Hevi Shot

[Gun Rod Bow]

I'm getting all the info together to develop some hand loads using Hevi-Shot. I ordered a book from Balistic Specialties today.

I plan to develop a 2 3/4" shell, probably 1 1/4oz with #5 and #6 shot for ducks and little geese. I'll probably do a #2 and #4 load in 1 1/2 oz in a 3" case for "rhino rollers".

I want to keep the shot small (high pellet count) and velocities high (1350-1400fps). Back in the old days of shooting lead I found that smaller shot (#4 nickel plated lead) was devastating in a 4 1/4 dram, 1 3/8 oz, 2 3/4" shell.

I tried one box of the factory loaded Hevi-Shot at the end of season last year...it was just like the old days...dishrags at 40 yds...no flop...no wiggle.

Anyone out there hand loading this stuff?

What do you have to do to convince a Game Cop that you are using non toxic shot in a hand load?

GRB

[Miss B Haven]

GRB- Is that stuff ferrous? Lead sure isn't. If it is, just take a magnet with ya and show him the shell is magnetic. :whazzup:

[Gun Rod Bow]

You Know...I was assuming in was non-magnetic (non ferrous) because I assumed it was bismuth based, but I just went back to their website and see that it is actually "tungsten, iron, and nickel". Therfore it should be magnetic and easy to verify in the field. I will confirm.

Their energy to mass ratio stuff is very interesting. To cut to the chase it means that you will have same weight from a #5 Hevi as a #1 steel (my prefered steel load). So pellet count will be like 3-4X. More density, more hits, same weight in smaller surface area=better penetration.

I did some math on components and it stil is going to come real close to $2.00 per round. Not cheap.

But as they used to say in the pigeon ring, "the shells are the cheap part of this game son"

[Rauly]

I didn't think anyone in the west knew about pigeon shoots. Man o Man were they fun.

Rauly

[Miss B Haven]

GRB- it will depend on the iron content. Stainless steel is somewhat magnetic or not depending on the grade. 316 is not (higher nickel), 303 is detectably magnetic. :smile:

[skein]

Don't confuse it with bismuth, though. It's not for the older shotguns. I wish I could shoot it in my Model 12, but I can't - it's too hard and will wipe out the barrel.

Did you know that some guys from Sweet Home invented that stuff? They did good!

Skein

[Flatfish]

Same as lead on the critter. For really long range( much longer than I can shoot, but I know folks who can. So I offer the advice. ), keep the velocity around 1150( pretty close to the speed of sound). Leads are different than with the 1350-1400fps category stuff. But long range patterns usually don't do well if they have to pass thru the sound barrier.

We used Bismuth and Federal's Tungsten on ducks. Up to 30 yards, maybe 35, steel kills as well as the expensive stuff. I see it being useful at the end of the season when the ducks are not working well. But as long as I have fresh redlegs, I shoot steel.

Geese get the spendy shot. Although I have some wonderful reports of Ts killing them very dead at short range. But patterns with T shot are thin past 30 yards, which is about as close as I can get to a good bird during season. So I shoot bismuth cause I have several boxes left.

Who offers reloading info? I gather it will require steel wads, but the powder is the ????

Go get um.

Mark and the 2 3/4" dove and rhino dog.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Rauly,

It may surprise you but there are still a few rings around the west, not in Oregon. Mostly CA and NV. The whole sport has died off in the past 5 yrs. They even shut down Dogwood a few yrs ago :depressed: The big shoots are mostly back east.

Skein,

I actually had some chats with those boys a couple years ago. I'm familiar with them. They are still manufacturing in your town but keep VERY low profile.

Flatty,

It is actually heavier than lead. I think on ducks a #6 Hevi load in 1 1/4 oz will work very well. Density should allow a little more open choke (less miss).

There are special wads, like with steel that eliminate direct contact with the bores.

I ordered a Loading Manual specifically for Hevi from Balistic Specialties.

Seems their pattern characteristics are similar to nickel plated lead, (heavy but hard and uniform). Apparently they set a new record for 40 yd density at some national turkey shoot thing.

It is a given that higher velocities generally mean looser patterns at range for a number of reasons (higher velocity will deform pellets more, don't fly as good as really round ones) But, those factors can be compensated with barrel work and choke selection. I will do what it takes to get acceptable patterns at 40+ yards with as high velocity as I can get. Velocity is what does the damage. I have had very poor results with T's. I've been pretty happy with Remington Nitro Steel 3" 1 1/8oz 1400 fps loads for (little) geese to 50 yds. Just lookin for a better load. Never heard the speed of sound thing. :whazzup:

One problem with switching back and forth from steel to others is down range speed differences (lead). So I want to try staying with 1 speed.

In my sproting clays days I stayed with 1 speed and changed shot size and choke only.

[bigshark]

Gun Rod Bow
I loaded some for a while but there are a few things you should know. First, in my case it turned out to be too much work. That said, when your having fun, who says its work? Actually, I couldn't really save enough to make loading worth it. At "club" price for factory loads, versus componets, in this case the shot price plus shipping costs from Minn. made little economic sense. If I remember right, it was like a nickel per shot cheaper. Regarding wads etc. there are kevlar wraps that are not too expensive. You might give them a try. I have not as yet done so but think that it might give me some comfort when aand if using the stuff in a favorite O/U.
Second heads up, please don't try to load shot above 7 1/2 without weighing each drop. My Possie
drops #6s OK but thats it. I had a heck of a time with #4s. The weight of each drop was horrible so had to sit there and weight out each shot load with the scale. Maybe your loader will handel it better, but PLEASE don't think this stuff works like lead in your machine.
I would sure like you to comment on your experiences with loading this stuff when you get your componets. If you learn any tricks to make it work better or better yet things to watch out for would be greatly appreciated. When do you think you will start ?
Oh, forgot to tell you to be prepared for your first look at the pellets, don't freak out as I did. These pellets are not round, they are not uniform, they look like junk. Don't let if fool you, it still works. I wish my physics prof was still alive to tell me how this stuff works, as all I thought I knew about ballistics got thrown out the window when this stuff showed up.
A third heads up, my loads all had a tendency to produce less uniform patterns than expected. They were center heavy. I got more uniform patterns with more slits in the wads. Good Luck to ya, and let us know how your efforts turn out.

[ 06-26-2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: bigshark ]

[Deep Water Jon]

I was at Joe's last week, they have Hevi shot kits! They come with eveything you need to load except primers & powder! it has a good looking manual with recipies. If my calculations are right it looks quite a bit cheaper to reload with this kit.. worth looking into, any way
good luck

* keep your wings to the wind.

[Flatfish]

Shadonaters first mate,

When a projectile is supersonic, it outruns a soundwave. When it travels (slows down) and passes thru the speed of sound, the projectile will be disrupted by the soundwaves. If this takes place close to the muzzle, the effects on the pattern will be minimal . But the farther downrange from the gun, the more pronounced the effect( to a point). If you have ever heard the " Boomboomboom" of a jet going supersonic, you know what these soundwaves feel like at a distance. It is much less pleasant at close range. Like being a pellet in a pattern of shot.

If you read about 1000 and 1800 meter rifle competitions, you will begin to see a common thread in the gun/load combos. In 6.5 mmm, 7mm, .308, .338, and the 50s, the formula is close to the same. They all shoot a bullet with similar ballistic coefficients at about the same speed. Accuracy goes to hell as the bullet slows thru the barrier. It is not a predictable thing as to where the bullets will go. So the shooters make sure that the gun spits 'em out fast enough that it is supersonic all the way to the target.

Shotshells, especially ones for extreme range shooting( 60 yards and up), can and will suffer the same problems. Long story short, it is easier to make long range shells that are slower, initially, than it is with higher than "Normal" speeds(1200 fps or less). If I was to try my hand at 90 plus % patterns at 50 yards, this is one of the parameters of the load I would try.

I am not saying it is totally necessary to use this speed. But if you are having troubles with patterns holding together, it may be worth a try.Especially if you are getting "swirls". That is a pattern that is heavy in the outer ring on one side, but is thin on the other. If you see a swirl on each pattern, but it is not always heavy on one side of the pattern, this is usually the problem.

My duck gun shoots top heavy patterns all the time. I usually hammer rising birds cause it shoots top heavy and core dense( backbored). But I get more cripples than should as they drop into the dekes( top heavy shoots above them....at least that's what I tell myself after I crackered an easy triple).

There is a fellow at the Hillsboro GI Joes that is a shotgun freak. He has quite a bit of experience working with heavy shot in long range handloads. He may be of some help to you. I would ask him, but he will soom be pulling out pattern paper and showing me how a primer switch affected his 45 and 50 yard targets. Right after he starts the pattern thing, my eyes glaze over and I start thinking of lovely ladies in string swimwear. But he is a walking shotgun book. Complete with a chapter or two on Heavishot. I sight my rifle in before deer season. About as much paper as my guns see anymore.

Keep us posted on the duck murdering tests.

Mark and the mildly dorky ballistic dog.

[ 06-26-2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Flatfish ]

[skein]

Good explanation, Flatfish. I shoot some long-range stuff with a 6.5 and you're right on the money. Never thought about it in relation to shot patterning though. Hmmmmmm.

Skein

[Lured In]

GRB...I thought about loading my own also. But after running some of the numbers, I too came to the conclusion, the factory shells were 'good enough'. While I realize price per shell may not be the primary reason for loading your own, EnvironMetal (makers of Hevishot) apparently make a pretty good deal (a buck or more off retail per box) when purchased by the pallet. As I recall that brought the price down to just under $1.50 a shell for 3" #6's.

If we had enough people interested we could see about pulling this off. I'll try to check into it tomorrow to get some better cost figures.

[nrcamo]

I have shot and reloaded heavy shot for the last three years, and I agree with the comment "it's like the old days with lead". I had the same problem with my reloader not throwing accurate weights on the shot. One trick I have done for a long time is weigh each shot charge and then dump it into a plastic 35 mm film can. I weigh out as many charges as I need, then dump them in when needed. Heavi S :smile: hot isn't hard to load. Just follow the directions and you should be fine. If you want tight patterns with it, try it with the Pattern Master choke.

[Killertraylor]

Lured - you are right. I went in with a few buddies last year on a large bulk purchase. I don't remember the final cost per box, but I've now got about 80 boxes of the stuff looking pretty on my shotshell racks. I want to say we saved almost $5 a box over GI Joe's prices but we each bought 50 boxes or more. I also considered reloading but I've had excellent results with the factory rounds and couldn't justify the time for the minimal savings.

[Gun Rod Bow]

You guys are absolutely right about the cost-benefit analyses. I just hate looking for shells halfway through the season and having to change brands/styles cause I can't find what I want.

That was part of my motivation, that and I like to screw with stuff that ain't broke [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

What type of loaders were you guys using? I've got an older PW rotary, a newer PW single stage, and a Mec. I might call the boys in Idaho (PW) and see if they have any tips for using Hevi in their loaders.

I may end up chasing my tail for no good reason and end up right back at buying in bulk (like I've done for steel)

Lured In, others, if a volume buy saves a substatial amount, count me in.

If it comes to that, we'll e-mail privately as to not rattle the sponsors or mods.

GRB

Has anyone Chronographed or Patterned the factory loads?

[bigshark]

GRB
A flat of 250 rounds year before last was 320 dollars. Thats 1.28 per round. 3 inch and 2 3/4
are the SAME price. I am down to almost nothing of the 5 flats I got then. I plan to shoot it all the time so I'm ready to try and get a group together and call the guy we bought if from on that order. Lured In..........I can give you the name of the factory guy I dealt with if you want to form the pool. I would be a participant if thats OK.

Yes I have patterned 2s, 4s, 6s and 7 1/2s. The 2s and 4s were a little more center heavy than I wanted but 6s were great and 7 1/2 were also. The small shot will tumble not only mallard size birds but at 40 yds or so they flat out turn big commons into rags as well.

[ 06-27-2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: bigshark ]