Anti hunters scare tactics

[Straydog]

All of us need to read this and be aware of the people that are out to stop hunting and what actions they may take to do so...........

Rabbit hunting clinic

[ 01-16-2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Looks to me like "Terrorist Threats" against government employees and something should be done to track these nuts down and put 'em in jail.

[Artwo]

Under the circumstances I can now see why ODFW (Lindsey) did what he did with cancelling this event. But, on the other hand I hate to see these extremists getting what they wanted by using a bunch of BS like that. I would have preferred to have seen the event continued as planned and not have given in to their scare tactics..........................but I do now understand and respect the final decision.

And I also agree with Keta, these individuals should be hunted down and prosecuted for the threats they have made, even from outside the U.S.

JK

[skein]

I hunt with the Hound's Club and have a good friend who was there for the hunt. He said that Matt Rossoll was there and went around with the hunters. My friend seemed to think he was "enlightened" some and actually enjoyed watching the dogs work - but not the actual shooting.

I told my buddy, "Don't kid yourself!" This guy was gathering ideas to use against us in the future. We are losing this war because we are fighting a defensive action. They attack, we respond. If we don't go over to the offensive (some call it proactive) we will spend all our energy chasing our tails.

Demanding that an investigation is done and that the guilty be found and prosecuted is one way to curb some of this BS. They didn't just threaten "ODFW" as an organization, they threathened the woman in charge of the Outdoor Women program and the kids and their moms who were there (or going to be there) for that hunt.

Ann Snyder's (ODFW) phone number is (503) 872-5310 x5363.

Call and let her know we are behind her efforts to stop these threats!

Skein - who has no intention of letting this drop.

[ 01-16-2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: skein ]

[lightline]

I would think the Feds would become involved in somthing like this. Iv'e never had to deal with a hunter harassment situation and I hope that I never will, because I know I probably will handle it poorly. Its hard to fight and protect against something that is dear to your heart when the other side has no regard for the law that we have to live by.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Guys,

Please e-mail ODFW and director Ball and ask that

1. They ask the Oregon State Police and FBI to investigate these threats.

2. Inform the news media that their employees lives and safety have been threatend by "animal right extremists"

3. Do what is necessary to protect their employees, but resist taking similar actions (cancellation of the hunt) to embolden these terrorits.

If they receive, say a couple hundred responses like this, it will have an impact.

In-action is compliance.

I sent mine to Odfw.Info@state.or.us and asked that they forward it to Director Ball.

Get mad, this is worth it

GRB

[ 01-16-2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

[lightline]

GRB: Its a done deal.

[TheRogue]

My e-mail just sent.

[Lured In]

I found Director Ball's email addy...

Lindsay.A.Ball@state.or.us

Going to send an email now.

[skein]

I talked to Ann Snyder again this morning. Their response to this is two-fold:

One, they've asked OSP to meet with the E.E.Wilson staff and give them information and strategies for handling this kind of protest/threat scenario. Part of that sounds to me like a wise move, i.e. knowing what to do before it smacks you in the face. Part of it sounds like sensitivity training, i.e. responding to death threats in a politically correct, non-confrontational way.

The second step they've taken is to bring in the OSP for an investigation, although as she said, "The threats were all by voicemail and they will be very hard to trace." My feeling is if I said I was going to shoot someone on the courthouse steps in Corvallis, they would work *very* hard to trace that call - and justifiably so. I'll go so far as to say if one of us had threatened one of them, the national media would be involved and the OSP would be working overtime to find the guilty party.

She also indicated that in some ways this would work in our (the hunting community) favor because, for one thing, it encouraged the commission to state publically that they are in favor of hunting and will act to protect our rights to do so.

This is not the end of this - even though maybe both sides want it to be. The next step will be to define a procedure and process to handle protests so that some knee-jerk group can't stop a sanctioned, established, and advertised event.

Please share anything you know or find out. This was a BIG DEAL even if they don't want it to be.

Skein

[Lured In]

Here is a copy of me email to Director Ball...

Director Ball:

I am a former Oregon resident now residing near Vancouver, WA and hunt and fish almost exclusively in Oregon. My wife has attended BOW events sponsored by ODFW in the past, and I would like to see these events continued in the future.

Like many, I was nearly enraged to see ODFW withdraw its support of the recent BOW Family Rabbit Hunt at EE Wilson. I know there was much discussion among hunters as to why ODFW would make such a move, seemingly caving in to anti-hunting pressure. Today I was made aware of an article that was printed in the Mail Tribune by Mark Freeman. The article specifically highlighted the violent threats that were being sent to ODFW and ODFW employees regarding its support of the rabbit hunt.

I can now at least partly understand your reasoning for pulling ODFW support of the hunt. I fully appreciate your comments that were offered in the Mail Tribune article emphasizing that ODFW would continue to support and promote hunting opportunities. I am concerned; however, that given the severe and outright violent threats that were received, that this may be a sign of things to come.

These threats represent a real danger to both ODFW’s mission and to the rights of those who hunt and fish in Oregon. I firmly believe that ODFW needs to take a proactive stance in dealing with those that would cross the line of opposition and threaten violence. If emails were received or phone calls were made, there should be some record of who these people are that made these threats. If so, ODFW needs to take a direct course of action to identify and prosecute those responsible for threatening acts of domestic terrorism. I am not attempting to exaggerate this into some conspiracy, simply emphasizing that a ‘loud and clear’ message needs to be sent to those considering threatening violence in the future.

I would greatly appreciate ODFW attempting to prosecute those involved in this particular incident and offering a press release stating ODFW’s position on this and that if threats are received in the future, those involved will be prosecuted.

Again, I appreciate you efforts and can only imagine the difficulty in trying to please all of the groups pressuring you. On the other hand, we cannot allow our rights to hunt and fish to be disrupted, nor should ODFW employees have to tolerate bodily threats as a result of providing opportunities to hunt and fish.

Please take the necessary steps to clearly communicate that ODFW sponsored events will not be cancelled in the future nor will threats be passively tolerated.

[skein]

Lured In,

WOW!!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

VERY good letter.

I wish I could have said that. I will, with your permission, copy some of your statements and put it into a letter of my own.

Thanks for taking the time to write, and thanks for writing such an intelligent and thoughtful letter.

Skein

[GutshotApe]

Skein - You are well within your rights as a citizen to use the legal system if you can to fight these people. Sue away! I may donate to the cause. But you would be well advised not to fall into their trap by engaging protestors if ever confronted.

Its not in my blood to back down from a fight either, especially when I think I'm right, and if I'm ever confronted on private land the protestors will soon be dealing with trespass charges and the county sheriff. But on public land (USFS, BLM, State), protestors have the right to be there, too, in most cases (but not necessarily under controlled-access hunts on wildlife areas like Sauvies Island). You can't win by playing their confrontation/media game on public land and long, painful experience in other states shows this to be true. The best course of action is to avoid confrontation in the field and let the police, courts and legislators deal with these folks.

BTW, any more ducks around the area?

[skein]

Any more ducks? Darn few. I've seen quite a few geese but they look awful dark on the belly. Is that like having too many fins? :grin:

GSA, I know you're not into backing down, and I don't want anyone to think that I even considered you doing that. It's just that I've never been beat up by anybody that didn't have to work at it, and I feel that these folks got in a sucker punch.

Looks like a bluebird weekend coming up but I still want to go to Tahkenitch and look things over. Wanna go? Maybe Sunday?

Skein

[GutshotApe]

Yeah Skein, the forecast sounds like no weather until monday. I'd be game to take a ride over the hill to see what we see. I can show you a place that I've hunted on the back side of Siltcoos Lk in the past - might jump a duck or two there if its still open and not posted.

[KingFisher85]

Oh that really sets me off.

"You should be hunted down and have a bullet put through your head, and leave the little bunnies alone".

"You better watch your back, woman".

Keta's right, Terrorist Threats. The gov should find these people and do harm to them.

If someone made threats to me like that, they better to what they say!
This is a day and age where you don't go around saying stuff like that. Some people, I just don't get. I bet you anything them people that sent them e-mails where not over the age of 20 thou, I would say just by the way the quotes sound, half of them are kids. Sounds just like some people i've talked to in chat rooms. Some people just got problems.

[Gun Rod Bow]

GSA,

"The best course of action is to avoid confrontation in the field and let the police, courts and legislators deal with these folks."

I'm sorry, I do not agree. I will not seek confrontation, but there is a law in this state that prohibits harassment of hunters. I will defend my heritage and right.

Again, without seeking confrontation, but not running when confronted by fanatics.

GRB

[GutshotApe]

Skein - its good for ODFW and OSP to plan for how to handle future disruptions. I guess one could ask why they weren't prepared for this one.

This incident is merely a very minor skirmish in the anti-hunting movement. I have friends in Connecticut and they have had to deal with hunting protestors for decades.

The primary goal of these groups is confrontation and, if possible, violence or at least heated discussion in front of TV cameras. The best thing to do is avoid any confrontation and hunt somewhere else if protestors show up at your 1st location.

I can't fault ODFW for postponing the Outdoor Women event - there were threats of violence
and nobody can responsibly ignore them. BTW, tracing a phone call long after the fact isn't possible, is it?

There was a case a few years ago when a guy from Roseburg, who was upset over not drawing his preferred elk tag, threatened over the phone to "come up there to Portland with his 7mm mag and use it" on them. This particular genius [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] had given his name and license number to the clerk so it was easy for OSP to hunt him up for a little chat. He turned out to be relatively harmless. But that incident prompted ODFW to spend big bucks on a HQ security system, inspection of all bags & parcels entering, etc. for quite a while afterwards.

You don't need to encourage Lindsay Ball to track down and prosecute those who made the phone threats. If they can be traced, they will be. Trouble is, the calls are probably untraceable...............I think :whazzup: .

[Lured In]

GSA...I realize that 'tracing' the calls on this event may be a mute point; however, as you mentioned, preparing for the future is not.

Sometimes there is a call log, depending on the phone system, that does in fact keep a record of calls. Keep in mind that if this happens again, ODFW will be forced to implement a call system that does track numbers. Believe it or not, most radio shows have this capability to prevent wackos from calling in and threatening the host or to respond to confessions of guilt on the air.

Regardless, ODFW needs to make thier position very clear and attempt to effectively deter this behavior in the future.

[skein]

I'm going to paraphrase this: "The only thing necessary for evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

The best thing to do is avoid any confrontation and hunt somewhere else if protestors show up at your 1st location.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">So, nope, I have no intention of tucking tail and running. Ain't in my blood.

I'm thinking about filing a lawsuit against that organization. Isn't that what they would do? Aren't there laws against threats and intimidation? Then as a law-abiding citizen I have a right to pursue LEGAL activities without said threats.

No sale, GSA.

Skein

[GutshotApe]

GRB - So what are you gonna do? Give 'em a butt stroke upside the head? Shoot 'em in the leg so they can't follow you? Tie 'em up and leave them for the coyotes? All appealing prospects, no doubt , but not advisable.

The way the anti-hunters do it in NewEngland is to "attach" themselves to a hunter or group of hunters on public land and follow them, at a short distance. They don't have to try to make noise - it just happens - and scares off the game........end of hunt. They want you to get angry and assault them and will provoke you when the cameras are around. They usually are in pairs or threes thinking there's safety in numbers when the cameras can't see them - and they're right.

The rabbit hunt incident at EE Wilson will fade away if nothing else happens to keep it alive. The whole thing exists, really, only in the media. The anti-hunters desperately want conflict and seek it out because it generates publicity. The media doesn't report non-events, usually, so the best thing is to avoid confrontation.

There are lots of places to hunt and eventually, if not confronted, the anti-hunters will lose interest and go back to the city.

[skein]

Okay, I can get into that. If they decide to "accompany" you, just lead them to some of your "nicer" places. I can think of several, but they're mostly uphilll (very steep) or through some blowdowns (very thick) or maybe some poison oak.... This could actually be fun. :grin:

The way the anti-hunters do it in NewEngland is to "attach" themselves to a hunter or group of hunters on public land and follow them, at a short distance.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I can take these jerks places that will leave them longing for the mall.

I actually think that's a good strategy. Thanks for the idea, GSA.

Think about this, guys. We really don't want confrontation, and it really is against the law to beat the **** out of them. This way, we wouldn't even have to let them know they were getting under our skin (another victory for them). We could just take them on a "real" hunting trip. HoooooHaaaa!

Skein

[Straydog]

Good call GSA and Skein!

Nothing makes the anti hunting zealots happier than a photo op of a wild eyed, gun toting hunter rearranging the facial features of a zit faced wuss.

Give them a tour of the backcountry for as long as they will or can stay with you. (15 minutes???) then follow them back to their cars, get license numbers and report them for hunter harrasment.

[skein]

Straydog,

....or let them try to remember how to get back to their cars. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Sometimes I'm ashamed of myself. :grin:

Skein

[KingFisher85]

Just a quick question: how many of you guys have ran into these types of people out in the woods before?
I know 3 years ago when I was elk hunting, there was some people driving around on the closed roads shooting a Mini-14 off, guessing that they where trying to scare off all the elk, there idea did not work tho, got one the next day!!! :grin:

[K16]

I'm not sure where I read this may have been Bill Monroe's Sunday article. Anyway, I think we need to write a little letter to the news agencies for pumping up the small protest just for the cameras. This would have never made the news if not for the hype.

[Gun Rod Bow]

GRB,

The "wild eyed, gun toting hunter" will remain a proud, blissfull, dolt.
[img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[Gun Rod Bow]

GSA, Skein Others,

I cannot argue with your point about non confrontation. Your logic is sound. I'm aware of the soundbite editing that can make lawfull sport hunters appear as Neanderthal.

Last year a co-worker was ranting about how the "peace-nics" were going to protest in Pioneer Courthouse Square" each Friday till we stopped bombing Afganistan. He said "we should go protest them". So we did.

We made a point to purchase signs (Mine said "terrorists can't be hugged into submission", and "I support the actions of my government in the defense of our country", it is still in my office)

You should've seen the outrage on their faces. It was GREAT. A lady asked, "don't you think we have the right to protest" and I responded I do, but don't you think we have the right to contradict you? She humpfed and walked off.

We actually ran into 1 other guy who was sick of the one sided protests and showed up also to counter.

We engaged in discourse, discussed many issues, and quite honestly embarraseed the scraggly, skrawny, wheat tea drinking professional protesters with mere logic and reason.

We were slapped

[ 01-18-2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

[Gun Rod Bow]

Sorry guys, AOL dumped me and won't let me edit a post. It stopped at a real funny spot though...I thought it was a masterwork... it continues...

We were slapped on the back by cops, firemen, and passers by.

Next time I feel driven to once again engage the dreadlock topped, testosterone deprived foe, please join us! Let me know what you'd like to have printed on your commercially produced sign. Afterward, we'll retire to Jakes, smoke cigars, drink scotch and tell off color jokes.

GRB

[skein]

Beautiful! Count me in. And AOL's timing of your dropped connection was downright Freudian.

Afterwards, I'll buy the first round.

Skein

[Big Willie]

You guys are great! Keep up the good work! My emails are on the way.

A good cigar, good scotch...it doesn't get any better than that!
Gary