Timber Companies

Wak · 09-16-2002, 08:36 PM

Why won't these timber companies open their land for walk in bowhunters, but open the gates for rifle hunters? Fire danger is not always an excuse.

skein · 09-16-2002, 09:34 PM

The word I've heard for years is that the rifle hunters will pull the gates down or shoot the locks up if the timber companies don't open them up. Seems that bow hunters are more courteous and law-abiding.

The problem with that statement is that it is a rash generalization, and none of us buy the idea that bow hunters are a more noble species, or that all rifle hunters are slobs.

I can believe there's some truth in it though, if you think of some of the jerks we run into on the river and realize what they must be like when they go hunting. It's the "Beer and Gear" crowd. The road sign s h o o t e r s. The guys who pull into camp so drunk they can hardly walk.

What's the real shame is that most of us are decent sportsmen who would no more think of pulling a gate down than we would robbing a bank.

Any of you timber company guys agree? Or is that just an old wife's tale? Set me straight.

Skein

tailchaser · 09-17-2002, 05:10 AM

I used to work security in Weyerhauser here in Coos Bay in college during the summer and the sad truth is all of the big wigs in the area are rifle hunters. Kind of the "old way" you might say and they don't care for bowhunters sticking thier deer and elk. I was standing at a meeting the week before opening day and there was no fire concern at all. One of the guys mentioned should we open it? The next one said na, we can let our own people hunt but we don't need the public shooting a bunch of bulls in here. So they closed it. Absolutely pitiful. What they'll do is open it for a single weekend but not publish it, so they can say they did. I've sat in rain so hard you couldn't see 20' for hours and they still claim fire danger. Sore subject for me I guess.

tc

strgnslyr · 09-17-2002, 07:44 AM

it's about time you became a member
instead of just reading

yes i agree it s_ _ k s !

CrazyHorse · 09-17-2002, 08:24 AM

skein,
I appreciate the fact that you state that just because you are a rifle hunter doesn't make you a drunken slob. Some of those jerks on the river are probably bow hunters also. no matter how you hunt there will always be those few that are idiots.

That being said, I will jump on the other side of the fence for a second. some of the security guards up there are real jerks themselves. As you've probably guessed I am a Rifle hunter. I used to hunt The coast Range until one of the security guards made it so unbearable to hunt there that I quit hunting there.

This guy would tell our party it was ok to hunt an area then close and lock the gates behind us. then when we try ro get out he refuses to
open it again saying he never allowed us in and that we weren't supposed to be there....he has let us in, we get an elk, we go back out to get a powersaw wench to get the elk, then he doesn't want to let us go back in to retrieve it...He has forced us to take our camp trailer out over very rough roads because he wouldn't allow us to go back through the gate etc etc.

Now let me reiterate that EVERY time we went through that gate we stopped to ask permission before we proceeded. After dealing with this guy for a few years I can see how someone might get to the point where they would want to pull down a fence or shoot the lock off of one.

But that is not really what the issue is here...
There is obviously much more danger from a rifle than a bow during fire danger times, and I totally agree that if a rifle hunter can hunt than a bow hunter CERTAINLY should be able to. remember also, that it might seem that rifle hunters get in more but it could be just that generally rifle seasons are later in the year than bow seasons and usually more rain has fallen by that time.

But believe me, I have rifle hunted for years and it is not just the bowhunters that get locked out for fire danger. I have many times, one year I lost half my season due to fire danger, and when you only have a week (elk hunting), that really hurts.

We are all sportsman here and we love to hunt. If the guards are blocking bowhunters then this is a fault with the guards, not with the rifle hunters.

just my .03

GutshotApe · 09-17-2002, 08:31 AM

I was a forester with a large private timber company in SW Oregon for 22 years

. Usually our lands were open for recreation year-round (although not all gates were open- some were "walk in only"). The only exceptions were bad fire seasons when the dry dangerous conditions generally overlapped with bow season. Sometimes it was hot & dry into rifle deer season and twice we saw woods closures much more extensive :shocked: than 2002.

There might be one or two woods managers from small companies who hunt elk with a rifle and who keep bowhunters out for that reason - but that's not widespread. I know of one Coos Co concern that only allows its employees and friends of the bigshot owners to hunt - and they don't like bowhunting and don't allow it on their 15,000 acrs. Generally, private timberland managers want the deer & elk thinned out and welcome safe hunters. Most closures are for bona fide reasons.

GSApe [img]graemlins/program.gif[/img]

skein · 09-17-2002, 12:24 PM

CrazyHorse,

I, too, was a bowhunter until a couple of years ago. I just got tired of trying to hunt in 90 degree heat, then scrambling to save my kills before they went bad. Mainly what I was trying to get across, especially to our new and/or young hunters, was that nobody has to get boozed up to have a good time in the woods, nor do they have to practice firearm skills by s h o o t i n g roadsigns along the way. Most hunters know that, but it doesn't hurt to say it once in a while.

We're losing hunting access at an alarming rate, like that loss of lands up by Heppner, or just through urban sprawl. I'm for anything that helps us retain or gain back hunting access. Anything, that is, except rolling over and playing dead. Wouldn't you have loved to have had a video of that guard letting you in, then locking the gate behind you. You probably could have gotten him fired (which he deserved).

Anyway, that's a good heads-up. If some guard lets me in through a gate, I think I'll have him write me a note that says it's okay that I'm up in there. I'll tell him it's in case I run into someone else who questions whether or not I'm trespassing. Sort of a little insurance against two-sided talk.

See ya in the hills.

Skein

CrazyHorse · 09-17-2002, 03:34 PM

Very well put skein, and yesI would have loved to have proof that that guard was doing what he was doing. If I did have proof I would probably still be hunting up there to this day having the gates opened by a new guard :smile:

Last I heard that guard no longer works there (probably got too many complaints...a few of them from me) but I have hunted the High cascade hunt the past few years and will probably continue to do that.

Best of luck to you this year.
CH

Megabites · 09-17-2002, 04:40 PM

We must remember that these lands are private lands. The timber companies have no obligation to let us in for any reason. If everyone that hunted the land would treat it as a privilage we would not even have to have this talk. I'll even go one step furthure and say that all public land is owned by me as much as it is by you. So don't mess up my land. Remember the golden rule for the outdoors. "Leave it better than you found it." And to all of the idiots that shoot signs, break gates, litter, ect. - STAY HOME! you give hunters a bad name.

Norm · 09-17-2002, 06:12 PM

I've been bummin all season about the closure's. next year I'll scout more backup areas in national and state forests. My plan B area has not been good to me. This is the first year in the last ten I have not even had an shot at a cow! There is always late season I guess.

skein · 09-17-2002, 06:28 PM

Megabites,

You put in words exactly what I was trying to say, only I used twice as many words and didn't do nearly as good a job. It's my land, so *I* need to take care of it. It's your land, so I need to be a considerate guest. Either way, it's up to *me* to see that it's a better place when I leave.

That says it all.

Skein

THE KIWANDA KID · 09-18-2002, 09:33 PM

I wish I could tell you what timber company my father in law works for and some of you do but heres my two cents worth from the viewpoint of an old school timber operator with a large amount of common sence. The concerns for fire hazzards are valid and that is only one reason for SOME closures. Liability is another and so is vandalisim and loss of property (trees, gates, rock etc.) Timber companies are also subject to fines from the state and federal forest circuses for violations in logging practices . Even when a company is not actively logging a tract of ground they are responsible for maintaining to the standards set by said forest circus. If a heavy rain fall occurs(generaly rifle season) and a road that has been plugged or abandoned is traveled on,

it may muddy up a stream or disturb ground that is sensitive in itself causing a violation to the forest practices act. I can go on and on for a while why there are VALID and REASONABLE reasons for road closures in any season. I think the best way I've heard it described was by megabites. These are private lands that we do not own, maintain, or pay taxes on and therfore should treat them with the respect we would give any private landowner. Good hunting boys and girls and if you should need help getting a critter out from behind a YELLOW gate in the tillamook area give me a shout and I will see if I can help.

Wak · 09-22-2002, 09:24 AM

It seems that someone walking behind a gate would be a lot less risky than letting people drive through the open gates. I understand that it is private property and it is their right to open it when they want, I just don't understand their reasoning.

GutshotApe · 09-22-2002, 11:00 PM

WAK - The reasoning of many timberland managers is that they have a lot to lose from allowing public access during fire season (and little to gain). One careless act or one accident can result in a fire costing millions of dollars. Most timber mgrs. like their jobs and want to work until old enough to retire. Imagine trying to explain to your boss in a faraway city why you let hunters come in during late summer's worst fire conditions resulting in a big fire that cost $millions. :depressed: