Who picks up drop offs

[Bait O' Eggs]

Here is a photo (sorry for the poor quality of photo, the scanner didnt do may any favors) of a bull I found dead this year bow hunting in central Oregon. I was 2.4 miles by GPS to the truck. I have a major ridge to get over then another vast canyon to cross with a second ridge before I get to the truck. I dont have a packframe with me. These horns wont tie on my fanny pack very easy and once I broke the head off the carcass it was bigger and heavier than it looked at first.

Who would pack these horns back to the truck?

FYI - I did and it wasnt an easy or enjoyable chore, but I would do it again. Bow in one hand, horns and stinky head in the other was a couple hand fulls.

I know waterdog says horns wont even make good soup and horns mean nothing to him. I like putting them in the front yard under the tree, they make great redneck yard ornaments. :tongue:

I dont know how long this bull had been dead. As you can see it is down to the bones. There was still a little hair on the skull, and there was 4 or 5 inches of hair yet on the legs above the hooves. The entire frame was still attached together except the front legs. I found no arrow. The head still stinks as all the meat has not been eaten by the bugs yets.

I have no idea how it died, It has little 2 inch long 6th points on each side. I doubt a cougar would have taken it down if it was healthy, but maybe. Maybe an arrow from early in the season. I doubt since it still smelled so bad it was from the winter or last rifle season, it has been hot in central Oregon for a long time. I dont really have a good feel for how fast an animal is consumed once it dies in the forest, but I would guess this is a couple months dead. There was a lot of loose hair laying on the ground and the hide was gone.

Surely I could have posted one of the photos with me and the bull and told some great fabricated story of the great hunt. I expect my brother to get one of those photos in the mail this week and call for the story. hmmmmmmmmmm....... what to tell him, he has yanked my chain more than once.

[wildlife fishing]

Tell your brother it was a good de boneing. This is what was left for evidence.

WFA

[Bait O' Eggs]

I like the de-boning story. But the photo I mailed him is just me and the horns. It looks like a caped out head in the photo. :tongue:

I am waiting for the phone to ring, muh ha ha ha ha ha

[Miss B Haven]

Looks to me like that Bull got drunk (maybe love drunk ) , tripped on that down tree and broke it's neck. :grin: Help - I've fallen down and can't get up [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

PS - That picture looks like something out of a good horror movie - wow. Bet that woke you right up when you saw it :shocked:

[ 09-25-2002, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

[Flying Roast Beef]

It hasn't been there that long. I'm surprised the coyotes didn't find it. If they had there's no way it would be that intact. Had the antlers been chewed at all by the rodents? That's another clue though, when did the bulls come out of velvet? How fresh does that rack look? Interesting puzzle to say the least.

[Bounty Hunter]

That's just awesome. Thanks for that story and the picture Roy. For a minute I thought you were going to say you left it, and since I'm headed out to the Ochocos this weekend I was going to look for it... (assuming that's where you were).

My dad said in NM you couldn't have salvaged that?? Something about it belonging to the state at that point???

[Bait O' Eggs]

FRB - You gave me the clue I didnt think of, which is velvet on the horns. The horns are polished up and hard, so it couldnt be a few months dead. Some of the spikes I saw hunting still had velvet hanging off their horns, but the bigger bulls were all polished up.

With the stink of the skull, I am sure it wasnt last years kill not found, or winter kill. I think it would have been in the last month. I could have stood this skeleton up and if the front legs would have been attached it would have looked like it belonged in a museum, since it was all still in tact.

I am going to try and bleach the skull and make an arizona mount of out it.

[tailchaser]

I would have to say if there wasn't any velvet, and the bugs hadn't got all of it, it was probably killed due to an arrow about a week or so before you found it. A good tale of the tape is if there are any fractured bones on the rib cage area. Lots of times the critters will knaw the meat off, but won't break that many bones, and it looks like this one was in tact pretty well. My guess is, it was a bad shot by a bowhunter (Guts or Rump) and the bull made it a day or two but expired leaving it to the vultures. The vultures and scavengers (bears, coyotes, etc...) will pick it clean in three to four days.

Definitely this years kill. Hate to see that sort of thing happen, but sometimes it does. Lucky for you though.

tc

[chummer]

FYI: were you willing to punch your tag for horns from an unknown or winter kill? In oregon, only shed antlers are allowed to be kept, They cannot be attached to a skull. If you were to be stopped by F&G officer his options may have been to confiscate the head and cite you, force you to punch your tag and cite you for not punching your tag upon taking possession of the rack or cite you for possessing a rack without a punched tag. Truely an awesome rack, no doubt! :shocked: But ignorance of game laws won't get you off the hook, A 12 yo kid might slide but not us older boys

[tailchaser]

Chummer has a point. I actually got checked because I had a rack sticking out the bed of my pickup about 4 years ago from a skull I had found while bowhunting. Thankfully, the officer had some sense about it becuase of the bugs crawling through the skull still, he didn't make me tag it. I also showed him the pile of old bones where it was to verify my find. Since I was honest about it, he didn't bother me any more. Thank goodness some officers just aren't out there to pester people. But yes the rule does state that. Something to think about next time you see such an occurrence. Is it big enough to tag it??

tc

[Bait O' Eggs]

I am gonna have to check with my gammie brother and see how this works. I believe I have heard something about the issue you mentioned and didnt even think about it when I packed the horns off the hill and drug them home.

I believe if you break the skull in 1/2 so both antlers are not attached together it is legal. But I am only going from something I may have heard a long time ago. :whazzup:

TC- I did check out the skeleton for any signs of wounds etc.... every bone was there and still attached except the upper shoulder blade and front leg. The lower floating ribs were kind of sagging, but there was not a broken rib on the animal. No chew marks on either the horns or bones. The 4th tine on the left side is broken off. I kind of wish I had a metal detector to check for a bullet or broadhead etc.....

The thing that first made think it was a little older was all the hair on the ground. The hair was all loose and just covering the ground for a few foot radius around the animal. I couldnt believe the hide would discinegrate that fast.

I got more photos of it on the skeleton if a gammie has a problem.

Kind of hard to punch a tag with hunting days left for a skull and some horns. maybe next time I will take a rib bone and leave the horns.

The big bonus is the ivory teeth were still in the skull.

[Boedy]

One year hunting in Desolation unit I came across 4 dead elk with arrows in them. Made me so mad to see the waste. One was lung shot and down off a road by a creek about 75 yards I know someone shot him from the road and the bull ran down to the creek to die. Anybody that tried to follow him would have found it easy I don’t think they even looked and the arrow was still in Rib cage so it had to be a good hit. All four of the elk where not deep in the brush or hard to find heck I found them and wasnt even looking.

I’ve never Bow hunted (and don’t plan on it in the future) so I am just speculating but I think sometimes that bow hunters wound more animals then they take. I know the same thing happens with a rifle but I think an Elk can suck up a poor hit arrow wound and not bleed out as fast as a poor shot with a rifle so more go unfound. You hit a bull in the chest with a .338 mag and it’s going down sooner rather then later but the same doesn’t go for an Arrow. An arrow can go in the chest and miss all vital organs letting the elk run off for days or weeks until they bleed out or die from infection. There are good shots and bad shots be it with a gun or a Bow and I know that many Bow hunters are very good and never take a shot that is to far or not going to be a clean kill but from what I have seen there are to many that just try to stick them and hope for the best. Lot fewer margins for error with a bow I guess. Plus I have never found 4 elk with bullet holes in them in a week ether. Looking at that picture just made me remember that year and I thought I would rant about it no offence to all you bow hunters out there who know how to do the job right.

[ 09-26-2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Boedy ]

[chummer]

Sounds and looks alot like winterkill with a good snow to cover it before the varmints could get to it. After the snow melted, not much left that they wanted. Any gnawing on the antlers from rodents? they chew sheds for the nutrients.

[outdoor.spec.ops]

You keep refering to the "stink" of the head, and using this to tell how old the kill is. Well my drother let his elk head be cleaned by the bugs and critters, and it took months to do this, just laying the head in a pile of brush. There was still hair and plenty of "STINK" on it over 4 months latter, so I dont know how important the "STINK" factor is in aging the critters remains.

[Wak]

Even if this animal died 2 weeks ago, it seems funny that the predators don't have it spread out.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Well I guess I am a fugitive from the law I guess we can all learn something here about bringing forest treasures home.

You cannot collect horns that are attached to a skull. Something about lowlifes who shoot animals, leave the head in a tree for the bugs to cleanup, then go back and get their horns later in the year when they dont have to use their tag. I would guess if lowlifes would do that in the first place the written law wouldnt stop them anyway.

It is legal to collect and sell horns that are not attached to a skull that dropped off naturally.

I am sure it is only a matter of time before I get that knock at the door and Mr. blue uniform hands me a ticket. Maybe if I hid the horns at a buddies and they couldnt prove I had them, or I say I was just joshing ya on ifish and I didnt pack them off the hill, ya thats it, I never packed them home, tooks some photos and left it for the critters to chew on.

[ 09-27-2002, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[tailchaser]

I'm not sure Boedy is right on with that statement about the bowhunters but it's a bashing we get all the time from rifle guys. I've hunted with both weapons and have seen both sides of the coin but can say one thing. It's the friggn idiots with the weapons that are the problem. Not the weapon themselves. Because you found a sorry scene from a bowhunter I would be careful about putting others in the same boat. I've killed elk that haven't moved a step after my shot with a bow and take every precaution that every instance is the same outcome. Quick and easy. I've seen rifle hunters hit them in the rump and guts just the same and it's the same outcome as an arrow. Long and nasty tracking jobs, and sometimes no animals to show for it. I take offense when someone points to the bow, but not when they point at the idiot who shot them. These a-holes are all over during both seasons. Too bad we couldn't have a limit on ethical practices in the state. We could fight for hours blaming each others practices both of them work right if they're done responsively.

tc

[WaterDog]

Roy, does that mean you’re a low life? I didn’t think you could get much lower that you already are.

Ah just mount it and hang it next to those Merganser’s. :tongue:

If you need a place to stash them I got living room with vaulted ceilings that are bare. You know I’ll never get a set horns on my own.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Stash what???? :whazzup: :whazzup: :whazzup:

I would be happy to taxidermy one of those does you shoot. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] We would have lots of room to work with the ears Maybe we could make it like a jackalope, I saw some nice plastic horns used for rattlin bucks in at the sporting goods store. I dont think anybody would notice the horns were plastic. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[ 09-27-2002, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[springer_97011]

everybody talking about wounded animals is just giving animal activist ammo.this type of thing should not be talked about in a public forum.please keep these kinf of comments to yourself or none of us will be able to hunt.

[MasterCaster]

sorry springer_97011 but its the facts. People wound animals every year. Some are legitimate mistakes but most are just carless people that dont care. Those kind of people should just stay home. I am a rifle hunter but I also have a bow. I havent gave bow hunting a go yet because Im not confident enough that I have the patience to wait until the animal is within range and within my "dead zone". there are alot of good hunters out there that do everything the "right" way. What we need to do is find a way to either educate or eliminate the not so responcible hunters. They are the kind of people that give the "tree huggers" the ammo.

Jon

[ 09-27-2002, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: MasterCaster ]

[tailchaser]

I don't think by saying animals get wounded gives them any ammo. It's not like the ODFW doesn't realize that some get shot and don't get retrieved. Anyone would be nieve to think it all happens in a perfect world and every shot brings home the bacon.

If you step around issues and not talk about them it only shows the old earth muffins that they're making progress. I'm not ashamed to talk about it and hopefully keep it from happening more. By educating people, not being afraid of them. They can kiss hali-butts for all I care. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

tc

[springer_97011]

all it took was 1 commercial to eliminate hound hunting for cougar and bear. also archery hunting has grown over 200% the last several years with most coming in from rifle hunting to have less crowdede seasons.

[ 09-27-2002, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: springer_97011 ]

[Gus Orviston]

Hunting Ukiah cow season, I found a cow that had been killed early in the season and lost by a rifle hunter get consumed quickly, it was picked clean like the this one with the 9 day hunt. What did most of the picking were the buzzards and eagles. Within a day they had exposed the gut area and stripped the rib cage. Everyday I hunted in that area I approached slowly to see if coyotes, cats or bears would be around, but I never saw them or their tracks. The birds did the most damage from what I could tell.

From that day on I realized that animals don't go to waste when they are lost, that is not to say don't strive/practice to make the perfect arrow/bullet and placement, but ma nature is amazing.

[MasterCaster]

I agree with tailchaser Its not the weapon that is used its the person behind it. I have seen wounded animals get away from rifle hunters also.

We were cow elk hunting a couple years ago in the ochocos and heard shots back towards camp. A group of guys had shot from the road only 100yrds from our camp at 3 cows and a small bull. The animals were about 400yrds off the road on a ridge. They ended up hitting 3 animals. We got back to camp to find them tracking not more than 50yrds behind our camp. We decided to help them track as it was starting to get dark. Once we began tracking we noticed that the tracks with blood didnt match what the "hunters" claimed. Two cows had been hit but the bull was also hit . All animals were lost and never recovered. Just goes to show any weapon can wound and not kill an animal if not used correctly.

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile: