Do youth hunts, or clearcuts hurt Elk herds?

winterkill · 11-23-2002, 05:38 PM

A few years ago when I started hunting the Wilson and Trask units I would usually see elk or sign. In the Past few years I have seen less and less elk. I haven't even seen sign much, and which leads me to believe there just aren't elk like there was. In the Wilson and Trask units there is something like 50-60 cow elk tags given out every year. Since the invention of the Youth First time hunts their numbers have obviously decreased. Just think 50-60 less cow elk each year really adds up, when female numbers in ANY species is decimated, the whole species takes a hit.

I may be wrong. Over the past few years state forests have faced more opposition to logging, which slows down the process to clearcut, with more resources tied up to deal with the red tape, less areas are cut. This ****** me off. Areas that are clearcut support more deer and elk. Indians used to burn parts of Neahkahnie Mountain for clearings, so it is not that outrages an idea enviromentalists think it is. They are more concerned with saving a little bird then my need for food. If they want to buy a years worth of meat for me, I'll quit b-------.

What is anyone else's take on this issue?
Ian

maggot · 11-23-2002, 06:25 PM

I think the elk herds are healthy and not declining in the trask area...We have had very mild winters....and more people pressure, possibly pushing the animals into places people dont go very often.I was out today in the trask and saw a herd of about 50 elk, coming out of one "hole"...over a saddle...and deep into the next...they are out there...and they are getting wiser.

GutshotApe · 11-23-2002, 06:55 PM

There are a lot of elk out there but there would be more if we had increased logging. Ideal deer and elk habitat in the coast range are forests with many small clearcuts of 10 to 20 acres of different ages interspersed with patches of timber. Doesn't have to be oldgrowth - just timber for cover and lots of brushy clearcuts inbetween. And, road closures year-round to keep out poachers and the general public except during hunting season.

Norm · 11-23-2002, 07:06 PM

I think youth hunts are a very positive way of introducing young hunters to the sport. Out of 50 tags I doubt more than 10% are sucessfull. There are way more regular rifle cow tags allocated than youth tags in the Trask and Wilson. Increased pressure from both rifle and bows combined with less feed available in clearcuts from de-creased logging, have way more impact on populations. Letting spikes do most of the breeding because of low branch bull ratios is not helping the populations either. I think more restrictive harvests and shorter seasons are the answer. Move rifle season to 3+ and Bow to a two week cow season would make sense. But I think the youth hunts should stay.

Joe · 11-23-2002, 08:21 PM

There are no hunts in the Trask unit that even qualify for first time youth tags. I live in the Trask unit and just got back from my 12 year old son's first time youth hunt in the Lewis and Clark hunt up in Saddle Mt. which is one of the closest that has enough tags to qualify).

My son killed a great big cow on his first day of elk hunting! :grin:

:grin: We found three groups of elk before he killed his at 11 am. That area has a lot of cow tags and is still crawling with elk. The reason is clearcuts. Its ideal elk habitat.

I archery hunt in the Trask unit and have been watching the elk population decline ever since the Forest Service quit clearcutting. There are still lots of elk but not as many as there used to be. :depressed:

I don't know much about wildlife biology but I am certain that elk and especially deer need clearings to thrive.

Norm,
I have to disagree with you on spikes doing the breeding, at least in the Trask unit. Although the overall population is shrinking the bull to cow ratio is the best I have ever seen. I believe its due to the recently changed rifle seasons and the fact that everything is overgrown and harder to hunt. At least that is the case on Forest Service land.

Still I wouldn't mind a 3 pt. or better rule just because you get a lot more meat of a 2 1/2 year old bull than you get from a spike. Although them spikes are sure tasty.

[ 11-29-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Joe ]

Capin' Dan · 11-23-2002, 11:22 PM

winterkill I will start and age old debate here about killing or thinning the females species. It is proven science that taking some of the females is good herd management especially proven in whitetail deer management practices. I have seen it in other states over the pst 30 years. As areas and things change so do the herds. I think that they are still there they have just changes locations or areas. I still see a fair amount of elk on a regular basis in the scappoose and saddle mountain units.