Tbay ducks

corrirod · 12-13-2002, 07:19 PM

Conditions in the morning: no wind, no rain, warm, no ducks. Finally in the afternoon the weather changed and started to see some ducks flying around but out of range.

Took my dog out for the first time, just for giggles really, to see if she'd fetch one up. End of the day decided to take a Bufflehead for the test. Shot the bird, pointed the dog, sent her on her way, she swam right to the duck, grabbed it, spit it out and came back!

I was worried that would be the case. I've tried attaching actual duck wings to her training dummy and she hates it. Anybody have any suggestions? When she left that duck today I was tempted to duct tape it to her mouth for the rest of the day!! :grin:

Any help is appreciated.

[ 12-13-2002, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

skein · 12-13-2002, 07:42 PM

Rod,

There's a lot of guys on here that know LOTS more than I do, so take this with a grain of salt.

I, too, was worried about "feathers" so I did the old "tie 'em to the dummy" routine, but I didn't let her go for them at first. I just teased her with 'em, and acted like they were really special. I let her sniff around and nose it pretty good, then I would throw her regular canvas dummy. I did that for about half the session, then I worked her up pretty good with it, and finally threw it, but not very far - maybe 25 feet. Then I was a damn cheerleader, dancing up and down, clapping my hands, running backwards, just all excited about her getting that "bird." [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] She was a little confused, sort of "what's he all excited about" but she brought the thing back. I acted like it was the best present she'd ever brought me.

Gradually through that game she caught on. Maybe she would never have thought twice about it, but I didn't want to take a chance. Same thing with her first duck. I took it, practically jumping up and down (not necessarily faking it :grin: ) and threw it back out in the water for her to retrieve again - and again. That was a pretty beat up looking duck by the time I put it in the game bag, but by that time she sure thought duck hunting was fun.

Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

Skein

12-13-2002, 08:54 PM

Smart dog, it doesn't like divers. Try a mallard next time :grin:

Tilla · 12-13-2002, 09:21 PM

I guess I'll go first.
What is needed is known as force fetch training. There are books, there are $400/mo trainers and of course like everything there is always more to it than meets the eye. Now, if you are interested in being taught how to do it, I can make a recomendation. E-mail me. Actually, I need to take one of my retrievers back to some basics.

bigshark · 12-13-2002, 09:25 PM

Yep.......she might just eat the mallard.................only joking!

greenhead · 12-14-2002, 05:18 PM

Try Force Fetch,Ear, toes,Dog should bring back with a smile :grin: and ready to go agian,Remember nothing better than a good working Retriver

skein · 12-14-2002, 05:39 PM

Since I was the first one to venture out on this one, I need to follow up and say that force-fetching isn't for everyone. Yes, it probably works (I say probably because since I've never done it, I don't know) but it's pretty unpleasant for the pup. I've had to pop mine on the butt from time to time, but I've mostly done well with positive reinforcement. My dog isn't going to win any field trials, but she's not a trials dog, she's my hunting buddy.

Don't read this wrong. There is not one of us who doesn't LOVE their retriever, regardless of the method of training. I just decided, personally, that when I die and go to hell, I will go knowing I never used a shock collar or the pain inflicted by force-fetch training. I suspect my pup would look like a clown next to yours, but she's good enough for me.

Please don't take any offense at this post - there was none intended.

PS Her first blind retrieve brought back a duck one of the hunters wanted to have mounted. There wasn't so much as a feather out of place. Also, last year she got a standing ovation in the duck boat for one of her blind retrieves. Geez, I love my dog! [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

Skein

[ 12-14-2002, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: skein ]

Bill Monroe · 12-14-2002, 05:54 PM

I would force train only as a last resort...get a book and go through it pretty good...use your dog's favorite toy and make a fuss...make that the only thing the two of you really like to do...then tie the wing around it...make it a fresh (well, considering this year, fresh-frozen), warm to her mouth wing...as pleasant as you can make it...maybe you might make a fuss about the wing, too...if it's refused, stop playing for at least half a day, then try again...positive reward is the first step in any retriever training...If you tie a duck in her mouth, better quit duck hunting or get another dog, cuz that one will be done...good luck!

Labsforme · 12-16-2002, 04:31 AM

FF is the basics for advanced training like blinds,swim-bys etc.It's is actually a kindness in
removing any doubt why the dog was sent.I also train my dogs to get into heavy cover such as blackberries.The reason in having a retriever is to bring back the birds(well besides
making sure the wife needs new shoes,a new type of puppy training).It's not cruel,just don't lose your cool.It takes about 10 to 15 minustes a day, 3 days a week for maybe(depending on the dog) for a month.There a too many good books out there on basics to mention.I personally won't recommend Wolters.

corrirod · 12-16-2002, 08:15 AM

I appreciate all the advice. I would really like to spend the money to get her trained properly but unfortunately I need to get a job first, or at least that's what my wife thinks! :tongue:

I'll try picking up some books to start and I'll keep you guys up-to-date on the progress and ask for further instruction.

You were all very helpful, well except for Keta but you can't expect much from him! :grin:

Flatfish · 12-16-2002, 04:44 PM

Keep working with pup. Take her hunting with another retreiver, and make her stay in the blind as the other dog gets all the fetches. Get out of saltwater,maybe. Quit shooting yukky tasting birds.
I have shot crows that spend all day eating at the dump, and my dog would not pick them up for nuthin. I can't blame him. He loves ducks and geese mind you, but them sky carp were too much.
Give em something yummy, and show her that there aint nothing better than fetching ducks. If that dont work, ask someone who knows more than I do.
Mark and the dog.

corrirod · 12-16-2002, 05:14 PM

Thanks Flatfish,

Believe me, I would've loved to have shot something better but that was all I had. I did however use mallard wings on her dummy and she didn't like them either.

I'll keep working with her and I'm sure, one way or another, she'll start fetching'm up.

steelheadslayer · 12-16-2002, 06:32 PM

Rod, it was nice talking to you at the Christmas Party. It shouldn't matter what the dog is sent to retrieve, deer horns, pop cans, wooden dumbbells, bumpers(plastic or canvas). She should do it with pride. I force fetched my dog. It isn't as harsh as methods used years ago. I strongly reccomend The Tri Tronics Retriever Training book by Jim Dobbs. He has a training center in CA and a website, www.dobbsdogs.com, you might be able to order it from him or Tri Tronics. Don't get worried, it outlines a humane way to FF your dog so there will be no doubt what the dog is supposed to do. You don't need to buy an electronic collar but it is nice to have as a reinforcement tool when the dog is away from you. Many people disagree with collars but I for one would rather give the dog a little stimulation in the form of discomfort rather than run out and box it's ears after it has forgotten what it did wrong. I do agree with Bill in you should never tie something or force a dog to carry a duck around. It will hate doing it and won't do it. E-mail me if you need any info or possible contacts for info on training.