Deer chasin' Dogs

[RvW]

I have a german shorthiar 1yr+
Hes a very nonagressive dog, but of course his nature is to chase anything that moves. Ive never seen him catch up to anything but a ball or stick but tonight my neighbor tells me he was on the road chasing a deer.

This has often been a reason to shoot a dog if its not your own in my book. I learned from an old timer freind "Everett Wright" in Reedsport the "SSS" rule
"Shoot, shovel, shutup" Meaning if you see dogs chasing deer or elk through your property, shoot it/them, bury it/them, and dont tell anyone. Hate to say it but Ive had to apply this rule after finding a dead fawn on the back 40, and seeing 3 dogs chasing more the next night.

But when its your own family what do you do??
I know my dog well enough to know if he ever caught a deer, he wouldnt have a clue what to do, and I dont think for a minute that a 70 pound dog all by itself has much of a chance at not getting his own butt kicked by the deer if he does catch up to it somehow. I tried to explain this to the neighbor, deer are wild, dog is domesticated and not a killer.
My dog has never growled at another dog, been aggressive to another animal, or even thought to nip or bite anything anywhere anytime so I am guessing hes just curious, and does it because the deer run away. Ive had dogs chase and kill chickens, a two week chicken necklace cures this...
But a deer necklace?, dont think so.

I let him out every night at 9 sharp, and he is gone for exactly one hour (maybe long enough to get all the deer out of the neighborhood?) but hes back at 10 or a little sooner every time.
I'd think if he was obsessed with deer he wouldnt come back, or even go so far as to get lost.

Any thoughts or suggestions...hate to take away his evening runs, but I dont want him shot either.

One more qwik question. Theres a big cat close by the house, and I am a little concerned about it. Is there anyone to call that will look into relocating it? Will its life be threatened if it is relocated? Hate to see it go and die, but its a bit too close to the neighborhood pets and a few kids. Ive noticed since seeing its prints in the mud a few weeks ago, there hasnt been a possum or coon anywhere near the dumpcans in the back yard!

Sorry its such a long post...the deer thing is buggin me.

[ 02-26-2003, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: cirrhosis-of-the-river ]

[RvW]

Whoops!

[ 02-26-2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: cirrhosis-of-the-river ]

[Boedy]

I will take care of that kitty for you :grin:

Hope your dog doesn’t run into him on one of his nightly runs.

Might try an e collar your dog and buzz him when he goes after any deer he should get the message pretty quickly and decide that chasing deer isn’t any fun anymore.

[ 02-26-2003, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Boedy ]

[RvW]

The collar crossed my mind...but the effective ones with a decent range are $500!

$50 bucks more than the dog was.

Cat is up in the back woods... Dog goes the other direction every night. But you're right, I might be a little less concerned than I should be.

[Crashin' Bait]

It's too bad you can't just call some local hound hunters on that cat.

[Degner]

E-collar or scolding/wacking him with a deer leg. This method works to get dogs disinterested in snakes.

[Snapset]

The dog doesn't have to catch the deer. The run is often times sufficient to kill the animal. Especially in the winter when most western deer are on the brink of starvation anyway.

[reeldick]

Dogs run deer for the fun of the chase. If the dog nips the back of the legs of the deer, he can open up the big artery that goes down the back of the deers leg. The deer is then a goner.
An old neighbor had to put down his golden retreiver when he couldn't break her from running deer. She would take off after deer while pheasant hunting.
Break him soon.

[Rauly]

Take the time and effort to train your dog. You will be glad you did in the long run.

Rauly

[tailchaser]

Definitely a shock collar issue. Put it pretty high so he gets the point quickly. When they get excited on the chase a little buzz won't do it. I hunted an area that had lots of does around and my lab would love a quick chase, the same with bunnies until I made his lips light up from ear to ear just once. To say the least he gets excited now, takes a quick look and thinks twice. He'll look back and me and all I have to say is don't even think about it. Hasn't done it since. I recommend a reasonable amount on everything but this. One good pop and he'll figure it out.

As of the cougar bring a greenie out and tell him there's a wounded kitty cat running around the neighborhood and ask if he can find it. :grin: We only need one to get eaten before we can change the law back.

tc

[hickwithaflyrod]

Don’t kill the dog!!!! When you pay $450.00 for a dog then kill it you will be devastated plus need to get another dog for the same price. Best choice would be the E-collar for 500.00 its worth it and a hell of allot better than killing one. If I lost my dog I would be devastated she’s a good dog. But also take the time and train your dog y'all will be much happier than before and don’t tell me dogs don’t want to be trained because they defiantly do, they act like they don’t but they do. When they hear the words "GOOD DOG" they love it especially when being trained....

Hick & Brinks

[Tilla]

Maybe if you turn the dog on to upland birds, he'll realize what he really wants to do in life!
Maybe he needs to be in a kennel when not supervised.
Just thinkin'

[Degner]

Kennel is a great idea [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[willametteriveroutlaw]

F&W laws state that a dog that is not hunting can be shot for chasing game animals. That being said if you see a dog chasing deer it all comes down to how you personally feel about the issue. And if your feelings lean more towards pulling the trigger, its better not to say anything. (99% of the population won't understand)

COTR Keep a more supervised watch on your dog and you shouldn't have a problem with him chasing deer when your not around. Spend that rampant energy he has on training rather that unsupervised free time. Also if that cat or even a coyote gets half a chance at your dog, its toast.

[Boedy]

You dont need to spend $500 on a e-collar if this is all you want to do with it. There are a bunch in the $200 range that will do the job just fine.

[Beer Waggin]

I'll second the motion about that cat getting a hold of your dog. Maybe tears, maybe a huge vet bill, your choice.
My dog has the scars to prove what a cat can do. He's very lucky to be alive.

[RvW]

Some good advice here. I'll start by saying that there are NO starving deer here on the coast, I saw one the other day and could have sworn it was a muley it was so fat.

I wouldnt think to kill my own dog unless it bites a child...had to do it once and it wasnt easy but required.

I have a hard trime with the "chase kills a deer" theory. The deer I have always known can leap a 6 ft fence, push through brush, and see much better in the dark than most dogs Ive had. But the taste for blood, and the artery thing is something Ive always known to be a "too late" sorta deal.

I went from 12 shorthairs and 12 Ausie border collies to one young dog, (quit the breeding and hunting..too much work!) Its a whole lot easier to train a dog when you have others around that are already trained, often effortless because they imitate the actions of their elders.

I guess I will get a collar...the thing is, I will need to catch him chasing a deer, or train the deer to press the "bUzZ" button!

I'm done hunting anything but pheasant....and Ive trained a million dogs!...Theres gotta be an easier way! (heeere kitty kitty )

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Dogs are known to kill fawns from time to time, but the main problem with running them is that it puts alot of undo stress on them. It is kind of a personal pet peeve of mine. The other thing is that a smaller dog runs a good chence of getting hurt if an adult deer stands it ground, hooves can be deadly.

[RvW]

Outlaw..good point about a deer retaliating or standing ground. I wish this would happen to my dog because Ive seen it happen to others. I tried to explain the difference between my young innocent dog and an aggressive or defensive deer. He just didnt get it, all deer are bambi to him. And apparently all dogs are mongrels.
But undue stress would only teach the deer better survival skills wouldnt it?

[GutshotApe]

COTR - You're kidding, right? You let your dog run loose for an hour or so every night....a dog you obviously care about? :whazzup: And you don't want him chasing deer?

Besides being illegal during bird nesting months, letting dogs roam freely and unsupervised is irresponsible.....and if you've got cougars (or roads with cars, or neighbors with shotguns) in the vicinity, it could be hazardous to your dog's health

[RvW]

checking prices on cedar fence.
Right GSA, its more than a deer thing.

Thanks for the input folks.

[winterkill]

I don't think that a cougar will attack a dog. Cats know that when there are dogs around, humnas are usually close to follow, and do as much as they can to stay away from dogs. As for the deer thing, just hope none of your neighbors see him around or it might be sss!
Ian

[WildHawg]

Cougars DO kill dogs--real easily. Coyotes will also, especially if there are more than 1. This is a fact.
As for the dog--lousy situation. This may sound harsh, but I don't think you could blame anyone but yourself COR, if it ended up dead. You just can't let dogs run free at night and not expect to run into trouble one of these days.
Personally, I would shoot a dog running deer IF it weren't my own. Build a fence, or somehow contain your dogs wanderings and problem solved.
Oh yeah--they don't relocate kitties, they kill them. But they'll have to do more than leave tracks to get ODFW's attention.
Good luck with your problem.

[Killertraylor]

There was a post about a similar subject about 6 months ago - I'm amazed at how many ifishers said they shoot unsupervised dogs and cats. They justify it by claiming that they kill wildlife which they themselves would like to kill instead. I'd never shoot a dog, not in a million years, but you'd better do something about yours - there were some posts in that old thread about guys going hunting for them on "country roads" with a half rack and a shotgun. They shoot any dog that isn't within so many feet of a residence.

[ 03-07-2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[WildHawg]

Like I said KT, I'd shoot any dog running deer that wasn't my own. I wouldn't shoot a dog away from its home, I'd pick it up and try and find its home. If it was my dog, I'd find a way to stop the problem.
A dog that gets the idea to chase is only a short step away from killing. I don't know anyone who has ever saved a dog that started killing deer.
I had 2 dogs require re-education on that subject (actually sheep), and both lived to be in their teens. Used a rubber hose on one in the 70's (brutal yes, but when compared with the alternative...), and a shock collar in the late 90's on my Drathauer. Worked the very first time.
As you KT, of all people know, the law requires you to keep your dog on your property or under your control. It becomes a coyote when it crosses the line and starts hunting for its dinner.
I could add so much here, but I'll keep it short.
Keep your dog at home. Failing that, make sure he doesn't have a penchant for running game. I don't want to shoot any dogs, but I will before I let them get in the habit of harrassing and killing deer.

[ 03-07-2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[GutshotApe]

Originally posted by Killertraylor:
There was a post about a similar subject about 6 months ago - I'm amazed at how many ifishers said they shoot unsupervised dogs and cats. They shoot any dog that isn't within so many feet of a residence. It's guys like that that I carry my Glock for....

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Jeez, KillerT! That thread was about FERAL cats that were shot, not dogs. No dogs were shot. The feral cats that were shot were on and around a privately-owned farm and were dispatched by the owners/agents of that farm. The landowner wanted the pheasants & quail to be able to nest without being gratuitiously killed by feral cats that range far and wide preying on gamebirds. Nothing was ever said about shooting dogs in those posts.....your memory is faulty, pal. And, I'm surprised that you, an "officer of the court?", would carry a Glock for anything other than self defense......and make thinly-veiled threats about using it to take the law into your own hands.........What would Perry Mason think? :whazzup:

[Fish-n-Fever]

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Ron

[Rauly]

COR had some questions. Lets please stay on track here.

Rauly

[Bubba]

Wow I've never heard such a thing you tough guys are talking about shooting peoples pets thats absolutely ridiculous. If i ever caught someone trying or even pointing a gun at one of my pets they would be in for a serious well i would rather not say. If you cant go and confront the owner of an animal then your a coward. You people saying that you would shoot a pet of someone are just crazy!

[Mojo]

Bubba,
In 1993 I had a neibor that turned his 9 heelers loose every night at dusk. I told him that his dogs were up to mischief. He laughed and said they were "pretty good dogs". Two weeks later I got home from work (I worked the night shift, and got home at 2:30 in the morning) and found one of my horses bleeding from both shoulders. She had run through the fence. This mare had a 2 month old colt at her side. Many hundreds of dollars later and over 900 stitches, she was strung back together. The next night I came home early from work. There were 9 dogs chasing the other 6 horses around my pasture(Lotta and the colt were locked in the barn) . I called the cops and was told to go shoot them. When the police officer arrived, the dogs attacked him. He had to mace them to get them to back off. All but one of those dogs got killed(2 by me, and the rest by the police officer).

I think it is imperative to keep ALL your animals contained and under control at all times. I think Cirrosis of the River is trying to find reasonable ideas on how to do this. If your pet is running game or stock, it is your fault when it gets shot. The law states that clearly.

[willametteriveroutlaw]

The ultiamte goal is to keep your dogs and cats locked up. If they are causing problems w/ wildlife or domestic stock then they get whacked.... AND ITS THE PET OWNERS FAULT.

KT, its not wildlife that I, we would rather kill, its robins, finches, all song birds, + all of our game birds. One cat can do more harm in a year than 5 hunters can.

Bubba, Its nots shooting someones cat or dog in there lawn, its an animal that is running free harassing wildlife or stock.

Some of you folks need to lose your citified veiw of life. The country is not for your cats and dogs to run free in. You wouldn't let your dog run free in city limits, why then would you do it in the country. Espically with nesting season fastly approaching.

[ 03-07-2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: willametteriveroutlaw ]

[norms gone fishing too]

if the famliy pet is chashing wild game or stock or me as in the pitbull next door. they are wild and desever what happens to them. just my 02 on this

norm

and if that pitbull ever trys to bite me or a famly member he will go down. if the proper authority won't do it' than well

[WildHawg]

Bubba,
If your sweet little Yellow Lab (I own two) is in my field chasing my steers, horses, or chickens--it is dead meat. No apologies, and you'll owe ME for any damages.
If I am out hunting, and a dogs goes by me chasing a deer--it's dead. This has happened to me twice fishing, both times in semi-residential areas when I was unarmed, or they too would be dead.
A "pet" is something you train and care for. There are laws against animals running wild chasing stock or wildlife. If you fail in your responsibility to train and be responsible for your pet--don't blame me if it ends up dead. I will not take the time to decide if it is a "pet" or a "wild" dog.
At that point you have failed as an owner, and I am fullfilling my rights as a citizen (and some might say doing my duty as one) by eliminating the threat.
I don't want to shoot anything I'm not going to eat--take care of your pets people,and we'll all be happy.
God Bless America!!!!!

[ 03-07-2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: WildHawg ]

[Bubba]

Now wait a minute your posting in your in your message and refering to me as one to not take responsibility for my dog. My dog is well trained so i wouldnt have to worry about it chasing something that it wasnt supposed to.
I don't want to shoot anything I'm not going to eat-- and we'll all be happy."

[ 03-07-2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[Rauly]

Again, if you have any pertinant information for COR we would appreciate it. I have done a little moderating/editing. If you have any questions about it you may e-mail me. Thank you.

Rauly

[Bait O' Eggs]

I usually agree with Wildhawg, but once in a while he lets that U of O influence get in the way of his thinking.

In this case Wildhawg is it right on. Dog chases animal, dog dies. I talked to a gammie one time about dogs chasing animals and he said he terminates the dogs life on site, no questions asked. The way it ought to be.

[ 03-07-2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[WaterDog]

Back about 15 years ago the old man, me, and a close family friend use to hunt 40 acres at the foot hills of the coast range. Family friend had 10 acres next to the this 40. Anyway, our permission to hunt was based on one rule. You see a dog or coyote, you shoot it. The farmer had anywhere from 40 to 100 head of sheep and lost 10-20 head every year due to dogs and coyotes. Mostly to dogs. At times the farmer would call his neighbors and tell them their dog was running his sheep. He tried to tell them before it was too late. The dog owner swore up and down that it wasn’t their dog. “Oh, our dog is a good and would never do that. It’s not ours.” Their tune changed when he left their dog carcass on their porch. DON’T EVER say it isn’t your dog OR your dog would never run stock. Doesn’t matter how well it was trained or how good of breed it is. I know of a few “well trained, well bread” (read as expensive) dogs that never made it home.

Bottomline is do not let a dog run unsupervised or roam.

[WildHawg]

Dang it BOE!!! With friends like you...
God made me to be a Beaver--common sense told me to be a DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fact is, it's like the running bears and dogs with cougars thing...until you've had a bear underneath your house, it's kinda hard to understand what it is like to live in the woods.
It's easy to say "your a jerk cause you would shoot someones pet". I've been lucky, and haven't had problems with domestic dogs (just coyotes and 1 cougar on our property}.
Others I know have had to deal with situations that they would have preferred never having had to deal with. No one wants to shoot a pet--but if you make your living off the land, you do what you have to do to protect your livelihood.
Try to see it from the farmer/rancher/hunter's side.

I shot two labs on Tuesday chasing our pregnant ewes. People move out from town and "let their dogs run free" Yea! Free to run every animal in the area to the ground and either maul or kill them. KEEP YOUR DOGS UNDER CONTROL OR LOOSE THEM!

[RvW]

Wow, quite a scuffle here. Home for a shower after a miserable day in the Portland area and off to Roseburg but couldnt resist a post.

I recieved an email from a trapper in Northern Cal who would like to relocate the cat.

As far as the dog, Ive decided to accompany him on his nightly runs and happened to run into my "neighbors" wife. I told her I would be walking with the dog after her husband told me about the deer thing and she said he was pulling my leg and just hated dogs. My dog rex visits every house when I let him out and said hello to every neighbors dog, and every neighbors tree before coming home. She said all the neighbors know his name from me calling for him, and they say "go home" and he does.

We walked tonight for about 30 minutes and he had a good lead on me when we got to the road. (which never has any traffic by the way) Two adult does hit the pavement and skated towards the trees and my dog wizzed by me towards the house faster than Ive ever seen him run.
If you folks knew the nature of my dog you'd know I have little to worry about with him developing bad habits like killing.

I do agree however that letting him run free at night for an hour isnt exactly a good idea dispite the slim chance he could end up chasing deer. He could get into a scuffle with a cat or porcupine which would be a shame, funny but Ive never heard a coyote around here but Im sure if they had a chance they'd kill him too, have seen it happen when a female in heat is used as a decoy.

I have shot a dog or three in my time for chasing deer/elk and Ive had a few in the crosshairs too and decided the dog might be worth the effort to train because it didnt have a prayer of catching a deer to begin with. Nor did the few Ive spared have the appearance of a killer compared to the filthy desperate dogs Ive seen chasing deer. You can often tell which ones will only learn by a bullet.
Usually a 300 mag cartridge fired a foot or two over a dogs head sends a pretty clear message along with a visit to the owner.

Honestly I have NEVER heard of ONE dog chasing deer/elk/or especially a horse by itself. all would open a large can of whoopass on a single dog, especially this wirey little german shorthair of mine, but I can imagine all dogs still have the instinctive nature to chase and kill for the sake of killing no matter how domesticated they are, or diluted the senses must be. Its still there. Dogs are carnivores and this can never be bred out of them completely.

Ive owned many dogs, trained most of them to tree coons, chase and confront anything they are not accustomed to on thier property, and somehow they knew the deer and elk which often walked through our property wherever it was (especially when we lived on the Umpqua)where welcomed and not a threat. Rex does not have the bad influences of other dogs around who chase deer and I think with a little training he will know not to chase anything to kill it. Heck it only took me an hour to teach him to stand up, now I cant get him to stop! Everytime I have a tennis ball or a duck decoy he stands on his hind legs and doesnt budge till Ive thrown it..

Thanks for the input folks. No need to debate ethical treatment of animals and get fumed at each other. Building a fence soon, my dog is a pet and will never be anything more. Hes a good one too.

[Bubba]

So what you guys are saying is if you have kids (and im assuming that you guys treat your pets as if they are part of your family), but if you have kids and they are out running around and hurting someones animals and you catch them in the act what do you do? You would call the proper authority and have them picked up, right? You wouldnt go get out your guns and start shooting, right? So what im saying is you should call the proper authority and have the animals picked up not shot. If it were my dog i would have them trained in a way that they know not to leave the yard even if it means chasing something.
I've owned a Yellow Lab for years and my house backs to a greenway with no fence i have my dog trained to stop and the end of our yard and go no further even if she is chasing a squirel out of the yard, its not hard to do. Im just saying killing family pets is different from killing wild dogs in packs that no one owns.

CotR,
Walking with your dog is good for both of you.

[Killertraylor]

GSA - you should have read the old post before telling me that nobody was talking about shooting dogs in that old thread (Predators are killing our ducks and geese). I went back and read at least 3 posts where guys talked about shooting dogs.

Regardless, the idea of shooting dogs still bothers me - but I do agree that it is the owner's responsibility to keep their dog from chasing deer, and legally that dog can be shot if it is pursuing game.

And about carrying a Glock (not sure why Rauly erased that part?) that wasn't meant as what you termed a "veiled threat" it was meant seriously. I classify guys who get drunk and go cat or dog hunting as the type of characters who I'd most likely be forced to defend myself against. I didn't mean to imply that I'd shoot them just because they shot a dog.

Killer,
I'd rather shoot the problems that let their dogs run but it's looked down on, even in Klamath County :grin: . Why is a dogs life of more value than a calf or lamb?

[Killertraylor]

Keta - it's because nobody has tought a calf or a lamb to point pheasants yet :tongue:

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]