Why the decline?

[dla]

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/ODFWhtml/...formation.html

(1st) Question: Why the decline?

(2nd) Question: Will the new fee increases further the decline?

[dla]

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/496.html
"
496.012 Wildlife policy. It is the policy of the State of Oregon that wildlife shall be managed to prevent serious depletion of any indigenous species and to provide the optimum recreational and aesthetic benefits for present and future generations of the citizens of this state. In furtherance of this policy, the State Fish and Wildlife Commission shall represent the public interest of the State of Oregon and implement the following coequal goals of wildlife management:

(1) To maintain all species of wildlife at optimum levels.

(2) To develop and manage the lands and waters of this state in a manner that will enhance the production and public enjoyment of wildlife.

(3) To permit an orderly and equitable utilization of available wildlife.

(4) To develop and maintain public access to the lands and waters of the state and the wildlife resources thereon.

(5) To regulate wildlife populations and the public enjoyment of wildlife in a manner that is compatible with primary uses of the lands and waters of the state.

(6) To provide optimum recreational benefits.

(7) To make decisions that affect wildlife resources of the state for the benefit of the wildlife resources and to make decisions that allow for the best social, economic and recreational utilization of wildlife resources by all user groups. [1973 c.723 §6; 1993 c.659 §2; 2001 c.762 §6]
"

I guess #3 & #6 aren't doing so well.

[STGRule]

The fatal flaw in your reasoning is that you failed to account for non-consumptive users (who by the way far outnumber consumptive users). If you add them in you would find that #3 and #6 are covered very well. And the graph is of no use to your point if you don't overlay the cost of those licenses over those same years. I believe you would still see the declines even when the costs were stable. It might be interesting to overlay the urban/rural population shifts from the census. That may explain more. Also the median age of the population. I don't know what that would show. Probably the most telling would be the inflation rate and median income adjusted for inflation.

[ 01-03-2004, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

I feel that the decline in hunting has to do more with the urbanization of the population rather than the cost of a license.

[glassblower]

I know a large number of people who have in recent years gave up either hunting or fishing and for some both due to the higher cost of tags and licenses. You will probably continue to see a decline in sales as the years go on also. Fact is people are tired of paying more and more to do the things they enjoy.

[dla]

STGRule: I'm not sure I agree with your "non-consumptive versus consumptive users" theory. In fact, I think you ought to explain what you mean.

OK, I've posted enough graphs. This information comes from the source I gave you in the first post.

[WaterDog]

And you could also look at the data and say that due to the decline in license and tag sales coupled with the increased cost of services those that choose to persue this sport have had to pick up the tab and then some.

Let's see a graph that shows that same revenue vs ODFW expenses....... [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

The neat thing about graphs and data is you can use some it, or all of it, and manipulate it anyway you want.........

Keta, I would agree with you.

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

Well if tag sales are declining how come ya have to stake out a rock at midnight to get a place to fish any more?

[David Johnson]

Fact is people are tired of paying more and more to do the things they enjoy.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Then how come so many people keep shelling out the bucks to to go to the movies, skiing/snowboarding, carnaval etc, etc, etc, when those prices keep increasing too?

Those who don't like the Oregon fees should go fishing in Canada, talk about bending you over....how about $22 a day per river on top of your license.

[ 01-03-2004, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: David Johnson ]

[GutshotApe]

The truth is that hunting & fishing licenses in Oregon have not kept pace with inflation. Licenses cost a lot more (in constant dollar value) in the 1950s and 1960s than they do now, after 50 years of inflation.

[JohnB]

I see these data differently. The fact is that the number of people fishing is declining not just in Oregon but across the US. The ASA reports a decline of more than 10% in the number of licensed fishermen between 1998 and 2002. Fishing is a declining sport.

There are many factors involved I suspect, including the cost of licenses and equipment, and the decimation of our fisheries caused by pollution, dams, and all the other usual suspects.

But I also believe that are more reasons. How much trash do you find at the side of the river? How many times have you been sworn at by another fishermen on the water? How often have you seen inconsiderate and illegal activities while fishing? Whatever happened to the golden rule and respect for nature? Is this the wholesome environment you want to have your son or daughter experience as a sport?

I think there is another factor too. The truth is most of the fish we chase are difficult to catch. Increasingly people have become less willing to share their fishing knowledge. I know there is more to fishing than just catching but to a newcomer, it’s important. If someone goes out several times and has no luck he/she may be apt to call it quits.

I think all of these factors are contributing to the decline in fishing. The real danger in my mind is that fishing has traditionally been a solitary sport, and is not well organized. However those who oppose, or show benign neglect towards fishing certainly are. Im willing to bet that PETA could put more people on the doorsteps of the capital than we could. I believe we are at very significant risk of becoming just another minority interest and soon we will see even less support for our sport.

What can we do? I think boards like IFISH are invaluable in the role they play towards educating all of us and to the sense of community that is built. Each of us needs to support efforts like this with both our money and openly sharing our knowledge. we should remove the term zipperlip from our vocabulary or we too will be contributing to the demise of fishing.

If we don’t all become ACTIVE supporters of our sport, we stand the risk of participating in its death. We are well past the time when we can assume that someone else will look out for us. Please join a group, send money, clean up streams, help others, take someone new fishing, find a way to contribute to its growth.

Sorry for the long post.

[ 01-03-2004, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: JohnB ]

[dla]

JohnB: That wasn't a very long post - you did good :smile:

Just one thing though: I have a problem with these "groups" because they don't represent the common man. The Gortex-covered Prima-Donnas with their $500 dollar outfits and their $500 tackle being pampered by guides do not represent the average Oregonian.

And the guides don't represent the common Oregonian either. Why? Cause the common Oregonian doesn't have the $ to hire a guide.


Looks like hunting and fishing are becomming the sport of kings.

[blacktail519]

I think that alot of people have given up on the sport due primarily to frustration. people who have fished 30 years see the way things are today and are in disgust. 20 years ago you didnt have to read the paper or call odfw the day before you went salmon fishing just to see if it was open or not.And as you can see, sturgeon is down the same road. FRUSTRATION FRUSTRATION!!!!!

[freespool]

I know several people that gave up fishing when we had all the ocean closures. And the real stopper was nonretention of wild fish. These guys said if I can't keep it I'm not fishing.


salmon hugger

[corkyking]

I wrote out a bunch of examples of waste and abuse of the fishing public's trust and money and then suddenly decided that I've seen everything I'm complaining about and more already on this board.

Before the Boldt decision and the light coming on for the petty bureaucrats things were alot better. There were still complaints but......... I don't know, maybe it's because I hadn't yet paid for 40 years for my lessons.

[Born to be Wild]

I know very few people that have given up hunting and/or fishing.
I do know a couple of them and I am one of them.

I gave up hunting approx. 5 years ago.
I guess it was for several different reasons.
I had dear and elk going bad in my freezer because I never got around to cooking it anymore.
Couldn't justify going out killing them anymore if I wasn't eating them even though I thourghly enjoyed out smarting blacktails.
Took a local from Depoe Bay and showed him where I had shot a few elk back near the bullsbag on the Siletz and he used poor edicut and ruined a friend of mine's hunt. Kind of soured me.

And then I learned how, where and when to catch coho up in SW Washington and simply decided I had more fun chasing silvers in the fall than chasing blacktails.

So I am one of the statistics in the decline of hunting license in Oregon.
Next year however I will help Washingtons hunting license incline. :grin:
I'm going to start hunting again.
I have too many friends up here that hunt and there just are too many deer and elk around the Longview area.

I think part of the reason for the decline is because of the way kids are being raised these days and for some time back.

Kids grow up with computers and the games that come with them and all the other technology and toys our materialistic society is blessed with.

I believe as a lot of the old timers pass on and our generation (I'm approaching 50 - fast!) gets older and some drop out, there just aren't the recruits to replace them like there used to be.

I think that is good and bad.
Fishing is a good hobby to get kids and adults both involved in, but at the same time as the population explosion takes place, our rivers continue to get over crowded and that is a turn off in itself to a lot of folks.
Not to mention that a lot of species can't handle all the extra pressure thus the reduced seasons and bag limits.
I think sturgeon fishing is a perfect example of what can take place when a fishery is over exploited.

But I think it has a lot to do with the kids.
They are a different breed today than that of yesteryear.

I do have a friend in Longview that was a very successfull hunter but does not hunt anymore.
He told me that he decided approx. 5 years ago he just couldn't afford to both fish and hunt so he quit hunting and fishes alot.
But I think I'll be able to talk him into chasing some bulls around next year.

Dano

[Mello-Yello]

Regardless of the increasing costs of hunting and fishing, I can't imagine giving it up for that reason. There are a lot of other things I could/would give up first.

For me personally, Tags and Licenses are a relatively insignificant cost when compared to all the other expenses associated with my hunting and fishing.

As for the decline is license sales, another issue that I'll throw into the pot is the aging of the "baby boomers". We're talking about a lot of middle-aged folks here that are hanging up their hunting/fishing gear.

M-Y

[dla]

I notice that hunting is declining much faster than fishing. I think it is a combination of (a) cost (b)ODFW policy resulting in less opportunity (c)private timber company land access

[Mello-Yello]

I think it's due more to lack of interest. :grin:

A very serious issue that we're all facing too is the ever increasing numbers of singe-parent families, where Mom's raising the kids and Dad's not fathering his children (or Mom's not letting him).

In the eyes of the majority, fishing is much more acceptible than hunting. No furry fuzzies being killed, no firearms, etc, etc. Then again, as move into the post-Nemo era, this could change too. I mean really, how could someone kill and eat a fish, knowing what close relationships they have with the rest of their family.

[dla]

Mello: You may be on to something. I'm not going to post another graph (sortof boring), but when you look at the crime rates (bureau of justice statistics), the crime starts rising just as Oregon hunting licenses start falling. Interesting.

[flop eared mule]

I see it more of a access issue then anything else. More and more land is being posted and no ones wants to go to a river just to find 20 of your closest friends all lined up on a run. I wish there some policy in ODFW such that they could purchase land along a river bank so we could spread out more. I really don't know the answer to this. Places like NF Nehalem and three rivers come to mind. Hatchery on the river but little or no access for the number of anglers fishing there. Not only on these rivers but I see it everywhere. This I think turns more people off then anything.

Is it a organization issue where land could be purchased on NF nehalem?

Just a thought.
--j

[Okie]

The fishing and hunting problem is directly connected to the population increase of Oregon. More people, more hunters, more fishermen on the same amount of rivers and land. It's a nobody wins situation. Wait in line to take your turn to fish and hunt.

[glassblower]

I used to hunt every year, and have basicaly gave it for a few reasons. First off was expense, second & third there are to many gates going up and keeping us from getting into the woods, and what areas are left are slam packed with hunters and alot of them are inexperianced and do things that make me very nervous to be out in the woods with them. Forth I keep seeing sick animals, and am not to sure I want to be eating them. Fifth, I think you get alot more out of fishing than you do hunting, time wise anyway. You can fish year round for somthing but hunting is pretty short lived. Sixth I think fishing is more relaxing and fun with friends than hunting. So I have stuck to fishing over hunting, and do not if or when I will hunt again, that will mostly I think depend on seing less sick animals out there in the woods. Anouther thing that got to me was years ago when they dumped "hunters choice for those last couple of weeks" that was a final shot at meat in the freezer.

[ 01-05-2004, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: glassblower ]

[Smj]

flop eared mule hit it on the head!

That is the main reason the costal streams in my area have'nt seen any of my money for several years. Now aren't we lucky, we've got broodstock going in the metro streams BUT, no more fish to catch in late Nov. Dec..

I always thought part of the problem with hatchery fish was they all returned at the same time, allowing a whole year class to be wiped out if a serious flood came along. Seems to me their doing the same thing now, only with brooders.

I love fishing, but every year there seems to be less and less water available to fish. ( unless you don't mind standing shoulder to shoulder with other people that is)

Smj

[ 01-05-2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Smj ]

[freespool]

Okie the graphs show less people buying hunting and fishing licenses. It also shows total revenues going up. So less people hunting and fishing,but they are paying more to do so.


free

[SlimPickens]

Why the decline?

nintendo, DVD, internet, computer games, X box, etc etc.

The latest generations are more interested in INDOORS rather than OUTDOORS.

Drag those kids out of the house to a fast action fishery, comfortable fishery. Take your neighbors kids fishing/hunting too!

[Mello-Yello]

Your right Shad boy, but it doesn't just include the kids. Bottom line is, there's a lot more fun things to do these days than there were 20 years ago. Peoples interests are being drawn in so many new directions that there's just no time to do everything one wants to do.

For us hardcores, hunting and fishing take the precedence, but that's the exception, not the norm. There's been more than one occasion where I've wondered "what the heck am I doing here?" Only my stubborn love for the sport keeps me there.

M-Y

[dla]

Shad Boy: It wasn't too long ago that it was easier for 16yr old to get their driver's license than to get their hunting license.

I wonder if over-regulation is hurting?

You still have to know which rock you're standing on when fishing - which I've never understood why the ODFW was so paranoid.

[Okie]

Freespool; There may be less people hunting and fishing and paying more, but more and more when I go fishing the parking lot is full and you can't find a place to park your trailer after you launch your boat. And the bank fishermen are elbo to elbo in the good places of fishing. And hunting has been a drawing situation for quiet a few years now. It all adds up to too many sportsman and a shortage of rivers and hunting areas.

[Silver Hilton]

I quit hunting over 20 years ago. I decided that I don't need to kill something to appreciate it. Nothing against those who still hunt, it's just not my cup of tea anymore.

I suspect that the decline in hunting is due mostly to lost access. It is pretty darn hard to find a place to deer hunt anymore. When I was a kid, we all hunted on each others' land. Now, the various new owners all post the land, and don't want to talk about sharing access. Sad.

[Tanner]

Amen. This is what I do with my two.

Why the decline?

nintendo, DVD, internet, computer games, X box, etc etc.

The latest generations are more interested in INDOORS rather than OUTDOORS.

Drag those kids out of the house to a fast action fishery, comfortable fishery. Take your neighbors kids fishing/hunting too!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">

[salmoncatcher]

this year i didn't purchase a waterfowl liscense due to the restrictions on NAS Whidbey. some of the rules are just stupid. a hunter has to be escorted by an MP to the site and return a pass when finished for the day. the MPs are a bunch of &lt;employees doing their job&gt;, that is another reason why i don't hunt there. another reason why i didn't purchase a licsense is because i can shoot ducks less than 200 yards from my house on my neighbors property. why spend $40 if i can kill them in my backyard. the last reason i didn't purchase a license is that there are just to many people where i used to hunt which were around the skagit wildlife area.

[ 01-05-2004, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Pete ]

[dla]

Tanner: I haven't chased bunnies since I was kid in Montana. Good picture!

[dla]

So lets see if I got this right: Less people are participating, but those who do complain that there are too many people crowding into too few locations.

There are much fewer people hunting, which should mean much less pressure on wildlife. Yet the ODFW is continuing the Eastside drawing system.

Fishing license revenue has risen substantially to manage a fishery that has fewer participants.

Hunting licence revenue has remained constant I guess (I've not included tags). So half as many people are paying twice as much. But the bag limits have remained the same. (you don't get to take two Elk).

[dla]

btt

[Mello-Yello]

You got it!

[garyk]

I think there's a lot of truth in what Silver Hilton said - basically - a lot of people when they get older just don't feel the need to kill game.

I look to my own large extended family where most of my uncles were deer hunting fanatics. In the week leading up to opening-day, with all the planning and coffee table conferences, you might have thought we were going to war - rather than just chasing some whitetails around.

Anyways, 25 years later, now I think only one of the bunch still hunts - even though there's far more whitetails and better hunting than when we were all so eager. Now the uncles put up backyard feeding stations and do all the deer and bear shooting with cameras.

This trend fits well with the overall graying of America. The average age is increasing. Furthermore, while the overall population is increasing, the majority of this increase is due to immigration, and most of the newcomers are coming from nations with no tradition of sports hunting by commoners.

Increased age and increasingly urban population are the primary reasons, I believe, for the decline in hunting especially, and fishing as well.

[ 01-05-2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: garyk ]

[dla]

Silver Hilton & Okie: It would be interesting to see how the season lengths and access have changed over the years.

I know hunting access has declined. I remember when Cavenough put the gates in on what is now Weyerhauser property. This last year Bow Hunters couldn't even walk in. Thats a lot of land off limits to hunters.

[cosmo]

Shad Boy,
You went right to the core of the matter. I've been at ICAST shows for eight years in a row now and the recruitment of the next generation is always tops in industry discussion.
The whole "Take Me Fishing" ad campaign was was brought out to remind folks of the vitues of fishing.

[dla]

garyk: I understand how tastes change. I don't care much for just blasting any old Bambi. But I do enjoy the hunt.

Similar with fishing. I like to wander the banks flogging the water. Once in a while I tag a fish, but it's not all that important.

[ssteelheadsteve]

David J
Canada is still the best fishing for the dollar anywhere in the world.Very cheap compared to Alaska or Patogonia.Eh ?
Demopgraphics and Fishing ?
Consider that MOST the people here are not from around here and for the most part do not hunt or fish and wish you wouldn't.

Can Oregon Trout & PETA.

[boater]

Originally posted by David Johnson:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Fact is people are tired of paying more and more to do the things they enjoy.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Then how come so many people keep shelling out the bucks to to go to the movies, skiing/snowboarding, carnaval etc, etc, etc, when those prices keep increasing too?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">dave, they can do those things whenever they want to unlike fishing "used" to be, in the "good old days" there were longer seasons and if you felt like going fishing you would go, now days you have to constantly keep track of the changing regulations and alot of people got sick of it and i know more than one person that quit fishing because of that.

speaking of canada, i`m going up there for my major fishing vacation this year, unlike washington, they actualy want my money.