Plug fishing Frustration...........

[Fishin Magician]

I have been experiencing something the last 3 trips that I can only justify by the water temps being so much colder lately. I have had probably 20 takedowns on plugs and only got two to stay hooked. My normal ratio of takedowns to hookups is generally over 90%. Yesterday I had fish ripping line off the reels only to come up empty...... It didnt matter which plug I was running ( Hotshot 30 35 40, Tadpolly ) . I have spoken to some renowned pluggers and they are experiencing the same thing. One of the best says it just happens and its a cold water bite. The fish dont want to eat the plug, they are just trying to get it out of thier face. I would be curios to hear from fellow plug fishers what you think.............

John

[fishchaser]

I'm a plugging fool. Move your hook back. Use a swivel and a couple split rings and move it back to butt of the plug.

Have you read the book "Plug Fishing For Steelhead"? I do believe it is a Frank Amato botk. You don't even have to read it. Go to the nearest Fishermans,or GI Joes and look at the front of the book. You will see the plugs on the front. They all have the hook at the butt of the plug.

I would also change the hook that comes with the plug. The only time I don't change the hook is when I'm plugging for Trout. I use the MUSTAD Triple grip hooks. They seem to hook into everything, and the they don't let go! When using a 35 or 40 plug I will use a #4 treble, again, Mustad triple grips.

I hope this will help you hook those fish

[Fishen Fool]

Bigger hooks!!! Perferably Owner

[blast and cast]

John, I am fairly certain that this is happening because you have not taken me fishing this year, the fish gods are punishing you. I can think of an easy solution! Friday is open!

Joey

[RichH]

I've had the same problem with normally at least an 80% hookup rate and now around 20%. I think the cold water may be to blame but I've had some viscious strikes side drifting eggs and even got 2 this weekend that bit while reeling in. :shocked:

I've tried different hooks without any noticeable difference in hookup rate. Lets hope for warmer water I guess.

[Bait O' Eggs]

It could be the fact that Fishbait owns the front half of the boat and like Steve, the boat just doesnt know how to catch fish.

buy him out, ......or better yet, dump the boat it has been funked and may never catch fish properly. Get a clean start with a fresh boat and watch the ratio go back up.

I took him out once and it took years to get the boat fishing right again

[fop]

Sounds to me that you are using Power Pro or Tuff Line junk. That stuff is just , na, not gonna go there and will not get into a line debate.

If yes is the answer go back to good mono.

If the answer is no I would seriously change the brand or type of hooks you are using. You didn't tell us all the story.

fop

[Jennie@ifish]

FOP, do you feel the same way about Kwikfish for salmon and braided?

Jen

[Cosmic Lazy Susan]

Here's the book cover.


Dale

[blast and cast]

Not to speak for John, but I know that he modifies most of his plugs with new hooks, bead chains, etc. Not sure of hook size or type, but he does not fish stock plugs.

Joey

[fishchaser]

THAT'S IT!!
See how all the hooks are BEHIND the plug? That's the way I do it. Haven't lost a fish plug fishing since I started doing that AND changing the hooks to Triple grips.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Belive me,

John knows how to handle steelhead plugs and gear (line) as well as anyone.

I think you should wash your boat and anchor rope in Lemon Joy mixed with Anise to get the smell of Fishbait off your boat

[Get Bit]

John,
Maybe "Plunker" can shed some light on this subject. I think he's out of town right now but hopefully when he gets back. He's probably the most accomplished plugger I know. Afterall, he did write the book.

Get Bit

[Uglygreen]

Well, im hoping they will stick better tomorrow (at least on my pole) but I can almost guarentee that if they do stick they will all be bucks.... see ya in the morning John.

PS as to your actual question. I have absolutely no idea.

UG

[ 01-20-2004, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Fishin Magician]

Ok Thanks for all your opinions. They make sense. Only thing I disagree on is the mono thing. I am 100% on the side of the coin. I fish braided exclusively. The theory in my head was just confirmed by a friend of mine that has been plugging since......well lets say forever. His theory is that the fish's metaolism is slowed down by the cold water and they dont react to the plug until it has gotten beside or behind them. At one of those times the fish turns and grabs the front or top of the plug. If this theory is accurate then the fish indeed doesnt have the hooks in its mouth , it only has the plug. As soon as it realizes resistence it lets go = takedown/no hookup. That seems to be the most plausable reason for so many takedowns and not solid hookups.

John

[TH]

I too pull a lot of plugs and I think braided line is great.
I run a #15 mono section about four feet or so.. and then the rest hi-vis Tuf LIne XP

I mostly fish Tadpollies and the older wiggle warts.. and use one #2 Owner treble off the back, I don't recall the last fish that didn't hook up! I didn't miss a fish last year.... I don't think.. :smile:

Get those rods nice and flat and away you go!
Nothing better than seeing the rod go down!

[Fishin Magician]

Amen- I think people dont realize how important it is to have those rods flat. TH are you running a treble on the back of the Tadpolly with or without a swivel......????

Dale- thanks I have read it over a dozen times.

[Flatfish]

Depending on the water temps( 30s is cold in my eyes. 40 degrees plus is " Normal winter temp"). A change in plugs may help.

Bigger bodied plugs like Mag Tads and the Kwikfish/Flatfish. I would say Mag Warts too. But they must be fished on fairly short lines to keep them from dredging bottom too bad.

In my experience with cold temps, the K-12s and U-20s get more to stick as far as the strike/hookup ratio.I have never fished the newer K-13s. they should be perfect too. But in faster waters, they may not stay down. If you have some that catch fish, tune them really carefully and give them a try.

We fished eastern oregon rivers when temps were in the low to mid 30s and did real well on the Flatfish.

If everyone you speak with is having the same problem, and I am assuming they are fishing the traditional hot shots, tads, and warts. Then the fish need to be turned on some more.

On the rods, you may want to try a fairly loose drag( as an experiment) and a stiff fast rod to see if you can get them after they have turned.

I would be willing to bet the mini salmon plugs would catch more than the standard fast water plugs. At least until it warms up.

Good Luck with the short strikers.

Mark and the dog.

[WAngler]

I would try adding a bead chain or a swivel. ... as well as uping the hook size.

as well as maybe try hookin up with the fish before they burry it...

[Mr.Kitch'nPass]

John, I run mine like TH no problems, once they get that owner there mine :grin:

[ANDYCOHO]

This has been some great reading! Thanks to all who have replied [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I have started putting a lot more faith into my plugs lately, I have learned a lot and have put a lot of fish in the boat :grin:

Thanks again!

[Crazy Fisherman]

FM, We have been having the same problem punking this year, lots of pull downs and can`t hang on to them. The cold water thing might have something to do with it. :depressed:

[HarpMan]

Thanks for the plug on my plug book you guys.

John we all share the take down no fish frustration during the cold water plugging times. There is one thing to look at. After the lost fish event or the take down miss check the hooks for scales, often I have noticed in the cold water scenario the hooks come back with scales indicating a lateral line slap rather than an attempt to mouth the plug.

I have found success with the problem cold water take downs by loosening the drag to the point of almost having line come off the reel, then on the take let the fish run until you see your line moving horizontal towards the bank below the boat then raise the rod with pressure and thumb on the spool to set the hook.

Good Luck

My 2 cents
Plunker
Author "Plug Fishing For Steelhead"
Siletz River Guide Service

[ 01-20-2004, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Plunker ]

[cully]

"Get those rods flat". Would I be correct in my thinking that this means the rod in the rod holder? Or not using rod holder and laying rod down in the boat is what is being meant by getting rod flat? I've only pulled plugs a couple of times and I've got soooo much to learn.

[Gone Fishin]

Steelhead Bungee.

Size 2 Mustad Ultra Point Triple Grip Hooks.

[Fishin Magician]

thanks again....great info

[fop]

Jennie,

To answer your question to me about Kwikfish and braided, I ran 80# Tuff Line when I guided the Kenai for years and I did like it because the water is very fast and those Kenai Kings usually buried the rod so hard that I wouldn't want the clients to even set the hook. 1 year I landed 32 straight strikes with mostly Kwikfish before loosing one.. Went 19 straight before that was my best until then. I also took off the factory hooks (trebles back then were legal)and replaced with a different brand that I had to sharpen to a very "sticky" point. (Trying to avoid a hook debate here) I also had to replace those hooks on nearly every fish by tossing the rear hook and sometimes tossing both front and rear hooks. I bought them by the thousand.

Another reason I used the 80# was because of the tight quarters we had to fish in. When I had a King on and it got tangled with some mono lines I usually won. But, I did lose a double to braided by a guide that was using 100# braided and 100 leader. Ate off both my Kings. Geez, I needed them..

When the Kenai River went to a single hook regulation I completely quit using Kwikfish and went to eggs because of the land to hookup ratio.
My precentage went way down with the single hook on the Kwikfish.

On the Kasilof I would only use mono either flatlined with Kwikfish or back bounced lead with eggs. I believe that braided has no forgivness for any errors that a person does while they are setting or fighting the fish. I believe that mono will give a bit and allow for a bit of cushion.

You are now seeing that there is some kind of a shock bumper bungee or something like that. Geez, I wonder why somebody invented that?

Yes, a zillion fish will be landed on braided and a zillion will be landed on mono, but, in my boat there will be no braided again. Yes, I tried it..

I also see people using a shock leader in front of braided as per TH and others and thats probably so ya don't rip the non-stretch out or a little invisible than the braided and I think that is a pretty good idea. IMHPO

Now, back to the cold water problem, I think that the fish during the cold water days just aren't aggressive enough to really grab on and get their hiners kicked. Grab a plug and miss the hook is a pretty minor strike but grab a plug and get the hook in their mouth can be a memory for a life time.

fop

[David Johnson]

Cully-

The reference to "rods flat" is let the fish take it until the rod is bent down flat and not throbbing any more. Too many people get excited and want to grab the rod too quick before the fish has it down flat.

I don't care how hard the fish is hitting or how long it takes but I want that rod down flat before the hook is set and you can almost garantee that fish is landed. Unless of course you're having a streak of misses like FM.

[rola76]

Maybe new hooks aren't necessary, but definitely "SHARP" hooks!! I've lost fish, I know, because I've neglected to sharpen my hooks.

Also, like others have said, let the rod do the work. Once it's "throbbing," you can pretty much guarantee that it's hooked itself if you have sharp enough hooks.

[blacktail]

Maybe a smaller size plug (wee wart) so they are getting the whole thing in their mouth even if they come from the side to get it?

I also agree with the swivel or short beadchain between the plug and the hook as well as upgrading to Owner trebles.

Let us know how you do.

Mike

[Redneck]

anyone know where to get those bead chains with the loops on both ends? i've read the plug fishing for steelhead book and i think its excellent!

i live in troutdale and i don't want to drive 100 miles to get the bead chains. i've looked all over the place and can't find any. please help!
thanks,
redneck

[Coot22]

Back that drag off...only thing you can do. Dont change your hooks, line, add a swivel, anything! Doing this just changes the action of your plug. I am a firm believer in the "action" of the plug first. Dont change a thing! Just back the drag off and hope for the best.

-Coot

[Hooker]

Interesting point David. The rule on my boat is to wait 4 seconds before touching the rod after a strike. Most of the time the rods are "flat"...which results in a higher land ratio.

[DockDrifter]

Some plugs require changes and others do not.. Don't get carried away trying to change them all.. Also, can anyone recomend a good steelhead plug rod around $125..Looking to pick up a couple new ones and I don't want to spend to much..As anyone tried the Cabelas rods?

[blacktail]

HSR 9000 from TH rods would be a great choice.

Mike

[TH]

Yes
I like the HS 9000
they run $125
I have a couple demos right now that I'd make you a great deal on!
They are the best steelie plug rod in my opinion.

[cully]

I'm hopping that some of you plug pullers are still on this thread to answer another question. A problem I had last week was line twist while pulling a hot shot.. I ran the mainline (12#) straight to the snap. No swivel. After a period of 20 minutes or so I could see that the plug was not working so I reeled it in. The line was so twisted that I called that line done and removed it when i got home and tossed it. My other plug rod that i started to use was rigged with mainline (12#) to diver/with swivel and 4-5 foot leader (10#) tied to the swivel on the diver and then leader baited with sandshrimp. It ran fine. What causes line twist? Do I need to run a swivel off the hotshot? Again, Help.

[Lure Dragger]

I don't know if Hot shots need to be tuned or not, I have not fished with them that much. Also sounds like maybe you were trolling it too fast or using it in a caurrent that was too fast to allow it too work properly, causing it too spin over instead of working the way that it should.

[Uglygreen]

Yeah cully, those plugs gotta be tuned so they run straight and true. They will also roll if they get some crud on them like grass or moss or something. Im still learning when it comes to plug fishing and plug selection, but I had one out of the box the other day that just would not tune and got tossed after a half hour of trying to make it work. Good luck.

UG

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

the plug probably got a leaf or some grass on the bill and if your plug rods arent light enough you probably didnt even notice it.

I tie my hot shot clip straight to the main line and have for years the only time I get twist is if the plug tune is bad the plug is cracked or I have something stuck to the plug.

another trick I do is have he people in the front of my boat put the rods in the gunnel the gunnel blocks are speaced perfect for the trigger grip to lock in not a chance in the world of them coming out.

I find this to make watching the plugs a lot easier because I dont have someone figiting around and moving the rod when I am trying to see how the plugs are working also no one is gonna get antsy and jerk the rod before it is completely burried.

another thing I do is when I see the rod start to fold I pull back on the oars as hard as I can to help set the hook. I have seen many steelies come up from behind and hit the plug sending a belly into the line causing a miss or a bad hook up. pulling back hard on the oars when the rod goes over stops a lot of the missed hook ups.

thats about all I can tell you hopefully it is of some help.


Quasi


.

[cully]

yes, all replies help a lot. Grass and weeds must have been the problem because I remember picking it off the plug, I don't think i was moving down the river to fast ( that's been my problem in the past) and I did check the plug tune by running it along side the boat and it look good but I'll keep watchful eye on plugs before dropping them back. Thanks for the help all.

[IFISH4U]

IN MY OPINION THE PROBLEM IS BRAIDED LINE, IT WORKS GREAT FOR FISHING KWICKIES AND ALVINS, BUT NOT FOR PLUGGING FOR STEELIES. IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON YOUR HOOKUPS. IF YOU LIKE USING BRAIDED YOU NEED TO PICK A MORE MODERATE ACTION ROD, WITH A LITTLE EXTRA LENGTH, ITLL HELP WITH THE INITIAL LUNGE OF THE FISH ON, THE HOOKS WILL STAY BURIED AND NOT WANT TO TEAR OUT. I KNOW A VERY GOOD PLUG FISHERMAN THAT USES TEN FOOT,MED LIGHT RODS WHILE HOTSHOTTING WITH BRAIDED, HE LOSES FEW FISH. IF DONT WANT TO CHANGE RODS THEN CHANGE LINES, YOULL HOOK UP AND LAND FISH AGAIN AND THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT. GOOD LUCK.

[Hooker]

Cully,

I would suggest adding a #7 barrel swivel to the end of your mainline. From there, tie on 4'-8' of your favorite leader to your plug. This will reduce line twist and not reduce plug action.

Hooker

[greenbuttskunk]

oops, I thought this was a Hair Club For Men
bad experience. sorry!