Side arms OK'd for Oregon bowhunters

[2LEYS]

Side arms OK'd for Oregon bowhunters

Young hunter-lobbyist's proposal prompts state to reverse
a hunting law that made pistols illegal to carry by archers

By Mark Freeman
Medford Mail Tribune — Aug. 15, 2003


Bowhunters: Are you armed if a big cat decides to attack?

MEDFORD, Ore. — For the past two years, bowhunter Jerod Broadfoot has placed protecting his own neck above conforming to state hunting laws.

The Salem, Ore.-area man routinely carries a 9 mm pistol while bowhunting deer and elk in eastern Oregon, in violation of hunting rules banning the carrying of side arms while archery hunting.

With the cougars and bears so plentiful, he says he needs — and deserves — the right to such firepower to survive any potential encounter with a bear or cougar.

"Without it, you've got just one shot with a stick," said Broadfoot, a 23-year-old political lobbyist.

"When you put yourself in that situation, you put yourself on the bottom of the food chain."

Broadfoot will remain atop the food chain this fall. But this time, he'll do it legally.

At Broadfoot's behest, the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission recently suspended its rules that ban the carrying of weapons like pistols and rifles during specialized hunts, such as bow and muzzleloader hunts.

Though the change allows bowhunters to carry side arms, it remains illegal to use a pistol or rifle to kill an animal in a bow or muzzleloader hunt.

“ It's really the cats that are the concern. With the numbers of them out there, we bowhunters are having a lot of close calls. ”
— Jerod Broadfoot

Those who use a pistol in what police agree is a self-defense situation do not face any charges.

The decision came after the Oregon Attorney General's Office agreed with Broadfoot's claims that a 1995 state law strips the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife's previous authority to enact lesser "administrative rules" that restrict gun possession.

"State law trumps administrative rules," Broadfoot said.

The change also applies to adults who heretofore were banned from carrying weapons while assisting teens in special youth hunts, as well as furbearers during the pursuit season with dogs for bobcat and other species.

State DFW leaders will comb through all their hunting seasons in search of all similar rules and strike them, said Ron Anglin, the agency's wildlife division administrator.

The side arms ban began in the mid-1980s over concerns that a small percentage of archery tag-holders used guns to kill their quarry. It since became commonplace in specialized big-game seasons as an extra tool to curb poaching.

Capt. Cynthia Kok of the Oregon State Police said it takes away one tool in troopers' enforcement arsenal, but it won't inevitably lead to more illegal kills.

"Our feeling is that the bad actor is going to do something illegally anyway," Kok says. "Ethical hunters will be in possession of that weapon for ethical reasons — protection."

Bowhunting advocate Don Pritchett of Medford concurs.

Pritchett, who owns Dew Claw Archery Supplies, said bowhunters hiking stealthily through Oregon's woods can encounter circumstances where an arrow can be too small to hide behind.

"You never know what you're going to run into, like a pot field or a cougar," Pritchett says.

"But it's really the cats that are the concern. With the numbers of them out there, we bowhunters are having a lot of close calls."

Broadfoot certainly agrees.

The product of a Hermiston, Ore., logging family, he's hunted northeastern Oregon's deer and elk with a bow since age 13.


Often, he hikes to treestands far before sunrise so he can climb into his stand and let his scent disperse before first light. When hiking out, he's often seen bear or cougar prints following his path into the woods.

Two years ago, he started bringing his gun.

"Now, when I walk into a stand in the dark, it's in my hand," Broadfoot says. "I got a bow and flashlight in one, and a pistol in the other.

"When you're by yourself, it's a big concern," he said.

Broadfoot found he wasn't alone. A lobbyist for Pac/West Communications in Wilsonville, Ore., two of his clients — Safari Club International and Oregon Gun Owners — also took issue with the state DFW's gun-possession bans.

Researching the issues, Broadfoot found the early prohibitions were legal. But the 1995 Oregon Legislature passed a state "pre-emption" law keeping it only the Legislature's authority to regulate the sale, transfer, ownership, transportation … and possession of firearms.

"We didn't feel (the ODFW) had the authority," he said.

Broadfoot wrote a three-page summary of the issues, and sent it to Anglin in June. Anglin asked for the attorney general's opinion, which concurred. That led to the change, in which the commission adopted an emergency rule stripping those gun-possession rules from the books.

Anglin says the ODFW and the Oregon State Police will be looking at ways of monitoring any impacts of the change.

This decision could become the status-quo indefinitely, since the commission did not ask Anglin to seek a way to make the old prohibitions legal.

"Unless the commission tells us to do something, we wouldn't take any action," Anglin said.

Broadfoot said he's happy Oregon's 600,000 big-game hunters will be able to decide for themselves whether a sidearm is necessary.

Broadfoot certainly will continue to carry his pistol, and he hopes never to need it.

"I've not come face-to-face with a bear or cougar, or there would be a dead one in front of me," he said.

[GutshotApe]

For the past two years, bowhunter Jerod Broadfoot has placed protecting his own neck above conforming to state hunting laws.

The Salem, Ore.-area man routinely carries a 9 mm pistol while bowhunting deer and elk in eastern Oregon, in violation of hunting rules banning the carrying of side arms while archery hunting.

"I've not come face-to-face with a bear or cougar, or there would be a dead one in front of me," he said.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Although I admire young Mr.Broadfoot's efforts to change rules he didn't agree with, I do not admire his blatant disregard for the law...or his 'tude problem with large predators (implies he'd kill any bear or cougar he encountered).

He admitted that for years he broke a law he didn't agree with (but broke that law surreptitously, not as an open act of "civil disobedience")...yet at the same time he actively worked the legislature in Salem, representing hunters on other issues...telling the legislators what "we" think.

Mr. Broadfoot does not represent me.

[Myles]

GSA, do you ever speed, fudge on a yellow light, make a copy of a CD?? Everyone decides at some point what laws they choose to break. If you feel that your life may be in danger you need to make a choice, possibly die, or break the law and face the consequences.
I hunt alone most of the time, Ive never tried it but but I doubt that shooting three arrows in succession would bring help like three gunshots could. Since being stalked by a cougar I too have on occasion carried a sidearm.

I hope this discussion stops here, or gets moved to the "argument" board (LIG), there's too much good stuff on this board for this "he said, she said" stuff [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

13 days to go

myles

[willametteriveroutlaw]

I hunt with jerod every fall (geese, deer, ducks). He also used to be my roomate, hes a good guy but very opinionated. If your carrying tags for a bear or cougar.. To say that you would shoot one on sight isn't an irrational statement. He broke the law, but I can understand his worries. Frankly, who here hasn't broke a law or 2 on there day.
GSA,
If your not a member of SCI or donate to the oregon cougar bear coalition (a predator control group) then he doesn't represent you.

Jerod is the guy who spearheads a bill every session to reinstate hunting with hounds and bait. Hopefully one day he'll succeed.

[ 08-17-2003, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: willametteriveroutlaw ]

[GutshotApe]

WRO - Well, sounds like you know him better than me...although he & I are acquainted. I got to know him when he was with Oregon Sportsman's Defense Fund, Inc. He does seem like a nice enough, if opinionated, guy (who isn't opinionated? ). I just have a problem with people who announce they've violated an unpopular law, after the fact, when it's "safe" to do so...and I have to wonder what he was thinking to do so publicly. A lobbyist's reputation for honesty & integrity is of critical importence...to be effective, the people he tries to influence must believe he is honest and law abiding...and not just another "scofflaw" hunter like many non-hunters consider all hunters to be.

[C-lice]

I guess this means a "sidearm" could be a scoped, bolt action .30-06 (or something similar). I wonder if this rule also will apply to carrying a centerfire rifle during elk seasons for which one doesn't have a valid, unused elk tag? Seems like it would have to.

I'm kinda torn on this one--right to bear arms vs. limiting illegal taking of game. I'm a lot less worried about a bowhunter who carries a pistol than I am some guy who "hunts" bow season, Cascade season, and first and second coast bull seasons (with maybe a December cow hunt thrown in) with his '06 because he's got an unused bear tag.

[Gun Rod Bow]

I actually agree with GSA on this one :whazzup:

Hunters, especially bow hunters claim to do so to be closer to nature. I don't advocate hunting Grizzlies with a switch, but, I think you can statistically prove beyond doubt that your safety is in more danger driving to and from the woods, and for sure climbing in and out of a tree than from predator attack.

One reason I like archery season, is I have a lower chance of having a horse shot out from under me.

I prefer no sidearms for archers, and would vote that way. Second ammendment rights are important, but so are hunting rights. Hunters have an obligation to be, and appear as ethical sportsman. If you chose archery, I think you can chose to leave your gun at home. I would like to "lobby" to reverse this one.

[2LEYS]

I have always thought that you should be able to carry a pistol during bow season. I havn't bow hunted yet, (will start next year) but what would you do if a ****ed off rutting bull charges you after you hit him with an arrow? Probably won't happen but you never know. I have no problem with them limiting what you carry, though. Maybe have them say that you can only carry a pistol with no scope and no longer than a 4 inch barrel or something. That would only make it legal to carry a self defense weapon.

[pdxkevin]

I hunt to feed my family not the cougar's family. Nothing loosens your bowels faster than the crystal clear realization out in the middle of nowhere, you are actively being stalked as a food source.

Sure you can carry a can of spray seasoning.... hopefully it isn't a cat or bear that likes cajun spices!

[Bait O' Eggs]

but what would you do if a ****ed off rutting bull charges you after you hit him with an arrow?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">RUN :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:


I am against this law change. To many outlaws amonst us to allow people to carry a pistol while bow hunting. I am not worried about a cougar stalking me, and if one does I guess I had better make that first shot count. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] A risk I take packing a bow. Of course I go backpacking and take nothing but a pocket knife so I guess a compound bow and carbon shaft would be like modern technology above and beyond a 3 inch folding blade.

I have heard of game wardens bugling bow hunters in with their bow stapped to their back and a pistol in their hands when they came into sight. All this while pistols are illegal, so I guess there are those that will play by the rules, and those that will cheat no matter what the law says. Might as well make the rules so if the outlaws get caught with the pistol they at least get a ticket.

[Big Willie]

Hmmm...this is a tough one. We as archers chose to hunt with a bow, therefore putting ourselves at risk with the big kitties. I too have carried my pistol, usually after having been in an area where it's obvious there is a cat around...stumbling onto thier fresh kill. For some reason it made me feel safer. Honestly though, I don't think it would make a difference.

As far as unethical hunters using the pistol instead of the bow? Well, personally, I am way more accurate with my bow out to 40 yards than my 9mm. Also, I'm sure any State Game officer can tell the diff between a gunshot kill and a broadhead.

[Tilla]

I am not sure where I am on this one. I enjoy bow hunting because of the obvious. (I'll leave it at that)
But one thing to be concerned about is the cats. I have met those who have encountered them and heard their tales.
Most of the guys I hunt with and camps nearby have heard that "Lincoln Mercury" scream reverberate though the canyon as we slip into the darkness in the morning to our stands. We think about it every morning as we separate.
I don't think anyone would violate the law, but I don't ask to see what's in everyone pack either.

[tailchaser]

I'm glad to see this law changed, but am also worried about illegal hunting because of it. However, the poachers will always be poachers and we can't make laws for abiding citizens because of a few bad apples in society.

I'm also one of those renegade bowhunters who would occassionally pack a 9mm handgun depending on where I was hunting. I only started doing this after two of my friends where rushed by a large male cougar during bowseason. They each took a quick fling and ran for thier lives. Amazingly one of the arrows hit him between the eyes and killed him instantly from 10 yards. The reason I did it was it would be easier to tell my wife I got a ticket for packing a handgun than an officer telling my wife I wouldn't be coming home. The chances may be slim, but they are there. Ignoring that can cost you your life.

That being said, I'm glad they changed this law and it'll give me piece of mind with packing protection.

tc

[Norm]

I don't carry a firearm while "backpacking", or while "bowhunting". If I feel the need to carry a gun, I'll start rifle hunting. How many people have been killed by bear or couger in Oregon the last 20 years . I think it will lead to more poaching and problems. No offense to anyone on this board, but IMO, If your afraid to be in the woods with just your bow, stick to rifle season.

[ 08-18-2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Norm ]

[tailchaser]

Good to hear you don't while "backing??" Anyhow, have people been attacked by cougars?? Yes they have. I know of one three years ago in John Day while cow calling during bow season. I'm not saying you have to pack a gun while bowhunting and it's your right. I have the same one to choose to pack one. To say I need to stick to rifle hunting if I want the option shows your intelligence on the matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with rifle hunting or bowhunting. It's merely insurance that I'll come home from my trip. Then again if you hunt behind your house you probably don't encounter the same situations I do 18 miles from the nearest road. A hungry kitty is well within reason.

tc

[gofishoregon]

I for one am glad to hear about the new change. It was always my contention that the law was not valid, either a first ammendment issue, or a lack of authority on the game comission to regulate the right to bear arms. The main reason I have carried my Colt45, concealed, is for safety. I am always hunting alone and miles into the woods on foot. I have had unnerving encounters with bears while hunting. So far no cougars, at least none that I have seen. It has never crossed my mind to use my handgun to kill a big game animal. If there those out there that want to hunt illegally they are going to do it regardless of this law change or not.

By the way, does anybody know if there is any information on the rules change on a government website. Not that I don't believe the intial post or Medford paper. I would just like to see for myself before I go into the woods packing un-concealed.

[Fish Slapper]

Wow, this is great news I just wishd that Washington would wake up and follow suit. I know I would feel alot better with a hand gun sneaking through the woods during bow season or when I am set up calling!

[Uglygreen]

Hey - I dont bowhunt and have no opinion on taking your pistol into the woods with your bow, but to say he (Mr. Broadfoot) intentionally broke the law is silly.

The administrative rule was ILLEGAL and ODFW broke the LAW by makeing and/or enforcing it.

YOU cant BREAK a law (administrative rule) that is ILLEGAL to begin with.

Good Job Mr. Broadfoot!

UG

[MarlinMark]

I don't have to be "attacked", just stalked is enough for me. I don't want to be the first "attack" since '90.

Mark

[GutshotApe]

The rule may have been beyond the legal authority of ODFW...but it was a good idea...just as the prohibition on "non-hunters" packing centerfire rifles in deer/elk country during deer/elk season without a tag was a good idea.

I hope I'm wrong but it seems likely there will be more archers wounded or killed by accidental self-inflicted handgun wounds than the number of archers who defend themselves from cougar attacks with handguns.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Well,

Twice in one day agreeing with GSA. Something like 80% of archery injuries involve climbing in and out of trees. Some cluck will shoot his foot off. I guarantee there will be an increase in unlawful use of firearms to take game during archery season, and we will all have to start spending time hunting down gun shots and turning in lawbreakers instead of hunting.

UG, you just like anybody who takes a slap at "Big Brother", you rebel. :shocked:

[Norm]

Originally posted by Tailchaser:
To say I need to stick to rifle hunting if I want the option shows your intelligence on the matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with rifle hunting or bowhunting. It's merely insurance that I'll come home from my trip. Then again if you hunt behind your house you probably don't encounter the same situations I do 18 miles from the nearest road. A hungry kitty is well within reason.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">


I should have added this to my first post, but I'm a bit slow .

The real statistics.

"From 1890 to this date 18 attacks involving human fatalities in the United States and Canada have resulted 19 deaths. Of these, 13 were children, from one 3-year-old to one 18-year-old high school student." From 1990 to now, "0" attacks have been reported in Oregon.

To read more visit

http://www.frii.com/~mytymyk/lions/attackso.html
http://www.frii.com/~mytymyk/lions/intro.htm

[ 08-18-2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Norm ]

[Crashin' Bait]

Here ya go, gofishoregon. It's towards the bottom of the page.

ODFW News Release 8/8/03

Atleast, legally, we have a choice now. IMHO, the law breakers are going to use a firearm regardless of this ruling.

[tailchaser]

Sorry Norm, I can't believe everything that is published. Almost like believing a politician. I've seen the pictures of the cougs killed and the scars they left on people. All happened in Oregon. One of which you can see the many bullet holes in the cat's side from the handgun he had to kill him with. It's good to see that ODFW enforces it's own rules as well and I hope no poachers use this to thier advantage.

tc

[XXL]

Question: Does this mean that bear hunters will be able to hunt during deer and elk seasons without an unused deer or elk tag for that area on your person??? Does anyone know if that decision was also an administrative rule or is it actually in statute? I think that that particular regulation is unreasonable though the intent may be admirable....to keep poachers and "group hunters" from harvesting game unethically/illegally.
XXL

[dla]

I just saw this old thread.

In July of 2000 I contacted ODFW and questioned their authority to prohibit sidearms during bow season. I specifically pointed out the State preemption law passed in 1995. They dug in their heals. I then bugged the OSP and they dug in their heals. I then asked for an opinion from the State Attorney Generals office - they wouldn't issue an official opinion, but sided with the ODFW and OSP. I was amazed at their reading comprehension skills and blamed it on public education.

It is good to see now that the state AG, OSP and ODFW are obeying the law. I wonder if they've gone back and expunged the records of folks cited/convicted from 1995 onward?

Now I'm wondering how this bow season has been. Has anybody heard of any animals taken where the "hunter"(I use that term loosely) shot the animal with a pistol and then tried to push an arrow through to make it look legit?

-Don