Wolf Hearing March 5th

elkaholic · 03-03-2003, 08:58 PM

Fellow Hunters, It is time to let the legislature know if you want the wolf to stay on the state endangered specie list and be recovered/protected or become an unprotected predator similar to a coyote. Senate Bill 97 is up for a hearing on this very issue March 5 at 3 PM in hearing room D.

Hope to see you there protecting the elk and deer we all like to hunt. :smile:

birdhunter · 03-04-2003, 02:36 PM

So, you want to protect the deer and elk you like to hunt? Did you participate/comment on the draft plans for deer and elk that will guide herd management for the next several years?

ODFW deer/elk management site

Seems like a slightly more important thing than shooting wolves. And removing state protection or ammending the state ESA , at least until it is delisted federally, will have no affect on current state management options. It changes nothing. You still won't be able to control/kill wolves. Management of wolves is governed by federal regulation, not state. Remember they are listed as endangered federally, which means take is prohibited. Although there is a proposal to downlist to threatened, that will only increase the ability of agencies to control problem wolves. It will NOT make it legal for you to shoot a wolf you happen across.

This bill was introduced as a favor to the Oregon Cattleman's Association, but won't be going anywhere anytime soon. You really feel the need to present your expert opinions, do so at the ODFW Commission meeting in Newport on Thursday March 20th.

Commission meeting.

Gun Rod Bow · 03-04-2003, 08:22 PM

Birdshooter,

I for one believe that not prmitting Wolf re-introduction to Oregon is one of the most important facets of the most important issue concerning big game management in Oregon.

The West enjoyed huge growth in deer and elk herds in the last century due to expansion of agriculture and other human activities, mostly very effective predator control.

Wolves have already found their way to Oregon and will in the future when they come from Idaho.

When they do, if the state welcomes them, our elk and deer herds will be severly impacted (diminished) as well as access to much of our wild lands.

Wolves have come to Oregon, and were trapped and moved back. That is what we want.

Elkaholic, please keep us posted on the outcome. Unfortunately I'll be out of state.

GRB

elkaholic · 03-04-2003, 08:50 PM

Sorry Birdhunter, I'm not biting. This is the hunting board not the fishin board. :grin:

As you stated in your April 2002 postings, you think there is room for wolves here in Oregon, and I don't, so I'm sure we won't agree. I wonder if O.A.L.F. knows you are secretly working toward their protection?

I am aware that taking them off the state ESA does nothing until they are downlisted or delisted. Since our legislature only meets every other year, how many packs do we have to harbor until the laws get passed? I think it best to plan ahead rather than react, look where it has got the hunters in Idaho and Wyoming - do you see them supporting wolf protections??? We don't need to do that experiment. NO WOLVES.

Sorry, you won't change my mind.

Finschnitzel · 03-04-2003, 10:09 PM

I personally think Oregon's deer and elk herds are being impacted enough by our exploding cougar population to entertain any thought of allowing wolves to roam the state. It's hard enough now to draw an elk or deer tag in most desireable areas to hunt, what will happen once wolves start preying on the deer and elk herds. You guessed it even more restrictive big game seasons and regulations. Hmmm.... I wonder why so many anti-hunting groups are for the re-introduction of the wolf?????

skein · 03-05-2003, 07:25 AM

Wolves are a two-pronged approach for the anti's. One is reduced tags due to declining herds due to predation, and the second is the impending "land-grab;" the closure of areas of public lands to protect denning pairs.

We cannot keep them out of Oregon - they're already here. We can work to get them off the endangered list so we can manage them. Right now, in states that have had them introduced, managers are having to kill off entire packs because they steadfastly continue to prey on livestock.

Are you also aware of the movement to ban all livestock grazing on public lands? Bingo! Ranchers go out of business, wolves don't need to be "managed" any more, and we all eat carrots for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Demand that wolves get de-listed and start thinking about whether or not you will stand up for our ranchers, because when they're gone, it's all over.

I can't find the link to the predation/management page I'm looking for, but I have it bookmarked at home and will post it this evening. It's pretty interesting reading.

Skein

birdhunter · 03-05-2003, 10:13 AM

I don't even know where to begin....

First off, the Oregon Ag Legal Fund knows very well what I'm doing and my position on the issue. I've provided testimony for their attorney for this hearing. We don't see eye to eye on all aspect of this issue but they respect my objectivity. Second off, I'm not for protecting wolves. I advocate responsible wildlife management. It doesn't necessarily have to be a pro-wolf or pro-ranching thing. And those things aren't necessarily incompatible. I come from a ranching background. Ideally that should imply a holistic stewardship of the land. I've worked animal damage control for livestock depredations. Lethal removal of individual predators preying on domestic livestock I will support. Removal of all protection for an endangered species simply because some members of that population may prey upon livestock, that I won't support. The future of the wolf in Oregon may very likely involve it's delisting on the state level, but I will not support it without an accompanying management plan that provides protection, compensation and allows for lethal management when appropriate. That is why I'll be testifying against this bill later today.

[ 03-06-2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: birdhunter ]

skein · 03-05-2003, 12:12 PM

Birdhunter,

I'm sorry I embarrass you. I consider myself, like you, to be a pretty good steward of the land.

I do not trust the proponents of wolf reintroduction. (I know reintroduction is not the correct term, but for lack of a better one, I'll use it) I think they'll bar us from our public land, refuse to accept evidence of depredation, and never actually get closer to a wolf than their television sets.

I really need to bow out of this discussion, because it's endless rhetoric between two unyielding schools of thought. One thing about it - we will all be around long enough to witness the outcome.

Glad to get an email from you and hear that you're okay.

Skein

Bait O' Eggs · 03-05-2003, 12:58 PM

I am gonna follow Skeins lead on this topic.

Birdhunter shoot me an email. I need to get squared away with next week.

Finschnitzel · 03-05-2003, 09:32 PM

Ever wonder what it would be like to live without the knowledge that everything people do has some sort of motive or agenda?

Ahh ignorance is bliss. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

GutshotApe · 03-06-2003, 06:43 AM

Ah yes, another topic that has people lined up on two distinct sides, minds made up, unyielding......and a topic that people have judged as just too controversial to discuss here in the hunting discussion board

.

Well, I'm with birdhunter on this one.....I think. Wolves have already come back into Oregon....and more are on the way, like it or not. We need to recognize that reality and try to make the best of it, not stick our collective head in the sand and hope it goes away.

birdhunter · 03-06-2003, 08:12 AM

Skein,

No you don't embarass me. Sorry about the comment. Very wordy and a little too passionate.

I figure if both sides think the other side is in a conspiracy they we're alright. I don't trust the environmental groups either. I can appreciate what they are trying to do, but not how they go about it, or much of their logic. Likewise with the cattlemen. I'm very sympathetic to their situation, but wolves aren't going to put anybody out of business in Oregon. This is much more a social issue than a biological one. The wolf is the latest (and perhaps greatest) poster boy of the urban majority Oregon trying to shove it's will upon the rest of the state. So both sides dig in their heels and shout rhetroric and spew misinformation. To an extent it's the nature of politics. Stick to an extreme view that's beyond what you would really accept so that when they do finally come to a compromise it's closer to your side. I understand it, but it frustrates me. To see very good people who I know and respect on both sides of this issue become so polarized.

This is a very passionate issue for me too. One which I try very hard to remain objective about. At the hearing yesterday I didn't testify publicly in favor or in opposition to the bill. I simply provided the Committee with information on how to determine a hybrid from a wolf and the history of subspecific designations of wolves in Oregon. All very straightforward facts, but you'd be amazed at some of the comments I got later. I suppose Chair Ferrioli summarized it best when he told me (somewhat cryptically) to "Be careful. In contentous issues like this the truth is the first casualty."

My take on this issue is that it will be held up in Committee for a while anyways while ODFW does their Commission thing. At the March meeting they should be providing reccomendations to the legislature for what they need ammended in order to work with wolves in the state. You only get 3 minutes of testimony at that hearing too, but I'd be there for it. I didn't take great notes at the Committe meeting, but if you want a run down of what happened I can get that to you later on.

[ 03-06-2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: birdhunter ]

elkaholic · 03-06-2003, 08:35 PM

Hey guys, I understand that they are coming or are here. It comes down to what can landowners do to protect their investment. It also comes down to who will protect our hunters investment? My investment. Your investment. If this is good for somebody, let them pay.

Also, who pays to clean up the bad actors? Wildlife Services are the only professionals trained for this and there is $450,000 less General Fund next biennium to handle current predator problems. Other states get wolf money to clean up the mess but Oregon gets no additional $$. So, I f I don't buy a license or tag because my odds of harvesting an animal are significantly reduced and the State doesn't have any $$$, who pays??

I say SB 97 is the answer, nobody will step up so let the landowners protect themselves as the very least we can do. Any other ideas? I could be swayed but first we have to answer "who pays" if there are strict protections.

Birdhunter, Your testimony was well meaning and informative. I'll see you on the 20th.