Speed vs Weight (archery)

[Abalone]

There seems to be two camps on Arrow weight.

Light fast arrow for accuracy

Heavy heavy arrows for Bone crushing.

I am using 400 grain arrows and .125 grain tips.
Which strikes me as kind of middle of the road.

I have no experience killing anything with a bow.
So how about some opinions on the subject.

We are talking about Elk and or Deer.

Found this on the net:
Q: How important is arrow speed versus kinetic energy?
- James Oglesonn

A: There’s a happy medium there, and this is something that could be argued for days. The smaller shafts are faster, have less drag, so there’s deeper penetration. A heavier shaft will produce more energy, but smaller shafts have less downwind drag and also less drag as they enter the animal. It’s kind of like if you’re trying to drive a landscape spike versus a 16-penny nail, the nail is going to drive easier.

[sliverpicker]

My arrows weigh about 640 to 650 grains, including the 125 gr broadhead. Basically 10 grs per pound of draw weight. Never had any problem getting my fir logs, 11/32" and 23/64" to penetrate!

sp

[brdkdg]

What type of bow are you shooting and how fast is the bow?

[Abalone]

My Bow is a Martin III nitrox cams.

When I bought it, it shot 295fps set at 65#s.

[lor]

Last time I weighted them, my aluminum arrows come in a 540gr dipped and crested, with the bow set to 73#, my arrows clock
at 240-250 fps.

[dla]

To me, it's a matter of range and animal reaction time. Heavy arrows are as accurate at light arrows. But slow arrows require better range estimation.

Unless your bow is dead silent (none exist), or unless you have some cover noise (wind & rain), the animal is going to hear your bow. Speed of sound is 1089fps.

Animal reaction time varies, but it is pretty quick. I watched a bull (that was looking at us) elk spin around at the sound of a shot from 55yds. The arrow was launched at 250fps. The same speed arrow whacked an Elk as it was hunching to run at 30yds and that Elk didn't know I was there.

My point is that there are other factors other than arrow speed to consider.

I general, momentum (mass X velocity) is most important, followed by frontal area and shaft diameter. I.e. a skinny first-generation carbon shaft will penetrate much better than a fat pop-can at the same velocity, same broadhead.

Regarding bone: the biggest problem is deflection. I.e. the arrow deflecting on a rib and then carving a totally unexpected path through the animal. Heavier arrows deflect less, but bones are to be avoided. Hit the squishy part :smile:

[Abalone]

Archery season is still a ways off. Enough time to adjust my poundage all the way to 70. I am down to just four arrows and will soon load up. All I know about now are the Gold tips.

Several things concern me. My bow was originally adjusted to a 31 inch draw and now it's set to 29 inches. The arrows that I have left are all cut to the 31 inch length. I would have assumed that I would shorten the arrow length but was told to leave them for the added weight and stay with .125 tips.

So at some point I will have to decide to use a shorter but heavier Arrow ?

This kind of stuff seems very subjective.

One guy I know that shoots really really well and has 100 yard pin, uses a very light arrow with short veins. He is very good at the 20 yard target and I would suspect that he would be good at any range. But I think his choice for light arrows is because he's thinking about long range shots. At least that's how he describes his hunts.

So if he's looking for 100 yards shots is he going to miss seeing closer opportunties ?

By that I mean it's seems like anticipating a long shot you may not work a little harder to get close to the animal ?

[Hunt-man]

There is a book called Balanced Bowhunting, by Dave Holt, that covers this subject really well. Try to find a copy if you can.

I shoot light / fast arrows. That gives me more margin for range errors. I use razor sharp, factory sharp, broadheads. All my arrows have passed through the animals I shot. Shot placement is still key, doesn't matter what weight arrow you shoot (Unless you can feel good about wounding an aminal, ex: neck / butt shots).

If you can be accurate and consistant with light / fast that would be me reccomendation. Make sure you arrows leave the bow straight and fly straight, that greatly affects penetration.

JH

[dla]

Abalone : As you shorten the shaft, you increase it's stiffnes (spine). Before you change anything, see how it shoots.

You should be able to hold all your shots at 20yds to 2" or less. If you can't, get somebody to take a look at your form.

Your finished arrow weight of 525grs is heavy enough.

Standing and making relaxed shots at targets is useful, but I've never had a shot like that at an animal. You need to come up with a way to get some realistic pressure (limited time, weird shooting positions, unknown range, etc.).

There's a lot more to the shot than arrow speed and components.

By the way, regarding people with 100yd pins, the speed of sound is still 1089fps. So unless you're hunting deaf animals......

[Abalone]

Thanks dla.

Yes: I have the 20 yard range down and shoot outside at 30 and 40 on level ground. I am ready for some field action.

My groups at 20 are 2inchs.

When I shoot outside I really concentrate on getting my first arrow on the money whether it is 20 30 or 40 yards.

After that it's just practice. But somebody told me
" It's only the first one that counts"

Making the first one count is a way of putting pressure on myself.

I haven't even attempted up hill, down hill or shooting from on my knees.

I am hoping somebody comes along willing to show me.
My teacher has been working at the coast and I haven't seen him in about two weeks.

It's funny how that is, I only trust about two people to show me anything. I hate the range because of all the Volunteer opinions. I can't believe all the B.S. I get.
I can usually tell in about ten seconds if the guy knows what he's talking about. All I have to do is see him shoot.

If he's in the X ? He's in..........

[Abalone]

Also: Where I hunt is relatively flat. There are some ups and downs of course but I have been thinking about where to set up some up and down hill shots and it's not easy to find them where I hunt unless I walk a mile or so..

[Beeatease]

Do some 3D shoots.....there is a range that's open all the time in Silverton (Vern's Archery)and Sylvan Archers has a 3D always set up.

Plus there are shoots throughout the state most every weekend.

[TheKing]

Shoot off of the roof of your house for downhill practice.

I shoot heavy arrows ( 800 grains)out of heavy long and selfbows( 90lbs) so I do not lack for speed or kenetic enegry. I would say just about any combination of Bow and arrow that meets AMO standards will do the job for you on a standing broadside shot on avg deer. But I believe in hunting and specifically in archery you have to plan for the worst. If you think speed will help you then work with it as much as it is reasonable. I think confidnce in your set up is more important than the actual set up. When I first got into archery I went through a few bows trying to get as much speed as possible. It never really helped me and I gravitated to the trad world anyhow. Put the arch back in archery:-)