Duck hunting questions.

Leatherneck · 12-03-2002, 06:44 PM

I have found out over the year that duck hunting has changed a whole lot. I use to duck hunt in the 80's and have just got back into it. My question is what chokes are people using with the steel shot. Also i have been told that you cut your lead in half with steel shot. I plan on buying the Remington 870 12gauge.

KingFisher85 · 12-03-2002, 06:51 PM

I would get the Winchester 1300 and use a mod choke tub. #2 or #3 bird shot for your ducks to.

bigshark · 12-03-2002, 08:10 PM

There are lots opinions on this topic and I will give you mine. When shooting over decoys for duck steele 3s are my first choice. That said let me say I dislike steele shot but for the sake of staying on topic lets just say it is what you want to shoot. For geese over decoys 2s up to BBB will all work, but BBB are the quickest killers in my opinion. For pass shooting steele is a poor choice compared to hevi-shot no matter which waterfowl bird you after as long as they are the larger birds. Those late season mallards have heavy armor and larger shot is often needed. You need to know what the gun shoots best, not what you want it to shoot. As for chokes I think the modified is the best all round choke however I have a couple of guns with Imp Mod that are really good tight and uniform pattern producers. You will find that some guns will eat certain brands better than others and the same with shot sizes and the patterns produced. There is no substitute for spending the time and money to really find out what your gun likes best, but it can be a lot of effort. As for the amount of lead
required, the amount is slightly shorter but not half as much. The lenght of the shot string is shorter which means you have to be "on" the bird better than with the old loads and for most shells steele is a little higher in velocity. Hope this helps a little.

[ 12-03-2002, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: bigshark ]

crabbait · 12-03-2002, 08:29 PM

Or, you could spend the money for Hevi-shot, shoot half as many rounds, and get more birds using the shot sizes you remember from the "good old days" (you still need a shotgun capable of handling steel for these).

I ordereed two cases of hevi-shot last year and used it exclusively. It was awesome watching big mallards get crushed with one shot instead of crippled with three. A-duck-a-shot means a chance at a double or better instead of unloading on that one won't-die greenhead!

As for steel, remember it starts off faster but loses speed and energy at a faster clip as well. Better to over-lead and hit 'em in the head with a few than unde-lead and pepper their posteriors with the whole load.

Tilla · 12-03-2002, 08:35 PM

I agree with Bigshark. I love 3's for decoyed ducks, BBB for Geese. Improved and modified work great. Just decoy and/or call the birds into range first. The rest isn't rocket science. A bunch of us happened into some goose hunting a few weeks ago in which we had nothing but #2 and #3's. (many with the 1 oz cheapie loads! :shocked: ) We dispatched a dozen Cacklers and Tav's with ease.

Crashin' Bait · 12-03-2002, 08:48 PM

I shoot an old seventies vintage 870 Wingmaster magnum with a full choke barrel. About the only size shot I use are #2's. Just keep em' within 40 yds. Also, patterning your gun let's you know what loads are compatible with your gun/choke. The best way to find out how steel shoots is to get out there and start slinging steel.

shakerfish · 12-03-2002, 09:08 PM

Hay Dude! These guys are all telling it right on the money! I think your choice of the 870 is a smart move!

But think about getting the 870 super mag. It will let ya shoot 3 1/2 's when you need to for them honkers! I have two of these gun's eazy to clean and take apart! And I can pump as fast as a auto loader! It just takes a little practice! :grin: So good luck!.....shakerfish!....

Flying Roast Beef · 12-03-2002, 09:55 PM

For what it's worth I don't think I've taken the Imp. cylinder tube out of my 870 since the inception of steel shot. Just shoot them in the head...they will fall. I know that sounds a little cocky but hey...it's true.

Flatfish · 12-03-2002, 10:03 PM

Modified choke. Maybe Improved-Modified. Steel 2,3, or 4s for ducks. Hevi Shot for geese. Leads are how you see them. I shoot the same with steel as I do with lead at skeet. But I am a statistic of 1 , so take it with a grain of salt. Thumbs up for the 870. They sell millions of them for a reason.
Mark and the dog.

Dr Strangelove · 12-03-2002, 10:42 PM

Is a full choke safe / acceptable to use with Hevi-Shot BBB-#2's? Does it generally pattern like lead? I haven't used it much because its so expensive and I'm a terrible pass shot. Doc

1pump · 12-03-2002, 11:33 PM

When I started hunting about 20 years ago I shot an old Mossberg 500 with a full choke and 30" barrel. I always used #2 steel 1-1/8 oz loads. It made it tough to hit birds at close range, but when I hit 'em, they dropped like rocks. I currently use improved cyl choke tubes in both my guns and #3 shot. But I always hunt over dekes and I usually don't shoot at anything more than 35 yards away, especially if it's windy. Steel really sucks in the wind, but other than that I don't mind it. The people that whine about it never learned how to shoot it.
Lead's been illegal for waterfowl in the U.S. since '91 and I don't think it's a coincidence that duck populations have been on the rebound since then.

Flying Roast Beef · 12-03-2002, 11:52 PM

Well, popular or not...back in the days, I killed a lot of ducks with lead 7 1/2's handloads. Those birds fell dead.

bigshark · 12-04-2002, 07:17 PM

doctor s

I would be very concerned about "ringing" with
steele BBB in full choke guns. So far I have not had a problem with an old M12 Duck that is full choked, but it could happen tomarrow. I do think there has been significant advancement in the wad technology which has reduced the ringing that ocurred with the early steele shells. There is still the "bridging" problem which tends to make the patterns widen out of full chokes and give you no better patterns than what you would get with a lesser constriction. Hevi-shot is quite different than steele for a number of reasons. It does not need a full choke as lead. It is a terrific advancement that will allow the art of pass shooting to return as a legitimate form of harvest. As the young ones say: "steele sucks"
when attempting pass shots. If I might make a recommendation, take two old phone books out to a safe place to shoot and pace off 50 paces, shoot your favorite long range steele load at one and then shoot a load of hevi-shot
#2s at the other book. Notice the larger number of pellets striking the book with hevi-shot, now see how deep the pellets penitrated the books. It should be evident which will be most productive when knocking down birds a longer ranges and avoiding that crippling we all hate. Hope your season is going well.

Bob

Chum King · 12-04-2002, 10:27 PM

Dr. Strangelove,

The Hevi-Shot is a hard shot like the steel, tungsten combos, etc. As I understand it, it should not be shot through a full choke. If you are looking for a replacement for lead to shoot in an older gun or one with a full choke, your only non-toxic option is Bismuth.

bigshark · 12-05-2002, 02:15 PM

Chum

I think tung-poly fit into the picture as well. :smile:

KingFisher85 · 12-05-2002, 03:12 PM

Someone said something about getting a remington 870 super mag 3 1/2 inch shotgun. NO, don't get one of them ***. The 870 is a nice gun in the 3 inch but they super mag models have had to many problems. They build a light weight gun, but they can't build it to handle the heavy 3 1/2 inch magnum loads.
I "once" had a 3 1/2 inch Remington 870 super magnum and had a pin fall off in side the duck blind.
A good hunting buddy of mine also had one and I don't know why he wasted his money on trying to fix the thing. The pin still came out.

If you want a good 3 1/2 inch magnum shotgun go for Mossberg 835, they held the market for 10 years in a row before anyone came out with another 3 1/2 inch gun. The mossberg 835 is still the #1 selling 3 1/2 inch shotgun. They are also cheaper then the 870, I picked mine up for $200 and it has the grass land camo on it.
I now own the 835 with the grass land camo and have had it for 5 years, bought it used and its one nice gun, never had a problem with it. I have never heard of any one having any problems using the Mossberg 835s. The only thing I don't like about it is that you can't shoot slugs out of it.

Gone thought 3 shotguns in the 3 1/2 inch mag, Remington, Winchester and Mossberg and the only one thats lasted was the Mossberg 835
Don't get a 10 GA, the ammo is more $ then the 3 1/2 inch magnum shells.

Just my 2 cents

[ 12-05-2002, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: KingFisher85 ]

Chum King · 12-05-2002, 08:19 PM

Bigshark,

I think you were trying to point out that tung-poly is another very hard shot that should not be fired through a full choke. If that was the point you were trying to make, you are right on the mark. All of the tungsten products are harder than steel and should not be fired through full choke guns as the shot will compress.

But then, I figure that I can afford to shoot a lot more loads of steel than any of the other products out there. I've gotten used to it... but I would sure like to see the price on Hevi-shot come down to where I figured I could afford it. :depressed:

bigshark · 12-05-2002, 10:10 PM

Chum King

Sorry, for the confusion but tung-poly is safe for all guns. The product I have been using in my doubles, when I just have to have a Double
Fix :smile: is Kent "Impact" tungsten matrix. It is a tungsten polymer mixture that replicates lead shot. It is safe in all nitro-proofed shotguns. They state: "without fear of barrel or choke damage. Traditional lead choke constrictions and shot size recommendations apply."

The boxes are blue and hold 10 shells, they offer a #5 shot load that my 21s love to eat.
My scales are not perfect but they do appear to weight the same as lead shot of the same size. They make that claim but I can't verify it.
I can verify that after two flats (500 rounds) my barrels remain perfect.

Hope this is helpful to you and your season is going well.

[ 12-05-2002, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: bigshark ]

Washington Hunter · 12-06-2002, 09:13 AM

With the larger sizes of steel shot, such as BBB's, an improved cylinder choke will generally give you a full choke pattern. So for hunting geese with BBB's, you may want to at least go out and pattern your gun with the imp. cyl. tube. For ducks over decoys, and smaller steel shot, like 2's and 3's, improved cylinder will work great also. With steel, that's about all I've ever used.

Leatherneck · 12-07-2002, 06:29 PM

Thanks for everyone's input, that's what make's ifish so great. I'll be picking up a 870 12 gauge hopefully on Monday. Allthough that Mossberg 835 could be a possibility as well.

Clackman · 12-08-2002, 06:52 PM

i have an 835 i dont use any more switched to an o/u but is an ok gun i have a few freind w the benneli and that is one unbeivable pump gun it has features i have never seen before for same money

KingFisher85 · 12-08-2002, 07:25 PM

Just to let you know, all the Mossberg 835 barrels are Ported. So if you are going to shoot slugs out of it, don't get the 835 for slug shooting.
IF you do buy one, don't spend over $300 dollars on the gun.

A Benelli for the same price as a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 835, if you can find a deal for a Benelli for that cheap of a price, get it!
And when you do, let me know, I want one.
EVERYONE, if you know were (some were local) I can get a new in the box Benelli pump shotgun with a black stock and a 28 inch barrel for under $350 dollars, please let me know!

skein · 12-09-2002, 07:31 AM

Bigshark,

I agree with you on the Kent Impact shotshells. I use 'em in my model 12 and they really work! Last year I made a couple of long shots that I could hardly believe and tumbled 'em. Uh...not skybusting shots, but rather shots to bring down some that I wing-tipped and were still winging away - you know, followup shots. I dumped a couple of those and just shook my head thinking that I would *never* have shot that far except to collect a wounded bird. Impact works!

Come on wind and rain.....

Skein

MikeT · 12-09-2002, 09:17 AM

Leatherneck,
BiMart has the 870 Express on sale right now for $219 for the 3" version and $267 for the 3.5". Heck of a deal. For duck hunting the 3" should be plenty of gun.

KingFisher85,
I bought a new Benelli Nova from Keith's in Gresham for $300 earlier this year. Call around; I think you can find one pretty easily for that price.

MikeT

Chum King · 12-09-2002, 07:44 PM

Bigshark,

Thanks for the clarification on the Tungsten Poly being okay in all guns. I have been off-line for a few days and didn't get a chance to reply earlier.

Leatherneck · 12-10-2002, 05:39 PM

I picked up my shotgun today and felt like i got a pretty good deal. I work with a guy who was looking into trading his 870 express 28'' barrel, synthetic stock, black. He put one box of shell's through the gun. I had a Taurus 357 mag, model 669 in excellent condition. We traded and i felt it was a good deal. I get to put the 870 to the test the next few weekend's at Sauvie Island due to drawing Mudhen. Another addiction.

Killertraylor · 12-10-2002, 11:04 PM

Kingfisher - I bought one of the black Benelli Nova's at GI Joes this summer for $269. I think it's pretty ugly, but for that price with 3 choke tubes, magazine cut off button, vent rib with bead 1/2 way down barrel, and 3 1/2 inch capability, I couldn't pass it up. It shoots real well and didn't need breaking in like my Mossberg 835 Ulti-mag did. I bought one of the first 835's about 10 years ago and I had to sit in front of the TV at night for about a week and spray oil on the slide bars and shuck the pump up and down to get it to work smoothly - all my friends who bought them at the same time did the same thing. It's worked great ever since.

The 870 is a great choice - I've got the camo special purpose with the 26" barrel and it did great on Pheasants and Chukars this last weekend in Idaho. I prefer the 870 Wingmaster - better steel and they function smoother, but the 870 Express guns work fine too and you don't need to worry about getting them all dirty.

As for shot size, I kill between 80 and 120 ducks every year (private club) and for the last 5 years I've gone to 2 3/4 inch BB's in the 1 1/8th oz. loads (for speed) and I shoot exclusively an Improved Cyl. choke which patterns perfectly with the BB's. That's the only combination I've found that really cuts down on the cripples. Most of the guys in the club shoot the same combination - BB's and improved cylinder. You just need to shoot straight since there aren't a lot of pellets to save you on an errant shot.

Good luck!