Questions about Lab pups

[Wak]

I am looking to buy a new lab before Christmas. I have a great duck dog that was given to me, but have never started with a pup.
Can someone help me out with what to look for in a puppy? Or does anyone know of any for sale now? I see the sky is the limit on price but I only want to spend around $300.
Thanks for any advice in advance.

[ 12-16-2002, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Wak ]

[1pump]

I still have my first Lab, a chocolate female. I picked the most agressive female puppy in the litter of 5 males and 5 females, which may have been a mistake. She was fairly easy to train but a handful behavior-wise. She's 12 now and still acts like a puppy. I wanted a female for breeding but when I got her hips x-rayed for OFA papers she had just enough displaysia in one hip to disqualify her. Her parents weren't OFA which was probably another mistake. Her parents weren't hunters either, but I don't think it's an issue. It was obvious from her first trip she was born to hunt. (like all Labs)
About 3 years ago my (ex)wife picked up a black male puppy. His behavior in his litter was middle-of-the-road. He was interested in the human visitors but he didn't knock all the other puppies out of the way to get to us. He was much more laid back than my female.
Both their personalities were pretty evident at 7 weeks. One was a spaz, the other was mellow. If I had to do it again I'd go with the easy-going dog for a pet. For hunting my hard headed female was better. It's just a matter of what you want in a dog. And what color.
I'd definitely try to get good hips, dewclaws removed and get the pup wormed right away.

[King Kong]

I too chose the most aggressive female from the litter of 3 males and 2 females. She is 6 and is still hard for my wife to deal with when I am not around. She is a little too active for her own good. She was born and bred for hunting. Her parents were both high level hunters. Sire from Sunnyside kennel, national field champ, and dam from sunnyview, master hunter. I would spend some time with the pups and try to pick out some characteristics that you are looking for. It is a very difficult choice. Go with what you think is right.

[ 12-16-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: kevin king ]

[Lured In]

Wak...that's great to hear you want to get a new pup, but...I would encourage you to consider a few things first. (not that you haven't, just more food for thought.)

Buying a pup should be something that takes at least a certain amount of research. Given the time of year, you will probably find a lot of 'puppy mills' with pups 'ready' for Christmas. These are backyard breeders and will have a pup in your price range. More than likely it will be a ***** shoot on what the traits on in the dog. Most do not come with papers and the breedings are not necessarily pure bred.

I waited for 2 years before I finally felt like I had enough info to make a good decision on a pup. I researched breeders, trainers, books, and even pedigree's.

If you love dogs, especially labs, you have to keep in mind some of the genetic traits that are not good. Such as eye and hip problems. There are never any guarentees that prevent these, even from top breeders. But, REAL breeders go to great lengths to make sure the pup will grow up to be healthy, happy, and love to hunt.

My advice is decide to wait and look around for awhile. If you want a good pup, take some time and don't set your hopes on finding it before Christmas. (I'll step off the soap box now. )

As far as what to look for, start with what you know you want and prioritize it.

for example
1. Pedigree is clean with documented hip and eye certifications on the parents.
2. Titles, etc that may be indicative of good hunting genetics. (this tends to drive the price of the pups more than anything. The more titles the Sire has, the bills you will shell out.
3. Color if applicable. (some people believe that labs only come in one color. )
4. price. Some breeders will cut you a deal if you promise not to breed the dog. Other's have quality dogs that don't have papers. A dog without AKC (etc.) status cannot compete in high dollar competitions, therefore the price is less. Just an FYI I paid $850 for my pup back in January. I didn't even ask about price until I found the first 3 things I was looking for.
5. When is the litter available. A good litter is worth waiting for.

There are some heavy hitters in the dog world on this board. Tilla, Labs4me and Cap'n Dan to name a few. I am sure they will offer some great advice.

Here are a couple kennels that I looked at given the timing of litters, etc.

www.oregonretrievers.com
www.duckdog.com

Good luck.

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Consider chessies, I know of a couple of good pups still avaliable out of the litter I got my new female out of.
Email me if Interested

[Flatfish]

I don't know what the going rate is right now, BUT spend the extra money on hips, eyes, and anything else you can get a promise of refund on. My lab has 1 elbow surgery( at 13 months ags) and needs another. His hips are beginning to get stiff as he gets out of bed. And I can tell that he cannot see as well as other dogs his age. He is 6. Hardly retirement age. My next pup will come with a seal of approval for no other reason as I feel sick to my stomach thinking that either I get to drop 10 grand into my dogs skeleton, or watch him become crippled by the pain. An OFA pup may cost 500- 1000 dollars. Jakes 1st surgery cost 1100 bucks. Hardly a bargain.
Mark and the dog.

[Small Fry]

Wak
I have a buddy that has a litter of lab pups about 3 weels old. I know they have papers but thats all. Email me and i'll put you in touch if your interested.

He's in the Hillsboro area

[Boedy]

I know of a good hunting litter also its in Albany and I think they still have one pup left. Both parents OFA good and both from Field trial lines. I know mother is 90 pounds working size and dad just as big. Let me know if you want more information.

[Tilla]

Take your time. This will be your best friend for hopefully a dozen years or more. There are some great private breeders around. Hawaiian Time who is on this board had a good one for sale a few weeks ago and may have some ideas. Same with Cap'n Dan. You might save just a few more dollars and try to insure the best integrity in breedings.

[crabbait]

Seven years ago, I bought a yellow lab pup and , like you, wanted to spend about $300. I looked at several litters and settled on a dog from a local breeder. The sire was full of fire but the dam looked a little haggard. What could you expect from a girl with 11 pups? The males hips were certified but the females were not: "Just never got around to it. Besides, it is no garuntee".

I brought the dog home and loved it from the first day. By the time it was four months, however, I discovered that all labs are not the same. As far as retrieving goes, he could take it or leave it, mostly leave it after the second or third throw. No big deal.

By the time he was six months, I knew we had physical problems. I took him in to the vet who, after giving him a thorough going over, informed me that his hip joints were not growing right and that basically he would never be capable of any kind of physical activity without pain. At that time, he could not even lay on the couch without being in discomfort. His hind legs crossed when he stood. I had to have a beautiful, loving pup put down. His picture is still over the mantle.

Shortly thereafter, I went to Sunnyview labs and got Nicky (see avatar). The difference in the two dogs was like night and day. Nick will retrieve all day, is mellow and attentive and hips OFA Excellent.

Bottom line: All labs are not the same. Save your pennies and get the dog with the quality built in. If it ain't bred there you can't train it in, especially when it comes to hips, eyes and desire.

You will be living with this dog for the next ten to twelve years +, God willing. Don't cheat yourself with a "bargain".

[ 12-16-2002, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[Labsforme]

You have been given some great advice already.Something else to demand is health guarantees on hips(OFA and/or Penn hip),eyes(CERF),elbows(OFA),eip(exercise induced paralisis),and muscular myapothy(sp).Any good breeder will give a WRITTEN health guarantee.Most of the above diseases are genetic.Another local breeder is Lee Salmon
at Windriver Labs.Pups are fun and grow up to be lifelong companions and hunting buddies.Start off with the best you can afford.

[Chukrchaser]

I have to second crabbait's story-- it happened to me as well -- learned the hard way -- "somebody's good huntin'dog bred to his buddy's good huntin' dog" is a recipe for heartbreak. Pedigree and xray's -- worth the $.

And be careful of the "last" pup left in a litter -- without siblings to watch it interact with you won't be able to tell as much about it's behavioral characteristics -- good way to end up with a timid pup.

Chuck

[blackdog]

Something to consider when buying your pup is that the cost of the pup will be the least of your expenses throughout the life of the dog. Heck, you'll spend nearly $300 every year just in food alone, not to mention regular vet bills, training (dummies, birds, e-collars, etc, and hopefully a good training program to follow), replacing your wife's shoes the pup will inevitably chew up, etc.

So, my advice, like others have said, take your time. Identify what you really want out of your dog (field trial, show dog, hunting lines, family dog, etc.) and make the effort to do the research to find the best dog available that suits your search criteria. I went the opposite way (buddy's papered female bred by the neighbor's stud) and feel I got lucky as my boy hunts real well and is a great family dog. However, I've seen and heard of too many horror stories going this way.

Either way, good luck in your search. My last bit of advice, read all you can from some of the noted trainers and pick a training program you like. There's lots of good ones out there to follow (DL Walters - not Richard Wolters, Mike Lardy, Evan Graham, etc.).

[Beaver93]

I just got my pup. I contacted Doug Shade from Minoggie Kennels on Sauvie Island:

www.minoggiekennels.com

I received a hips and eyes guarantee. Quincy is the Sire.

I picked the most aggressive of the females in the group. I picked each dog up and settled on the dog that didn't struggle to get down. I rolled her on her back and played a little bit. She was playful, but submissive compared to the others. At home she has been a dream. She has started puppy retrieves and has tons of desire. Her nose is in the wind on walks in the park.

Call Doug, he'll help you out.

[steelheadslayer]

Wak, you have been given a ton of advice which is all good. The only thing I disagree with is that all labs are the same regardless of color. Granted, there are good and bad dogs of all breeds. I like a black dog, I've seen some excellent yellows at field trials and hunting trials but, now this is only my opinion, chocolates are sold because someone wanted something different. Take your time. Do not get a dog from Joe who's Brutus bred Henrys Sadie who both hunt. You might get lucky this way or you might not. If you can wait, go to some field trials this spring. Contact any of the kennels or retriever clubs in this area, there's lots of good ones. Check some out at the Sportsmans show in Feb. I would personally avoid field trial parents unless you can watch both of them and see if their temperament suits you. I once got a dog out Trievens Classical Jazz which in 1988 was the hot dog around here. She was so wired, I couldn't handle her, and the behavior in the blind drove me nuts. My dog now is great. I saw both parents at hunt trials and spoke at length with the breeder and some other people who train a lot about what I needed. That is the only way you're gonna get what works for you. TALK to the breeder. Good Luck.

[Rauly]

Beaver93 you got a great pup. I also have a dog from Quincy and would recomend Doug very highly for any of his dogs. Rauly is 6 now and in his prime.

[Mojo]

When I got Susie (12 years ago), I went to the breeders. I sat on the floor with a duck wing in my pants pocket. The first dog that came over and sniffed my pocket was Susie. I threw the wing across the kitchen floor, and she tackled her brother as they chased after it. That was the second best retrieve she ever made.

She is a very sweet dog, and a great family pet, but her hunting ability was less than stellar. She was always great on pheasants. Decent on ducks. She got pea hearted when it got cold. She didn't suck as a hunting dog, but her lack of drive sometimes infuriated me (as I ran 200 yards down river to jump in the boat and chase a cripple).

Her pedigree is respectable, but the people that bred her were not PROFESSIONAL Lab breeders. My sister-in-law was a professional breeder. She always said buy the best pedigree you can afford. I gotta second that. My next pup will be from a family line that I've hunted over for the last 10 years (3 different dogs). Exceptional pedigree, and I know several of the aunts and uncles.

[Boedy]

Steeheadslayer I can’t belive that you think that a dogs color has anything to do with how it will perform? I have a chocolate Lab and will put him up against any Black or Yellow dog with the same amount of training. That opinion is so old school and unjustified I wonder how anyone could still think that. That’s like saying someone with blue eyes is smarter then someone with brown. One gene is all the difference in a black or yellow or chocolate lab but you are going to tell us that that is the gene that makes or breaks a dog. Maybe you have heard of FTCH-AFTCH Pachanga Magnum Force or GR HRCH Gator Pt's Magnum Gentle Ben MH how about NFC Storm's Riptide Star now all these Labs are Chocolate so how do you explain that they all hold some of the highest field trial titles you can get. If its not true for them then how can it be for all other chocolates? Don’t spread wives tails unless you can back it up with some facts not just old myths?

[Wak]

I want to thank everyone for their help. It has definitely made me think about things a lot more. I really wanted to surprise the kids (and wife) on Christmas, but now that will probably not happen. I didn't realize how lucky I was in getting the dog that I have now. He is a 5 yr old Chocolate that has only a few issues in the blind, but I really can't complain.
What does a guarantee get you? If the dog is x rayed at 2 yrs, and problems are found, do you have to give him/her back to get a new pup? Do you just get your money back? Does it depend on the breeder?

$300 does not seem like much of an issue anymore. I would rather pay more now than later.

[ 12-17-2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Wak ]

[crabbait]

Wak - Discuss the garuntee with the breeder before you pick up the dog. Nobody wants to bring back a dog they have made a member of the family for two years.

My opinion: Go to the best breeder you can find and get a good look at the line you are buying into. Be forewarned that there is a tendency to breed very fast, light, wired dogs right now. These dogs are very "showy" at hunt tests because they handle like a sports car. They are bred to be able to take strong handling (electric collars, etc) without giving up. They can be a real handful to train if you are not a professional or are not willing to give the dog the amount of discipline it needs to acknowledge you as boss.

Find the temperment you need and trainability plus desire. Talk over everything before you write the check and don't let the purchase price drive you off.

One more thing: Pet insurance. $3500 last year in expenses. Over the six years, feet sewn up three times (glass in water at different places), seeds in eyes and one "soft tissue" injury that took 11 months to fully heal on its own (big ticket item to find out there was nothing I could do but wait and hope).

He is still my pride and joy.

[Capin' Dan]

Hi Wak, Boy you got the heavy hitters out on this one. Guy's this is some of the best advice I've ever seen given on this board and thanks for helping out a fellow ifisher.

#1 Pedigree, pedigree, pedigree check parents, grand and great grand for hip and eye certs. A garantee is a must and is expected for breeders today.

#2 Look at what you want and the type of dispositon and temperament that you want and ask your breeder about it.

#3 Breeders ethics, find out about your breeder. Is he in it for a business or just pumping puppies out. A good breeder is putting out a litter of puppies because they are looking for something. They are looking for the best possible dog they can get for whatever part of the sport they are competeing in.

Some questions I ask myself when I bred is temperment #1, Conformation #2, Instinct#3, trainability #4,

This is what I want in my dogs a great family member, looks good and meets breed standards this will also insure that you have a healthy/sound dog, a great hunting companion, and easy to train. If you get those four things you will have a friend for life.

[ 12-18-2002, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Capin' Dan ]

[Capin' Dan]

Steelheadslayer man you got a pair I can't believe that you actually said it. Now that it is out I will ad my .02

There is the exception to every rule. Now days we are using the black as our foundation to all the other colors of the bred. Why is that? the gene pool is much deeper for the blacks there are just plain more dogs to draw from. The yellows come second and were thier gene pool isn't as deep as the blacks they do have some top notch dogs out there. Now for the Chocolates, they are the shollowest of all the gene pools it wasn't all that long ago that this color gene was being bred out of our line. It was considered by many breeders both here and especially in Europe as a bad thing to have in your lines. It is only in recent years that they have been breeding this color true. I personally try and bred it out of my line as it gives liver colored noses to yellows and light eyes and other things that I don't like to see in yellows. It seems to have little or no effect on the blacks though. There is so much to genetics and color genes that it takes quite a while to learn about them and there effects.

So to wrap it up Go black and you will never go wrong the others are all just accidents where a chiuauaua (sp) got mixed up in the gene pool. :grin: :grin:

All kidding aside I do know of one chocolate male from some years back that had his championship and master hunter thats pretty impressive for a chocolate.

Dan!

[ 12-18-2002, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Capin' Dan ]

[steelheadslayer]

Boedy, I didn't intend to step on anyones toes with my color comments. I prefer black for numerous reasons. Capn Dan hit the nail on the head, black is the deepest gene pool. I have been to numerous field trials however not lately. That game was far to serious for me when all I wanted was a good hunting dog. Hunt trials are better for that. I have seen some great yellows and maybe there are great chocolates like the ones you mentioned. When I did trials I never saw a chocolate dog there, EVER. I did see a german shepard and a dalmation run through a started test. The yellow and chocolate colors in labs are recessive genes. Maybe some breeders out there can explain all the scientific mumbo jumbo with that. Myself, I prefer a black dog. If you have a chocolate, yellow, golden retriever or chessie and you like it and it does what you want, then you've got the perfect dog. I didn't mean to say any persons dog is worthless due to its color. I have and always will have a BLACK lab.

[Bill Monroe]

This is all terrific stuff...it should be the ilab.net, not just the ifish.net...

As for the purity of blacks over yellow over (especially) chocolate, I suppose I just got lucky. I don't know for no genetic depth and years ago just stumbled across duckdog.com. I've had two of her chocolates (the first one was hit by a car) and they're loving, devoted, committed to retrieving, faster than a speeding bullet, etc. I didn't even blink at $700. It was a bargain for the guarantees and confidence in the breeder.

As for issues in the blind, I suppose all dogs might have them. My philosophy, which is different than others', is that each dog has a different personality. I've always sorta trained my own companions. In doing so, I don't strive for perfection...which I think means you train the dog to fit perameters, no matter what. Instead, I take a more laid back (ok, lazy) route and train myself a little to deal with the personality. If I have to give some to let the dog be a little bit of its own, I give some. It's not perfection or purity of purpose, but I feel like it's more fun. That's not for everyone, of course, and it's not a criticism of perfect training. It's simply a blend of my available time and the dog that spends as much time with the family as with me in a blind.

Anyway, that's my not-so-professional two cents worth...pretty pedestrian, but she's asleep at my feet right now, waiting for me to put on my wader socks...then she'll lead me to the front door.

(PS...$300 isn't nearly enough)

[Tilla]

Ooo! I'm glad Dan went first!
I'll tell you what, open any Retriever Field Trial News and note the type and color of all the dogs that won or placed in field trials, look at the hunt tests, see what type is passing the master level.
I really don't pick by color, I look at the breeding.
If you did not utilize the Field Trial backgrounds in the breed, we would be in trouble. This is where instinct and brains are coming from.
The dogs and training methods used today are way way way ahead of where we were just 10 years ago.
Oh and if you want to keep all your fingers, don't buy a Chessie. I betcha WRO can only do the Boy scout salute.
If you do want a Chessie go to Nordom Kennels in Wa.

Doug Shade is a great breeder and trainer. He probably has the best pass rate of any Hunt Test Pro.

[SlimPickens]

Alot of good info. I recently bought a pup. Prices seem to have really gone up for a quality dog. Expect to pay at least $600.

The pedigree makes all the difference in the world. My pup is performing at a hunting level her first season equivalent to a level it took 2-3 seasons for my other lab, "backyard breeding", got to.

Another tip that I don't think was mentioned is repeat breeding by the sire and dam. If a well known breeder is mating the same dogs more than once, then more than likely the pups are turning out to be really good dogs. My pup came from a repeat breeding, whose sire was also Quincy out of Minoggie. All good things about my pup on the things that really matter. (Never mind my boat trailer has no more wiring for the lights, can't keep a tarp on anything without it getting ripped off, etc.-- small stuff). Its hard to get mad at her when she's a retrieving fool.

[Wak]

You guys are killing me.

[GutshotApe]

Maybe I was lucky. 12 years ago I paid $150 for a choc lab pup from a "backyard breeder". I picked the one with the biggest head bump from a litter of puppies in the back of a pickup in GI Joe's parking lot. The guy's 2 young daughters were in the pickup playing with the highly socialized puppies.

The dog's parents were supposedly AKC pedigree, etc., but I didn't really care and never checked. These dogs were labradors.

I gave my dog to a trainer for 30 days of intensive basic stuff - sit, stay, heel, come, and retrieve. Then did the rest of the training myself. The dog was a natural hunter and didn't need much more work. He wants to please and usually needed correction only once or twice and a sharp word is all it took.

Vet bills have been non-existent other than routine shots and neutering at age 8 mos. The dog is a big one - about 115 lbs - but until about 4 mos ago, was very active and not a "fat" dog. But he now has a dislocated hip, his hunting days are over, and frankly, his days are numbered.

But I got 11 good seasons of hunting and companionship from a very smart dog. My next one will probably be a brown lab, too, and I don't plan to pay over $200 for it.

[tag-a-long]

I agree with Lured in. My Choc came from Merganser Kennels. WWW.Duckdog.com. Might give them a look. He is fantastic

[Lured In]

Personally, the color issue isn't one. I do not intend to run field trials. I do not intend to show the dog. Unless you are a big time multimillonaire with deep pockets the level of superiority you will get with a black will not be noticeable with a family pet/duck dog.

I love my little chocolate ball of fury. Definitely from hunting stock (complete with turbo charger) and is a great family pet. I got exactly what I wanted. For those of you that are so big on blacks as a measure of success, keep in mind (statistically speaking) more blacks are washed out of field trial circuits for the same reason. (sheer numbers) I am concerned over strictly breeding for color (any including blacks). The genes are there, let them be there. Over breeding of pure chocolates or yellows, I believe does run some risks genetically speaking. There are lots of chocolate factored blacks in my pups pedigree which was something I was looking for in a chocolate.

As far as guarentees, as Tilla shared with me and was mentioned above, there is nothing that can give you you're heart back after you have worked with a pup that ends up with a genetic problem. Guarentees or not, do you really think you would give it back? That being said, again it is a sign of commitment of a breeder.

Tag...I actually got my pup from Oregon Retrievers (3 breedings of Mergansers Classic Rip N Tear MH to one of their females.) My pup's grandaddy is FC-NFC Storm's Riptide Star (choc) and FC AFC Barracuda Blue is her grandaddy on the dame's side. I looked and looked for a good breeding and finally found one where all of the pieces had come together.

I also spoke with the gentlemen at Sunnyview and a few others, but the litters they were working on were not going to be until much later in the year and did not seem to have any genetic advantages over the two that I was looking at.

A whole nother question to ask is how to pick a pup. Ask Tilla as he has the most unorthodoxed method I have heard to date. :grin:

Good luck.

[Birdnest]

I have a choc. lab that is 1.5 years old. She is AKC, however we never registered her since we had no intention of breeding her. Her pop was a Canadian champ in field trials. She is absolutely great, but here is what I have learned.

1. Pet insurance-about to drop $2000+ on a stifle repair for a blown cruciate ligament.

2. There is a new disorder that is being researched right now called EIC. It is Exercise Induced Collapse. Found most common in younger, pure bred, excitable labs, from field trial lines. After a few minutes of strenous exercise that they really enjoy (fetching) they lose motor control to their extremities. It can also be dangerous when associated with heat stroke. Not much is known right now, but from what they can tell it has something to do with fatty-acid transportation. Belle started to exhibit the symptoms at about 1 year old. I have to be careful when I exercise her with frequent breaks where I calm her down a little. This has solved the problem, but it is something that nags me when she is swimming. Total cost for work up, about $600 and I stopped the process before we went into painful/more $$$ muscle biopsies. There is a vet in Canada doing the jest of research that would be your be resource.

I am not trying to discourage you from labs, I don't think I would ever own a different breed, but be careful in your selection and protect your wallet with a little pet insurance.

Birdnest

[SlimPickens]

I looked at Bullet from OR retrievers. Great pedigree. Saw some of his offspring too. If you haven't gone down to the kennel to look at their dogs and talk with them, I would highly recommend it. For me, I had to see the dogs in person and talk with the breeder before deciding where I wanted to buy a pup.

[Wak]

Apparently I was looking at a pup from one of his last litters. I found out he has passed on.

[Wak]

Does anyone know of 'Bullet' from Oregon Retrievers?

[Boedy]

Pet insurance man I wish I had that this my list of Vet bills in the first year and a half.

$2000 - OCD left shoulder 4 months old.
$250 - Cut Paw at St Louis ponds
$500 - Shots. Check ups and X -rays
$900 - Emergence Vet
$1500 - Surgery on Broken Pelvis

Checked on Pet insurance and it was only $200 a year and would have covered 75% of this.

Oh yea the dog was $800 plus $200 for shipping to start.

Tack on the 4 months training at Utopia kennels at $500 per and you see I have one costly lab. And I wont breed him as his Hips don’t look like they will pass and I believe he has EIC also. He is still a hunting fool and a great dog but I have pulled him from training for the time being. Both parents OFA good and Excellent so even with that there is no fool proof way to pick a pup. He is a Chocolate but only on his mothers side and even then there are only 3 dogs in the last 5 generations that are chocolate the rest are all black.

The breeders guarantee is good for another pup when the have one and I have to pay for shipping and the OFA test and more X-rays on my dog on top of it all. But I do get to keep my current dog just have to get him fixed.

So most guarantees I have seen cost you so much in meeting all the qualifications that by the time you are done you could have gotten another dog for the same price. Plus do you really want a dog from the same breeder as the dog you had problems with in the first place. No Breeder is going to give you your money back if you know of one let me know as the are the exception.

[ 12-19-2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Boedy ]

[tag-a-long]

The pedigree makes a world of difference. I was lucky enough not to have to spend a ton on a good dog. I was given my dog from an ifisher. Thanks Tom!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is from the merganser kennels. His pedigree includes some fantastic blacks and yellows. His grandma was best in breed at wesminster, so they aren't just hunting dogs. He is hyper, but when it comes time to hunt he is all business from what I can see. He is a one man dog. Around the house he loves everyone, but if I move, he is with me.

Good luck Wak, I hope you find a dog that makes you happy.

[tag-a-long]

The pedigree makes a world of difference. I was lucky enough not to have to spend a ton on a good dog. I was given my dog from an ifisher. Thanks Tom!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is from the merganser kennels. His pedigree includes some fantastic blacks and yellows. His grandma was best in breed at wesminster, so they aren't just hunting dogs. He is hyper, but when it comes time to hunt he is all business from what I can see. He is a one man dog. Around the house he loves everyone, but if I move, he is with me.

Good luck Wak, I hope you find a dog that makes you happy.