beacon rock. A guide's boat with 2 other passengers back troll past us and then slowly heads towards the Washington shoreline. Next thing you know, 9 shots ring out & the birds start flying. They did this same tactic several times right in front of the opening to Beacon rock state park. Glad to say, they did chase down all of their cripples.
Since the guide only had Oregon tags on his boat, and they shot the geese on the Washington side, would this be worth the phone call?

steelhead22 · 09-13-2003, 09:47 AM

I think it would be worth the call, but only after getting all the info. first. As stated above the "line" the separates Oregon and Washington is different than it is when fishing. I don't know anything about Washington season, or even if they have an early goose season? Maybe we ought to look it up in the Washington regs. first. I also, doubt they had Washington hunting licenses. So, IMHO, it may be worth a call; if you know they are breaking the law then I'd go for it, but if you're not sure, I'd get some more info first so you're not calling the cops on completely legal hunters.