Washington Poaching!

[Curlew]

Just heard from a friend that he saw two indians up shooting deer on Clemans Mt in Central Washington. When it was all over they had shot 12 dandy bucks! He called the game department to report and they said they can't do anything because they are Yakima Indians! Is this true? Also, heard they shot 4 rams off of clemans this fall!

This is sickening! Finally get a decent limited hunting area and the indians shot the crap out of the deer on the winter :depressed: range.

mf

[ 12-07-2002, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Curlew ]

[KingFisher85]

That's a bunch of bull.

[crabbait]

Sorry, Kingfisher, but it may well be true.

While archery elk hunting near Indian Heaven we heard rifle shots after 11:00pm. We hoped in the truck and went to investigate. Found nothing that night but, the next day, found where an elk had been killed in the middle of the paved road. (They had at least dragged the gut pile to the side of the road.)

Called the police only to be informed that it was undoubtedly native americans and that the law did not apply as long as they were "hunting" on their ancestral lands.

No use lamenting decisions that have been made in the courts.

[Big TULE]

Was with a friend bow hunting in ryderwood and the JACKA$$E$ were carying rifles for bear and cougar and downing there elk right before dark. They were boning out there elk and carrying it out the next morning. Called the game department and they said if they don't catch them shooting the animal or get to it within a few hours of downing it they will never know how it was taked because they are stripping the bones of everything and over night the coyotes are cleaning the ribs. I heard probably 15-20 shots after 7 o'clock in the evening this year during the late archery hunt. With they could catch them all, but i know they can't.

[Curlew]

Ancestral lands maybe, but did they have 4x4's and 300 Win Mags when they hunted back then? Let them hunt year round with a hickory bow and wooden arrows!

mf

[GutshotApe]

Curlew - About 3 years ago the Klamath Indian tribe's "fish & wildlife director" lectured the Oregon fish & wildlife commission about Indian "rights" on former tribal lands (parts of the Fremont & Winema N.F.). He wanted no more deer hunting by "whites" in the area. He maintained Indians have the right to hunt year round, to use pickup trucks with spotlights for night hunting, to road hunt and shoot from roads with scope-sighted rifles, and to take as many deer as they "need" "for subsistance". He said they needed ALL of the deer for subsistance while the white hunters, who only hunted for sport, could go somewhere else.

BTW, this individual was extremely obese, about 350 pounds - seemed to be subsisting quite well. So you suppose pizza and doughnuts are part of the Klamath Indian heritage, too?

[Alligator]

I am a registered Native American. Northern Ponca of Nebraska. <1/4 blood

My brothers and I are fishermen and hunters. We enjoy hunting most game animals and birds using mostly archery and shotgun. We spend hundreds of dollars visiting each others state, paying the non-resident license fees, air fare, etc., to hunt and fish each year. We do not receive any special hunting or fishing privileges in the states we hunt/fish.

Okay, with that prefacer I would like to give my opinions on the featured topic.

If the Natives utilize their game without waste for their families and stay within their established legal hunting areas, I have no problem. I might be a little jealous of their methods and limits but that is my own personal problem and I don’t know their economic conditions. Obviously, shooting on highways and all unsafe actions should not be done.

Philosophically,

The whites won the Indian war and thus get the land called America.
The Indians get little parcels of land across the country and some fishing/hunting perks.

So it is and so it will be.

Let’s talk netting on the Columbia River!

Allow those commercial fishers and Natives take their quotas at the Bonneville dam, if they wish too. Most will because it will eliminate their harvest costs and burden. No more dead fish due to nets and we sport fishers get first shot at the fish, end of problem!

Just my humble opinon

[ibeanfishin]

Alligator ; my personal problem with this topic is if the natives utilize thier game and or fish without waste , year after year you and I see waste while trying to sell the catch or kill. do they need the food or money, which one would run out first? I dont know if i'm jealous of what and how there practices are ment to be carried out but the waste (not just meat - boat ramps too) is to much for most people to bear. So are they doing the Native Indian people good in the whole???... [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

[Perfect Drift]

I don't object to the laws the native American folks have, I can think of many occasions that the US Army wiped out entire bands. It's the waste that gets stuck in my throat, I have watched at Hoodsport fish after fish ripped open if you are a hen for the eggs and the body tossed into the water. Hundreds and hundreds of bodies. Where is the tradition, where is the spirit. Like us all, we have slobs and we have slobs. I guess I don't understand why the elders don't step up and say 'Hey', stop the waste. I don't understand that part.

[Flying Roast Beef]

The Indians were conquered. The decendents of those people are now American citizens. They should live by American laws. Unless perhaps they would like to restart the Indian wars?

[Alligator]

FRB,

I agree that the natives should follow the American law.

The signed treaties between the US government and Natives are American Laws.

The question is are we as Americans willing to stand firm on our agreements. I just hope we have the integrity to keep our word.

IBean, Perfect Drift, excellent points.

les

[BW]

I hate to say it because I do not belive in what the indians are allowed to do in this state. But they were not conqured. That is the problem. The United States brokered a deal with them, that is why it has stood up in court. It is just like any contract They have made with anyone else. We therefore are stuck with it.

[GutshotApe]

Yes, in the 1850s and 1860s deals were brokered with several loose groups of defeated Indians. Some signed the treaties, some didn't. Since then there has been a lot of assimilation. There are still "pureblood" Indians around but there are probably a lot more 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, and 1/32 Indians that claim to be Indians when it benefits them under these 150-year-old treaties.

Has the US ever abrogated a treaty? Heck yes, it happens all the time when the situation changes and the circumstances make the agreement impractical.

I know several people with Indian ancestry, some look "like Indians", some you have to look hard to see it. But these people have successfully assimilated into the dominant culture and lead "normal" lives.

Descendants of early aboriginal people want to have it both ways - enjoy all the benefits of US citizenship AND special rights to exploit public resources.

Its time to recognize we are now in the 21st century and continuing race-based policies that favor one group of Americans over another, based on skin color and heritage, is wrong and cannot go on indefinitely.

My 0.02 worth.

[Flying Roast Beef]

I should apologize for being soo harsh. However I still dissagree with what the Indians are allowed to do to the resourse in their "native hunting grounds."

[eightball]

I live in an area where there are a lot of native americans. I think they should have the right to harvest for subsitence. But that they should have to do it in a traditional method. Spear or Bow. No spot lights and no guns, maybe even no pickups. If they buy tags like the rest of us then they should be able to hunt like the rest of us. :grin: :grin:

[Timber]

My problem with the whole situation is the fact that they can in some instances take up to 6 elk per person[last I knew of the grande ronde tribe] it might have changed of late. And then still hunt as a oregon resident on the ground that we are stuck hunting on. That would have allowed them 7 elk per personper year. nowhow many families let alone individuals could use that much wild game

[ibeanfishin]

gutshotape ; your so called .02 is heavy weight like gold. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] just to let some people know i'm not native indian but was married to one for many years so i've seen first hand the exploitation of public recorces;(handouts) there should be a bigger cap on the % of ancestry that can be used for so called INDIAN RIGHTS... :blush: :whazzup: