Binoculars or a spotting scope ?

Pan Fry · 12-03-2002, 07:19 PM

Ok, second year bow hunter. My wife would like to get me something for Christmas, hunting related. I need a lot of things (Rangefinder, tree stand, etc.)
I'm a newly wed, so baby steps, literally.
I need some good eyes.
What do you think I should tell her, binoculars or a spotting scope ?
I can't decide, and I don't have $1,000.00 .
help ?

Crayfin · 12-03-2002, 07:33 PM

EVERY person should own a set of binoculars! A spotting scope is nice but you will use your binos much more often (you should anyway) If you learn to look with them instead of through them you will find that you're looking at alot more critters!

I have a set of Zeiss and Swarovski's but both of those are going to be up in the 1k range. Anybody have a less expensive pair they can recommend? I will say dont bother with a set of compacts--they are a waste of money-try and get something like a 8x32 or 10x40 and get used to packing them-they are worth the extra weight 10x over. I highly recommend a set of "bino buddies" to take the stress out of your neck-I love mine and have given them as gifts to all of my hunting buddies.

You might try Jeff Janssens @ 629-5642 He owns Janssens Adventure Outfitters in Hillsboro and deals in alot of optics, he might be able to point you in the right direction.

Crayfin

[ 12-03-2002, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: crayfin ]

skein · 12-03-2002, 07:52 PM

I've got some Pentax 12x50 binos, and I won't go out in the woods without them. When I was bowhunting I tried many, many different compacts and never found a pair that really worked. These cost under $200 (like about $150 on sale) and I've never been sorry. I spotted a buck that my wife took - and he was so far away that even now I'm amazed at how far I could see those horns. I wouldn't have with any of the glass I used to carry. These are the best low-cost binoculars I've ever owned.

You'll think they're too big to carry until you try them in the woods. The payoff is worth the bulk.

Skein

blacktail · 12-03-2002, 07:54 PM

If you don't already have a decent pair, then definitely go for the binoculars.

Northwest Armory in Milwaukie has a good selection and vet competitive prices.

The Kahles look to be a very good product for the money. Not cheap at around $600, but they are very high quality and have had good press.

Mike

tailchaser · 12-03-2002, 08:13 PM

I know your pains, I was shopping a couple of years ago with the same restraints and found the Nikon's 10x42 Monarchs to fit the mold pretty well. They can be found for 289 is the cheapest I've seen, but waterproof and lightweight binos are impossible to beat. I use my spotting scope sparingly but will look through the binos 4-5 hours in some days. Definitely go for the binos. I'm also a bowhunter and didn't want anything large to hang around my neck all day on the move.

I plan on upgrading some day to Zeiss or Swaro's but only in time. I wouldn't spend any less than 300 bucks if you want a great pair. They stay true to the fact you get what you pay for. 50 dollar bushnells will never compare to the 300 dollar models. Look through a lot though before you decide.

tc

crabbait · 12-03-2002, 08:22 PM

Go for the binos. Spotting scopes are not as necessary for us bowhunters (except spot 'n stalk mulie hunting).

All the brands mentioned are pretty good. For carry use, I like the Leopold Wind River binos in 7 power. Check out some Steiners as well.

Timber · 12-03-2002, 09:20 PM

I'm with tailchaser I was in the same sit. and bought the bushnel trohy 10x42s after five years of them { I thought I was pretty happy with them}A friend bought a pair of 10x40 ziess victory's for me as a bonus. then I knew what I was missing after I had them I noticed the nikon monarchs and for three hundred bucks you can't beat them. Tim

Flying Roast Beef · 12-03-2002, 09:45 PM

I have the nikon 10x40's and love 'em!! I don't think I could hold anything stronger still enough to see.

Bait O' Eggs · 12-04-2002, 06:28 AM

That spotting scope wont do you much good if you dont have something to look at with it. First get a good pair of binos, then when you spot something to far to tell what it is, get out the spotting scope to count points etc....

Cheap binos are just that, cheap!!

I would never buy a pair that wasnt waterproof. When they fog up, you might as well be packing a rock. Waterproof binos dont fog up. It has been known to rain in Oregon during hunting season though you couldnt prove it this year.

Second I really like 10 power, and would like some 12 powers if they were available in a few more models. 15 power is to much to hold still on a cold day. Lots of people like 7 or 8 power but they dont it for me. I dont need a big field of view, I need to see what I am looking at and more power does it for me. I can move the binos around to look at the entire hillside.

The objective lens size is huge. Get at least a 40mm lens, Mine are 50's. The bigger the lens the brighter the glasses will appear when you look thru them. Others have poo pooed the compacts and that is because the 28 or so objective lenses only look good in the middle of the day when their is plenty of daylight to see with.

I know many will say the Leupold Wind rivers 10x40 is not a low end pair of binos, but for what I would call the lowest acceptable bino out there these are great. I have had a pair for 10 + years (before they were wind river) and they have been great. They have never fogged on me. I left them on the hood of a truck once and at about 50 mph they fell off on the HWY and broke in half. Leupold fixed the broken hinge and they still dont leak. :shocked: :shocked:

When you are comparing binos, try to look thru them on dark days, into dark spots and you will see what seperates the good ones from the bad ones. Looking across a well lit store does not show the differences, take them outside at dusk and look up a dark alley.

Good luck.

Beer Waggin · 12-04-2002, 06:42 AM

I use a pair of the 10 x 40 Leupolds WR and can say there were times I wish I had more power. I hunt with a buddy who carries a big set of Swarovski's. He can reach out and touch stuff with these babies. They're big and heavy, but have helped him. He can see elk and deer that only look like stumps to me. The price tag was just under a grand for him vs. my $450(?), so there is a big difference. Like BOE said, Leupold has a warranty that doesn't get any better. The Swarovski's can be purchased in Hillsboro for just as cheap as you can find them anywhere in the country. If you buy, make sure you take them outside and look. Looking across a store in bright lights doesn't give you a good comparison.

outdoor.spec.ops · 12-04-2002, 07:00 AM

I would recommend binos as well. I have had Bushnell, Redfield, Nikon, Leopold, Cabelas, and Swift binos. All of them were 10 power and waterproof, which is a must for Oregon and Washington I believe. The Nikons were great until they fogged up, and I had a tough time with getting them fixed. After the second time of sending them in, they said they wouldnt fix them again? They never said why. The Redfields were awesome, until they were stolen, but I think the company was sold to a company in Japan or overseas since I owned mine, they may not have the same quality of product. The Leopolds, Swifts, and Cabelas brands were all great for the money, no complaints. I use leopold 10 x 20's when bow hunting. They fit into my pocket when away from the truck, but if looking far away, the field of view is small. Bushnell was great for the money, and performed as expected. I can't say they were as good as the Leopolds or Cabelas, but a good value none the less.
Shop around, and have fun.

Myles · 12-04-2002, 07:04 AM

First off, whatever you decide try here:
http://www.hotbuyselectronics.com/default.htm the cheapest place I could find. But definately go try before you decide. Compare in low light conditions, you'll be amazed at the difference.
Don't buy the cheap stuff, you'll end up buying the good stuff later anyway.
Something to consider would be a top quality rangefinder/bino. I bought a bushnell 600 yd. rangefinder but it's only 3X magnification. I got tired of carrying it and 10x binocs and missed two elk this year because I misjudged the distance.
I'm leaning towards the Leica 800 rangefinder for next year. Decent optics, 7X power and an 800 yd. rangefinder. If you go this route you'll have a top quality rangefinder and could get bigger binocs later if needed.
Get the spotting scope later.

my 2 cents
myles

[ 12-04-2002, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Myles ]

Mojo · 12-04-2002, 07:17 AM

Buy good (read expensive) binoculars. Buy a cheap spotting scope. You'll never regret spending more on Bino's.

blast and cast · 12-04-2002, 07:35 AM

I second the call to Jansens Outfitters, Jeff is a great guy and carries lots of different optics. I carry the Baush and Lomb Elite series and they are great for the money. You can also check out Eagle Optics for a review of 100's of binos. www.eagleoptics.com

Gus Orviston · 12-04-2002, 12:58 PM

binos, and like said above, skip the compacts. BOE is right the objective lens is what makes them pale in low light conditions is the parameter of how much ocular light is transmitted... basically the light that is trasmitted to the eye. The ocular light is determined by the obj lens and the power. You can see the amount by holding the binos out at arms lenght and looking at the light dot.

Simply divide the obj (mm) by the power, so a 40mm/10x will give you a 4mm ocular light beam. Why is the important ? You need at least as much light as the diameter of your pupil to keep your image from vanishing on you. Typically 3.5mm, so the larger the ratio the better. compacts in the 25-30mm at 8-10 power are horrible at transmitted light. 30/10 is less than you eyes can stand. IMHO. There is a diminishing returns though at about 6-7mm. spotting scopes work on the same premise.

When you go to larger power, don't sacrifice this parameter for more zoooooom. 10x50 is a nice combo ratio to keep. go up much in power and you start losing light without bumping up the obj dia.

Also, try putting binocs on a tripod some time, I won't buy a pair without the standard tripod adapter. it stabilizes the image nicely and eliminates any jitter caused by you.

[ 12-04-2002, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Gus Orviston ]

TheRogue · 12-04-2002, 05:28 PM

I have a pair of 8x42 Fujinon's. They're around $550 most places....CameraWorld was closing them out, and I got mine for $200. Without a doubt, the best binocs for the price I got them for, and some of the best around at the $550. Fully phase coated, which is one of the things the $1000 pairs brag about.

I also have a compact Leupold 25x50 spotting scope with matching compact tripod. It's a great combination, it fits in my oversize fanny pack perfectly, and I can have it out and looking in less than a minute.

I would've bought the Nikon Monarch 8x40's at FMO on Friday for $199, if I could've justified it. Probably the best pair of binocs out there for under $300...you can find them for $250.

TR

ultralight · 12-04-2002, 08:53 PM

TheRogue,

Are the Fujinons still on sale at the CameraWorld? Thanks.

lamiglass drifter · 12-04-2002, 09:22 PM

I bought a pait of Leupold WindRiver P1 10x50 this summer and it was the best money I have ever spent...

ULTOUT.con $280.00 around $380.00 everywhere else

Pan Fry · 12-05-2002, 11:13 PM

This is good stuff,
Thank You Everybody!

TheRogue · 12-06-2002, 05:21 AM

Ultralight....nope, they've been gone for a while.

Check their website in the clearance area, they shuffle things through there a lot.

http://www.cameraworld.com

TR

Myles · 12-06-2002, 08:05 AM

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Camera World may be OK for clearence specials but I compared the binoc's I bought.
Minox made by Leica 10x52

Camera World $599.99

www.hotbuyselectronics.com $429.98

Must be a little bit of profit in this business.
myles

Bait O' Eggs · 12-06-2002, 08:16 AM

Something to be aware of when buying higher end optics is that their are quite a few gray market items out there that dont have warranties.

When I bought my Swarovskis the best price I could find was from a place that buys product overseas and sneaks them into the USA with out paying for the tariffs/taxes etc..... (this was explained to me by Swarovski). You can save several hunderd dollars but you only get a one year warranty from the company you purchased the binos from, not from the manufacturer. The best warrantied price I could find was from eagle optics and they were a reputable dealer that dealt in product that came with a factory warranty.

Swarovski told me they tracked serial numbers and if you buy a pair of gray market optics they will not warranty them.

As usuall it is buyer beware!! call the factory and ask them your questions, you usually get the straight scoop, not a salesmans pitch.

I dont know if the other high end optic dealers have this problem, but I assume they do.

ultralight · 12-06-2002, 10:21 AM

Thanks, TR!

Ditto what BOE said. Also, most of these international warranty items can be upgraded to USA warranty by paying additional $$$. So when you think you're getting an awesome deal, make sure to ask the seller if it comes with a USA warranty and if the price is AFTER a rebate.

King Kong · 12-06-2002, 12:14 PM

Check out Minox at Sportsmans warehouse in Salem!!! $50.00 rebate until the end of the month. I think that they were around $550.00 before the rebate. Look through a pair of Wind Rivers, Nikons or any other model for around $300 and then look through the Minox. No comparison! Well worth the extra $200. Much brighter and clearer. Its a chunk of cash, but well worth it. Think about how many times you have been out there at dusk or dawn unable to see in heavily timbered areas. The light gathering capability of the Minox is right up there with models that cost over $1000.00. Good luck.

Gus Orviston · 12-06-2002, 11:34 PM

Here are the optics BOE likes...it helps him see over the stumps better.
:tongue:

[ 12-06-2002, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: Gus Orviston ]