PETA wins again! (contact info added)

skein · 01-09-2003, 01:00 PM

The youth/women shotgun clinic and rabbit hunt at E.E.Wilson has been called off this weekend. This event is sponsored by ODFW and supported by the Mary's Peak Hound's Club to create a venue for women and young people to learn firearm safety and shotgun shooting out in the field, followed by a rabbit hunt. We think of it as "passing the heritage along."

But it was protested (naturally) by a bunch of folks who disagree with my rights to participate in the hunting sports, and ODFW cratered without even a whimper. The fight was over before we even heard the opening bell. Director Lindsey Ball made the decision to cancel the event without involving ANYONE but the protesters- just like that.

Some of you may remember the effort a lot of us went to to save the hatcheries. I was one of those who called and wrote and worried. Imagine my feelings when I find that it's okay to help ODFW, but when it's time for them to stand up for me and my rights, they are non-players.

I am sooooo angry at this, that I need to stop, collect my thoughts, and start over. Just remember this: these people want all hunting stopped. Period. And they will stop at nothing to accomplish that. And they are winning.

Skein - whose other car is an SUV (with leather seats!)

[ 01-10-2003, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: skein ]

Bill Monroe · 01-09-2003, 01:10 PM

Take that deep breath now...
I don't think they'll win this one...lots of cranky reaction from hunters today. I can actually see why they postponed (not canceled) the hunt...I'll cover the commission meeting tomorrow and my guess is they'll listen to the other side and confirm the hunt...I've been wrong before, but it sure seems like that's what will happen.

andy-ap emerger · 01-09-2003, 01:12 PM

activistcash.com

Find out who has been paying for all of PETA's fights.

skein · 01-09-2003, 01:42 PM

Andy-ap,

Yep, no one who supports PETA gets ANY of my dollars.

Peta is boycotting Kentucky Fried Chicken, so guess where I'm going to lunch tomorrow! Remember the jingle, "It's so nice to feel - so good about a meal - so good about Kentucky Fried Chicken!"

Maybe I'll take a bucket or two out to the youth/women rabbit hunt when they decide to have it. :grin:

Skein

TheRogue · 01-09-2003, 01:49 PM

Yup, saw that. I'm pretty disgusted. Did Oregon ever pass a law concerning interfering with a person legally in pursuit of a game animal?? Many states either have done so or are discussing it. I'm pretty disgusted with myself for not knowing.

I'll be shooting my e-mail to the ODFW list, asking why the easy capitulation on this!!

TR

Miss B Haven · 01-09-2003, 01:58 PM

skein- Yuumm.... Chicken, tastes just like bunny rabbit! :grin:

Norm · 01-09-2003, 02:51 PM

I'd like to hear the whole story before I pass judgement on Ball. Maybe there wasn't enough sponsors for the event?? If they just bowed to PETA pressure, time for new ODFW leadership.

Proud memeber of PETA(People Eating Tasty Animals), just the thought makes me hungry for some KFC.

CATCH AND EAT · 01-09-2003, 03:14 PM

Got to say that I am not a hunter. Yet I support the right of those who want to hunt. I think it is pathetic that these organizations have the support of so many ill informed folks regarding hunting. I have a particular distaste for those that go out of their way to protest events like this.

Someone ought to take these ding dongs out and give them a lesson about the real world.

Steeliehunter · 01-09-2003, 03:30 PM

I think this somes it up best, YOU CAN'T GRILL IT TELL YOU KILL IT. And who do you think keep building these million dollar home and taking up more habbitat.

I had a run in with them while I was stationed back east. I hope it dosen't get like that here.

foxer · 01-09-2003, 03:31 PM

I heard it wasnt even PETA, just a small group of locals...Pathetic

nerta · 01-09-2003, 03:43 PM

Catch and Eat, thanks for your support of the hunters, we need all we can get these days. Fishing is hunting ya know, just more trickery involved getting the fish to bite. By the way you right 40 ain't if you're a tree. :grin:

MountainLion84 · 01-09-2003, 04:17 PM

It almost sounded like there was other reasons for cancelling, but if so the timing was terrible as it gave the perception that PETA won. If they don't reschedule then PETA did win, and we have a major problem on our hands.

skein · 01-09-2003, 04:19 PM

Foxer,

That's what I heard, too, that it was just some knee-jerk group. I used the PETA designation as a sort of a generic descriptor.

Bill,

I listen up when you speak, so I hope you're right. I won't soon forget that they first CANCELLED the hunt, then went looking for comments. Made me feel GUILTY until proven innocent. And the guy I talked to at E.E.Wilson used the term "cancelled." If I was a single mom who wanted to share this experience with her son or daughter, I would consider it truly cancelled and give up. That means they won.

I have always been a supporter of Lindsey Ball, and felt that he was a good guy who would stand up with us. As near as I can tell, he didn't do that this time.

Skein

lightline · 01-09-2003, 06:21 PM

TheRogue: Oregon does have a hunter harassment law. But look at what we are dealing with.

Jerry Dove · 01-09-2003, 06:33 PM

First cougars, and almost bears, then rabbits, then deer, then elk , and they are already trying to stop fishing. I watched a PE, I can't capitalize peta, person talking on tv awhile back. I could not help notice his leather shoes and leather belt. If ODFW gives into the bunny hugging nuts, then we are all in trouble. We better stand up for our sleves, becouse I do not belive anyone else is going to do it for us. Call ODFW now. Jerry

PayDay · 01-09-2003, 06:56 PM

I'm not a hunter, but I'd be glad to email ODFW if you can post somebody's address.
Saw the protest on last night's news and it was pretty ridiculous. I can't believe ODFW would bend over to a group that represents such a minority fringe of public opinion.

Kruechief · 01-09-2003, 07:01 PM

From the Website:

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

Black Eye
According to a July 26, 2000, Associated Press story, out of the 2,103 animals that PETA “rescued” during 1999, a whopping 1,325 of them were euthanized (put to sleep) anyway [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] . Considering the organization’s budget during that same year (over $17 million), its cash reserves at the time (over $4 million), and its history of rushing to the defense of even the scrawniest laboratory rat when TV cameras are rolling, it’s shocking that the group would sentence all of those cats and dogs to the needle :whazzup: .

While PETA and the other groups condemn scientific research involving animals (90 percent of which are rodents, according to Americans for Medical Progress, a pro-research foundation), they spend a pittance on animal shelters. Eleven million animals are destroyed annually for lack of facilities. Yet PETA spent less than $3,955 of its $12 million in fiscal year 1995 and $6,100 of its $10.9 million in fiscal 1996 for shelter programs, according to its nonprofit tax forms filed with the IRS

.

In contrast, PETA sent $70,500 in 1995 to Rodney Coronado, a convicted arsonist and avowed member of the domestic-terrorist group called the Animal Liberation Front. Coronado served a five-year federal prison sentence for a 1992 animal-rights-related firebombing at Michigan State University :shocked:

.

Unapologetic about its ties to domestic terrorism, PETA also made a cash donation in 2001 to the North American Earth Liberation Front, a group that the FBI has called a domestic terrorist organization [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] .

Thanks Andy for the wed address!!!!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Loren

Bill Monroe · 01-09-2003, 07:03 PM

Well, it's true that if you're not really careful about knowing what's going on before speaking out, you waste perfectly good and useful emotion...Those who protest with knowledge are the loudest squeaking wheels.

The facts were in the story and one written by Mark Freeman of the Medford Mail Tribune.

I'm not aware the hunt was ever cancelled, no matter what interpretation it was given by the manager of EE Wilson (a personal friend) or any others...maybe it was, but my understanding was that it simply was put on hold until the commission could sort it out and give other Americans their right to object. My gut feeling is that the coming legislative season is causing some extra consideration of everyone's feelings as well.

I also sense a lot of overreaction...

And PETA was never involved in this...nor were any other significant local anti-hunting groups.

(Jerry, unless you actually touched those belts and shoes, you can't say for sure they're leather)

Hopefully, a lot of you will be there tomorrow at 1 to make your case and remind the commission you (we) need their support and encouragement.

I can't believe the hunt will be canceled.

Jerry Dove · 01-09-2003, 07:17 PM

Bill. Your right, I didn't touch them, but they looked like leather. Kind of like the guy from Peta that I did a talk show with. He wanted to stop killing everthing. I told him I had to kill moles so I could grow my garden vegtables. He said I did not have to grow a garden. I could buy them at Safeway. OK

andy-ap emerger · 01-09-2003, 07:43 PM

Bill, thanks for keeping the even keel in all of this. I sure hope that your gut reaction is 100% right on the money. Let's keep everybody informed that this STILL IS the Great Pacific North West and getting outdoors is becoming a part of the outdoors. ....(Just a fan who listens to the 503-225-5555 every friday) when your not on holiday [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
...anyway, tight lines!

andy"ap emerger"
"to truly love art, one must learn how to make art."---F. Goya

Boedy · 01-09-2003, 07:54 PM

Incase you missed it before.

http://www.petitiononline.com/rvkptaex/

GutshotApe · 01-09-2003, 07:57 PM

Anytime a hunting event is publicized there is the chance of anti-hunters inserting themselves into the mix. I think ODFW was concerned about crowd control & safety and the participants probably didn't want to be in a demonstration either - so the event was postponed will be held later.

I'll be very surprised if the commission or ODFW caves in to a few bunny huggers and cancels the hunt. But when the event is rescheduled it probably will have to be done without any fanfare, etc.

skein · 01-09-2003, 08:20 PM

Without fanfare? Not a chance. They won round one without a fight - why should they give up now.

Should we hide the dates of the hunt? Maybe hunt at night so they won't see us? No, No, No!

If they protest, then I think they'd better get a permit to do so. If they interfere with the hunt, then they should be ticketed and sent away. The hunters won't be the ones breaking the law, they will.

I have to stop again. I am still too angry to continue - I will say things I regret. But I have no intention of letting this pass.

Skein - who stopped by KFC and brought home dinner tonight.

Joe · 01-09-2003, 08:27 PM

I hope that the anti's victory doesn't stir too much momentum on their part.

Lured In · 01-09-2003, 08:50 PM

I honestly can't believe this and hope the truth has some merit for ODFW. If ODFW blinks everytime a group opposes an event (furry or fishy), what's to stop them from cancelling "free fishing weekend"?

I have to agree with Skein, they should have made the issue public before putting the hunt on hold. If protestors show up, good. I might show up with my barbecue and smoker and whip up some duck jerky and venison steaks while they are out gathering up some bunnies.

I can honestly say I don't imagine many of the protestors would stick around as the hunters come out with their harvest.

The press coverage will raise awareness and hopefully (Bill?) will present a solid case on how this is a violation of these people's right to hunt without harrassment.

maggot · 01-09-2003, 09:51 PM

PETA?.......... is that ..People for Eating And Tasting Animals?

Fishplay · 01-09-2003, 10:32 PM

These people get under my skin to Skein!

Until now there wasn't much of interest to me on the ODFW agenda for tomorrows meeting.

Now I think I might go ahead and pay the outragous parking fee so I can say my peice!

bigshark · 01-09-2003, 11:00 PM

Fishplay
Ask who is validating tickets and you get to park for free.

V. Green · 01-10-2003, 06:24 AM

Jerry Dove,

I was unaware that the people of Oregon have actually ended the Cougar and Bear hunting seasons. To my knowledge we voted to end the use of dogs and bait to hunt for these animals. There is a big difference between ending hunting and regulating the methods for hunting.

I have no issue with anyone hunting or fishing as long as they will eat what they get. If you wont eat it don't kill it. If you will eat it, fire away

.

Also, I believe in sportsmanship. Using bait to get a bear is like using a gillnet to get a fish. Both methods are effective but are they really sporting? For me it is not about getting your fish or animal but about the chase.

justdave · 01-10-2003, 07:30 AM

When I first read about the hunt, I thought it would be a nice intro to hunting etiquette and safety in a controlled environmet w/knowledgeable and experienced instructors. I remeber thinking to myself there likely wouldn't be too many participants. The more I thought about it, what a great way for mothers to actually turn their children over to the sport of hunting without fearing what bad habits the fathers were going to teach the kid. Picture dad layed back in the recliner, beer in hand, hunting show on tv, the lawn needs mowing and the door is off it's hinges. She's going to willingly let her baby go with that? Then there's the single mom's (we all know how many) looking to extend the traditions of their father's. Should have plenty of paticipation. When I read about the protesters and postponement, I was saddened that for one, the youth attending would be so disappointed. To have their day ruined by a group of folks that have to force their will on others. If you choose not to hunt or fish, that is your right. If I choose to hunt or fish and involve my children, that is my priveledge. The only problem with expressing an opion on this venue, is we're preaching to the choir. There might be activists reading this board, but I doubt seriously they would register and chime in. If there are lurkers about, I would just like to say. We protect our resources as much as anyone. Game animals are managed for their health and sustaining populations. There is a very nice balance in this state, scenery to die for, activities outdoors to involve yourself in any time of the year, and you still will likely never run into me on the trail. I try to keep my business my own and leave others to their own. Let the hunt take place.

Just Dave

Joe · 01-10-2003, 07:54 AM

V Green,

No offense intended toward you but I would bet money you have never baited a bear in and killed it.

From my experience baiting is a challenging and rewarding way to hunt. It is more like using bait to catch a fish than gillnetting.

Just my 2 cents worth.

At any rate the anti's already won that battle so now they move on to there next one.

skein · 01-10-2003, 08:11 AM

Well said, Dave, and I agree, we're preaching to the choir. But that choir is pretty vocal (pun intended) and has made many calls and written many letters. I posted this thread to alert those of us who might have missed the drama.

To the Choir: Thanks for reading - and thanks for continuing to call and write. We need to win this one by a pretty big margin.

Here's a name and number if you want to call and voice your opinion. Please do.

Ann Snyder (503) 872-5310 x5363 or x5528

Thanks.

Skein

Jerry Dove · 01-10-2003, 03:26 PM

thanks Joe. I do belive cougars are on the increase. I wonder why?

Bill Monroe · 01-10-2003, 04:38 PM

Just to get everyone back on track...or thread whatever...
the hound club is going ahead tomorrow without the department. I don't think anyone is going down to protest, but I'll be there...another story in tomorrow's paper and then i'll tackle that "other" media in Sunday's column...
commission also defended hunting today...50 folks, mostly hunters...
details in the morning fishwrap...metro cover.

V. Green · 01-10-2003, 07:41 PM

Joe,

No offense taken. Your right I have never baited a bear and then killed it. Honestly, I have never killed an animal (not counting birds). It isn't that I have any problem with hunting or killing an animal, I just can't kill an animal that I won't eat. I have tasted bear and wonder why anyone would eat it

However, I have been around many bears. Sometimes within 10' with cubs. They have never bothered me and I have left them alone. I know that many bears are not docile and can be very dangerous I have just never experienced that myself. Thus I don't see the sport in baiting a bear. Personally I would want to track it down myself.
(FYI-One year in BC I saw/heard of four treed bears being being shot in the sake of "self defense", this is not the kind of thing I think of when the term self defense comes up.)

Honestly, I feel the same way about using dogs to hunt cougars. I do realize that the cougar population is increasing but that should make it easier to hunt them.

I have lived in Oregon all my life and have only seen one cougar in this state, in BC I have seen several. My Dad grew up in TIllamook fishing the rivers and hunting and to date has never seen a cougar.

I wasn't trying to attack anyone. Jerry Dove just made it seem as though you can no longer hunt for Bear and Cougar. Bait and Dogs are no longer allowed but you can still hunt for them. My Uncle used to (maybe still does) he didn't use dogs so I assumed he searched them out himself. He had some great skins on the wall of his den.

Gun Rod Bow · 01-10-2003, 08:26 PM

V Green,

You are playing in to the ANTIS hands if you think hunting has to be FAAAAIR [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Is it fair to use monofilament line, steel hooks, manmade atractants, manufactured lures, graphite rods etc..etc... To catch a poor small brained fish?

Wouldn't it be FAAAAIR if we had to catch fish with our hands instead? Please...

I have hunted black bears in BC. ANY Game Warden in the province would track down a story of bears shot out of a tree and prosecute. FOR SURE. Don't use examples like that to argue against lawfull sport hunting.

Is it fair for a man to use pointing dogs to find pheasants?

If you bait bears, which are primarily nocturnal, it will give you the opportunity to look them over, check on sex, check for cubs, etc.. Something you flat cannot do when you get a glimpse cross canyon.

Same goes for dogs for cats or bears. You can choose to take or leave an animal after the dogs hold it. If you don't think running 5 miles tracking your dogs through the coast range is Fair Chase. I dissagree.

That said, I have never used either method to take a bear. I have killed a few and passed a few more. Whether or not you eat it, has no bearing on right or wrong.

If you choose (Like Me) to not use dogs or bait, great for you. Don't sing from your imagined moral high ground if others choose to hunt with this way.

Thats more than my .02, but this strikes a nerve.

We are responsible to manage the world which we have permanently changed. Is that FAAAIR?

No, Just the responsible thing to do.

GRB

skein · 01-10-2003, 08:27 PM

You guys have probably picked up on the fact that I am pretty damn hot about all this. I need more information, so Monday I will pursue it with ODFW, hoping I can get all the way to Director Ball.

Quote:

...the hound club is going ahead tomorrow without the department.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">The hunters will have to go it alone - but that's not the way we handled it when the hatcheries were threatened. ODFW didn't have to go that one alone. I think it's a conviction and courage thing. I'm truly disappointed.

Skein

V. Green · 01-10-2003, 08:45 PM

Gun Rod Bow

I never said anything about moral high ground??? I just stated my opinion and that it works for me. Just as you are intitled to your opinion and to state it I am also intitled to do so.

Quote:

I have no issue with anyone hunting or fishing as long as they will eat what they get. If you wont eat it don't kill it. If you will eat it, fire away .

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">And if you think I am playing into PETA's hands by believing that you should eat what you kill then so be it. My father who at one time was an avid hunter, fisherman and commercial fisherman tought me to eat what I kill or don't kill it at all. I am sorry if my view of sportsmanship is different than yours but it is my opinion.

People are always attacking the ODF&W. For the most part this department always stands up for the sportsman whether it be a hunter or fisher. They have been providing us with opportunity and knowledge for which we should be grateful. In the end I suspect that ODF&W will agian be a part of this event.

Kruechief · 01-15-2003, 07:10 AM

My sweet mother had a steadfast rule about killing and eating.

When I was around 10-years-old I was caught red-handed taking out a song bird.

MMMMM......boy that sucked! :tongue:

Krue

PS: It's amazing though if that same bird had been in HER garden or berries then it was fair game.

Norm · 01-15-2003, 09:44 AM

I usually follow the eat what you kill, but not always. I shoot starlings to keep them out of the berries. I kill gophers, moles,mice, and rats because they are pests, but wouldn't eat one. I would take a bear, coyote, or couger for the hide. Although bear sausage isn't bad, I don't relish the thought of coyote stew. I think hunting with hounds and bait for couger or bear is justified since you are better able to identify mothers with young than shooting one in a chance encounter. I really think the overall game management in the state should be left up to the ODFW. Removing the use of dogs and bait just takes away a management tool. And if PETA has thier way, we will all be vegans.

skein · 01-15-2003, 12:21 PM

Do vegetarians make death threats? Well, these veggies did!

The main reason ODFW "postponed" the hunt was because of death threats against their employees over the hunt. My aim is to see that those people who made the threats, or the organization that turns a blind eye to them, are tracked down and dealt with. Can you imagine what would have transpired if a hunter had made a death threat against one of them? It would have made national news.

I've been in contact with Tony Burk and Ann Snyder, and will stay with this. Anybody has the right to protest. NOBODY has the right to threaten.

Skein