where did they go?

Tacklebuster · 10-21-2002, 12:04 PM

Oddly enough, I have seen more numbers of deer this year than the last 5 seasons or so. I do not think the numbers are declining, I think they are simply adapting to different environments. I have seen more deer in places I have never seen them in before. I have not noticed any hair loss in my neck of the woods.

Chum King · 10-21-2002, 10:21 PM

Well, I hunted eastside this year so I haven't been out looking for the rascally blacktail.

However, regarding the hairloss syndrome, there are a couple of points to keep in mind:
1.) You are unlikely to see any significant evidence of the hairloss syndrome in the deer until the weather conditions get considerably worse. The time you will see deer showing the symptoms will likely be from mid-December on when the browse quality is declining, the temperature is declining, and the deer need more energy to keep up with the weather.
and 2.) The hair loss syndrome has generally been limited to areas below about 2,000 ft. in elevation. The theory is that the intermediate host (I believe it is a type of snail) for the bloodworm is not found at higher elevations (too cold during the winter?).

fishuntr2 · 10-21-2002, 11:49 PM

I am seeing fewer Blacktail deer this year than ever before. Hair-loss syndrome, x-cess song dogs, and more hunters might be contributing factors. I travel thru some good country every day going to and from work and I have been seeing a lot less than normal. It looks like the deer population is in decline. There is lots of feed and cover, but hardly any sign. Several of my favorite spots look like a desert this year as far as sign goes.....On an upward note, I have seen more bull elk this year during deer season, last friday we had 4 branched bulls feeding 75 yards in front of us with 6 cows. It would have been a perfect shot as they were broadside on a facing slope and didn't know we were there. Oh well....the deer season isn't over yet, then elk lookout!

Flying Roast Beef · 10-21-2002, 11:53 PM

Buy a cougar tag anyway or throw a shovel in the truck. Either way, shoot the cat if you see it. My opinion.

skein · 10-21-2002, 11:57 PM

fishuntr2,

Don't forget the upswing in cougars. Cougars eat about 1 1/2 deer a week, and there are lots of them around. I think they are accounting for more deer than coyotes ever thought about.

I also have heard much about the hair-loss problem, but I'm not seeing deer that look sick or mangy. I'm not suggesting the situation isn't real, just that I'm not seeing it first-hand. Anybody else in the same boat?

Skein

pdxkevin · 10-22-2002, 05:27 AM

Does anyone have a good cougar jerky recipe?

Everyone I have talked with says that they taste bad but no one has ever tried one. So I wonder if there isn't a way to cook 'em so they taste decent. Maybe jerky or some sort of spicy sausage?

If they taste good, it won't be long before their numbers are dropping. :grin:

fishuntr2 · 10-22-2002, 06:22 AM

I have yet to see a cougar where I live/hunt. Doesn't mean they aren't around. I have seen several bobcats. And there is at least 1 bear in the area. I can hear coyotes almost any night, sometimes on my property and close to the house. We have lost 2 housecats recently. Is it legal to hunt coyotes at night with a light? I very seldom see them during daylight hours but have shot several in the last couple of years. Maybe I should try and trap them? Also I and my family have seen deer missing patchs of hair since hunting season started. Mostly closer to town but my son saw a fork with a big bald spot on its side just across the river from our house. Don't know if we should shoot deer for eating purposes if they are patchy.
My dad says he tried cougar once and it tasted like pork

Bob

[ 10-22-2002, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: fishuntr2 ]

BlueWater · 10-22-2002, 08:41 AM

fishuntr2-
I live and hunt in your area and have noticed the same thing. Less deer sign than "normal" but the elk seem to be doing better than average. I know of one cat kill several months back on a just born calf not to far from you as the crow flys. :shocked:

As far as the song dogs go. If you call them they will come.

Joel

Myles · 10-22-2002, 02:16 PM

"It's somewhere between 30 to 40 percent below the levels we were counting just 10 years ago."
http://espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/..._deer_elk.html

Maybe something that could have been in the Oregonian hunting section a few weeks ago.

myles

Firedog · 10-22-2002, 04:40 PM

I think it is a combination of things. Hair loss being a possibility, but environment more of a factor. Blacktails thrive in brushy clearcuts and the area I hunt hasn't seen any active logging in quite some time so all the clearcuts a grown higher than you can see in. For the most part the few times I have been out this year I have seen a lot of deer sign, not a lot of deer but sign. I also think that the ban on hunting cougars with dogs has caused a problem since the cat populations have sky rocketed. They are very efficient at killing deer. Populations are down but I also think the deer are adapting to increased pressure and becoming even more nocturnal than they were before. Just My 2 cents worth.

I dont generally start hunting hard till the last couple weeks of season because I like to wait for the rains to get going. This year that doesn't look like it is going to happen. So I will be in the woods on a regular basis starting next Monday. I will let you know how the populations look in the Clackamas drainage. :smile:

[ 10-22-2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: firedog ]

winterkill · 10-22-2002, 06:39 PM

I know I hunt the same area as you, fishununtr, but I've seen quite a few deer this year, more then I usually do as a matter of fact. My problem is they are all does. I've only ever seen one deer that had the hair loss syndrome, and it had been hit by a car on the road. I don't think there are many cougars around because I've never seen one, and my dad hasn't in the 20 years he's been hunting around here. I've seen bear tracks, but how many deer can a bear run down and kill?
I'm curious where that cat kill was blue water? Not specifics, but generally speaking where at.

KingFisher85 · 10-23-2002, 05:32 AM

We need rain or you are not going to be seeing very many deer at all. I know there is a lot of deer around were I hunt. The last rain that we got a few weeks back, I seen bucks, does and many grouse all over the place. But now with no rain its like walking on potato chips. The deer hear you coming a mile away. They can also smell you better in this dryer weather.
Now for cougars. You do the "3" Ss, them are Shoot, shovel, and shut up!!!
:grin:

fishuntr2 · 10-23-2002, 09:31 AM

Winterkill,
Have you already filled your doe tag? I haven't been seeing much deer or deer sign on Buckleys. Down the road on Ralphs property there is plenty of sign, around the peter rabbit shortcut road. But all the Yahoos that camp at The park are hunting all over the area. A small fork was shot by some of that crowd above my house but thats all Ive heard taken from the general area. I have heard shots but don't know of any other kills. Which Saddle Mt. elk season do you have? Also was that you and your brother above Hilledegards the other day? My son and I hiked over from our house and saw 2 people that came from on top. We bushwacked back to our house and picked mushrooms so didn't go home empty-handed.
Bob

ultramag · 10-23-2002, 09:49 AM

Blacktail numbers are definitely on a the decline, not to say there aren't enough to go around still. Cat #'s are way up.I have seen 3 bears in the last 4 weeks.

springer_97011 · 10-23-2002, 12:03 PM

if you look at the odfw site they clame that bears predation on deer and elk is almost double the amount of cougars.and i know the bear population is very high.i hunted a cascade unit for deer this year near my house and i saw at least 3 times the blacktails i normaly do.

[ 10-23-2002, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: springer_97011 ]

fishuntr2 · 10-23-2002, 12:16 PM

Bluewater, Have you been hunting up Clear creek? I heard bow hunters took 5 Bull elk out of there this year. Maybe we ought to get a Vernonia roll call going? Longview has posted no entry on the roads that go up behind me but I guess you can walk in from 26. That area holds lots of wildlife.
Bob

winterkill · 10-23-2002, 04:04 PM

Fishunter,
are you talking about that new clearing over by 141/144 if you are then it probably was. I haven't filled my doe tag yet I've gotten 2 shots off and missed each time. I saw most of the does the first weekend of deer season when the doe tags are ineffective. Those people at the park ar ass----- they have stolen mikes electric fence and we have seen them on our farm hunting. (can't they tell a fence when they see one). I have 2nd season tags for saddle mtn. how many mushrooms did you pick, couldn't have been much with the rain we HAVEN'T had lately. I went out the other day and hardly got a pound. I haven't hunted ralphs this year because it is so close to the road, but maybe I will give it a try.
IAN

BlueWater · 10-23-2002, 11:07 PM

Winter Kill-
I sent you a Private message.

Bluewater.

fishuntr2 · 10-24-2002, 05:30 AM

Winterkill, I've picked about 20 lbs of chanterelles so far...The spots I pick aren't producing very well though. Hardly any buttons which are what we prefer for canning. My son and I have first season saddle mt. tags and they were a second choice so I still have preference points towards a cow tag. But I'm holding off on purchasing elk tags until right before the season starts...Those elk can cross the river easily and could be on either side of Timber Rd so I might go with a general tag ...Just have to wait and see. I'm in total agreement about the park hunters...Weekend hunters that think they have permission to hunt the whole area just because Ralph lets them hunt his property. The next time I catch one of those bozoes riding their 4-wheelers in a restricted area, I'm gonna get #'s and turn em in.
Bob

BlueWater · 10-24-2002, 09:14 PM

Fishunter2-
I bow hunted for deer this year out of the area but have been tagging along with my brother alot mainly towards the Coster(sp) main line. NO luck for him yet though.
I have drawn 2nd season saddle mt tags, my second choice also. Hopfully it will be tinder dry for the first season and poor down rain for the second.

Ya I know who am I kidding.
I also have heard the same on the bulls up in Clear Creek. To bad most of them were hunted in closed ground from fire danger to get them. I guess some just don't care about the rules.

I would not be opposed to getting together for a grouse hunt or something sometime. I guess we could think about it.

BlueWater.

fishuntr2 · 10-28-2002, 09:44 AM

Well, the deer drought is over, at least for my son! Jason bagged a small buck saturday morning but what is really neat is that he jumped it then followed it till he got a shot. And he saw several other deer so now we know where they are hanging. It is brushy timber and the rubs are thick. Also lots of elk sign....