Kapowsin Bears...what a joke! *DELETED*

HVACGuy · 05-09-2005, 05:32 PM

Post deleted by HVACGuy

billc_sbio · 05-09-2005, 06:56 PM

It would be "interesting" to see a history of hunter success of this particular hunt.

I've been in on a few of these "set up" controlled hunts too before.

I get the hunt, show up, contact the locals who say, "What animals?!! Oh there USED to be a few around, 10 years ago!"

"Fool me once"!

HVACGuy · 05-09-2005, 08:46 PM

Post deleted by HVACGuy

billc_sbio · 05-09-2005, 10:02 PM

I know nothing of this area.

But from similar, lumber company owned lands here in Oregon, when there's a serious tree stripping problem, special "Kill Permits" are issued and the companies engage their own trappers, who often set snares for this type of depredation.

The way I know this is I had a past aquaintance who was a houndsman and he worked for a big lumber outfit. He also trapped bears for some of the private lumber companies in the Coast Range as a sideline.

When the "bear problem" would get too severe, they'd call him into action. He actually preferred taking fellow hunters out hunting them behind his hounds, over snaring them. That's back when he could hunt bears with his hounds. His hounds are long gone now...sad!

Freighter Bait · 05-10-2005, 04:41 AM

HVACGuy
Sorry it turned out that way for you too.

Sounds exactly like what we found in the north unit. We were thinking about going back and trying again, soon. The old diehard in me.

The wife and I have gone to Capitol twice now. Found old and fresh damage and 1 fresh kill site. Much harder area to hunt with all the brush and recreation traffic, but sounds like odds are still much better. I agree, we are not being given the 'full story' on the damage control hunts.

Washington Hunter · 05-10-2005, 07:37 AM

You know, I thought it really odd they had the spring bear hunt in a unit that is primarily private timberland. In Capitol Forest it makes sense, since it is about 95% public land, and the DNR is not allowed to kill bears like the private timber companies do. I still haven't seen a bear up there, but I've seen plenty of sign. The bears are definitely there, but they're just about impossible to hunt without being able to use bait or dogs. My brother and I did run into a bunch of hound hunters...they had started a bear on some private timberland and ended up on state land (of course, how could they not?) They did have a depredation permit from the WDFW, the guy even showed it to me. I was kind of disappointed to have hounds up there chasing the bears all over in the same area I had been doing all my scouting and hunting.

There has been three bears killed so far, at least that I've heard of. That's out of 100 people, so that shows how difficult it is to even see a bear in that brushy country.

Snug 2 · 05-10-2005, 09:56 AM

Excuse me for a second. Could you tell me were the Kapowsin area is? I have never heard of it.

On Saturday I was hiking on Silver Star just north of Washugal and watched a very large bear for about 10 minutes feeding in a small clearing. It was great to see him/her and I sure wished I had a spring tag.

Andrew

Washington Hunter · 05-10-2005, 10:04 AM

Do you know where Mt. Rainier is? The Kapowsin unit is on the north and west sides of the national park.

HVACGuy · 05-10-2005, 04:55 PM

Post deleted by HVACGuy

Washington Hunter · 05-10-2005, 05:41 PM

No, that's not right. There is a reason the Kapowsin unit is a PLWMA (Private Land Wildlife Management Area.) Look in your 2004 Big Game regulations...you'll see in there that they refer to it as Rainier Timber Company Kapowsin Tree Farm.Take a look at this map: http://www.dnr.wa.gov/dataandmaps/maps/pdf/whole.pdf

You'll see a big chunk of state land to the southwest of Mt Rainier National Park, one is the Elbe Hills State Forest and the other is the Tahoma State Forest. If you look where the Kapowsin tree farm is you'll see nothing but white (which means it's private land.) I don't know who told you the state owns all that land, but they don't have a clue. And I'm not sure what you mean by "full access being given to others." Hunting in the Kapowsin PLWMA is allowed by permit only, which can be obtained either through a drawing or through a raffle. Look on pages 48 through 51 in the 2004 Big Game regulations.

HVACGuy · 05-10-2005, 09:25 PM

Post deleted by HVACGuy

Washington Hunter · 05-10-2005, 10:34 PM

You may be right about things changing as far as fee access in the Kapowsin unit (I don't know anything about that.) But, I can tell you without a doubt that it is not state owned land. The DNR manages their own land such as Capitol Forest and the Elbe Hills State Forest, and they would not have any private company managing state land. That's just not how the DNR works. Did you happen to look at the map I gave you a link for? That map shows all public lands in color, and the Kapowsin Tree Farm is in WHITE. That means it is private. Besides that, there is information available all over the internet that refers to it as the RAINIER TIMBER COMPANY'S TREE FARM. NOT THE WASHINGTON STATE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES. It was actually rather humorous reading your last post, as it is so far from the truth it's funny. I just want to be sure everybody reading this thread realizes that the Washington DNR does not own the Kapowsin Tree Farm and does not in any way have anything to do with the management of it, other than most likely enforcing timber practice regulations. The DNR does not charge an access fee to any of their lands. If they were going to do that then Capitol Forest would probably be one of the first to have access fees, but it does not.

HntnFsh · 05-11-2005, 06:13 PM

I have to agree with Washington hunter.
That outdoor link doesnt say a word about it being state owned land.
I think any forestry management work on state land as to be put out to qualified bidders.A call to any DNR office should be able to clear things up for you.
It wouldnt surprise me a bit if Champion decided to turn their land into fee access areas.We will probably be seeing a lot more of that.From all private property owners.

Freighter Bait · 05-11-2005, 07:49 PM

Turn it into fee access??

What does this mean? I don't see any access now that isn't by fee at Kapowsin!! Annual memberships (capped at 1000 members), raffles, access fees if drawn for any special hunts. Are you speculating the fees are going to be set where only the wealthy need apply?

Anyway, we're going for our money's worth and heading back this weekend to the north unit. If bear exists, we are determined to find them. :grin:
One big difference I did see between Kapowsin and Capitol. Litter is almost nonexistent, no evidence of destructive vandalism, no garbage dumps. It is disgusting in Capitol Forest.

Let's take care of it like we own it!! On this one point alone, I can't blame any private property owner from controlling how, where, when, and by whom their property is used.

riverswild · 05-13-2005, 06:42 AM

Kapowsin IS NOT state/trust land, but
Kapowsin IS loaded with bear, as well as Capitol Forest (which is trust land).
The problem is it is just so dang thick and brushy. Right now the bears are feeding on timber and everyday I go to CF I see new damage. I drove over 50 miles of road yesterday and saw new bear damage over the whole area.

To be successful on these westside spring hunts you have to key in on the food source, use a predator call and stay out of clearcuts. You may find one in a cut right now, but they will mostly be in the young timber and swamps. With the breeding season coming up you may catch a boar traveling to find sows and you may find last years young searching for territory of it's own, but most of the bears will be in the thick stuff.

This spring hunt is on a "trial" basis in the CF, but they may up the amount of permits in order to up the harvest. DNR wants more people in "damage" areas because this disrupts the bears feeding pattern and may make them leave the area to find other food sources. I have also been told by DNR that they may have spring hunts in more areas on the westside to curb bear damage.

I have heard rumors that DNR wants the F&G to allow hound hunting on DNR Trust Lands, but F&G (by law) has to give hunters the first crack. If the hunters cannot control the timber damage then F&G may be able to allow depredation permits on state land. What that means is that a few guys with hounds will be able to hunt state lands and kill as many bear as they can. You and I will not be able to use dogs or harvest bears that are run/treed by hounds. I feel that we should be able to have the same chances as the hound guys. I think that the hound/depredation hunters should be required to take a licensed hunter to harvest the animals.

There are a few private timber companies around/touching the CF that have been using hounds and depredation permits for years and those bear run right into CF land and they continue to damage timber there as well.

In my opinion, there is no way to control the damage without putting a real hurt on the bear population. I do not want to see the population shrink, but looking at it from the DNR's perspective, the bears are realy killing alot of trees.

HVACGuy · 05-13-2005, 08:54 AM

Kapowsin South is not loaded with bear! I would challenge anyone here to find .01% damage anywhere in the south Kapowsin unit. If you could find any damage at all, I'd be willing to go back and see it for myself. We put over a hundred miles on the truck and traversed EVERY reprod (5-20 year, not clearcut) unit we found (between 20 & 30 units)...never found even one scraped tree.

Doesn't matter who owns the land, Kapowsin will be inaccessable as of 2006. No argument needed...lets just see what happens. I've no intention of going back so have little to nothing to gain or loose. I started this post to inform those that do have interest in this area, that you stand to loose another resource to politics.

Whatever,

HVACGuy

riverswild · 05-14-2005, 07:12 AM

Just because you didn't find any peeled trees does not mean that there are no bears there. You need to find the "prefered" food source. Have you tried calling? I would set up on the boundary of unit they are feeding on. If you tried calling for bears I know you would have success in a short amount of time, as there are alot of bears there.
On this we will have to agree to disagree.

I agree with your posting this info for others who might apply. I disagree with Kapowsin charging a fee for damage hunts and would not apply for them because of it.

scooby · 05-15-2005, 08:18 PM

Never thought of a Predator call for them. A unit I hunt that has alot of bear, see sign all over the place, but haven't seen them out. Would the Predator call work in the summer/fall season as well?

Does anyone know of any good sources for information on black bear? Been tryin to figure out where they go and how to approach them for this upcoming season.

riverswild · 05-16-2005, 06:57 AM

Yes, calls will work any time of the year. You have to be mindfull of the preffered foods or habitat pertaining to the time of year for best results.

scooby · 05-16-2005, 03:20 PM

Thanks. that is what I am trying to figure out. preferred foods and habitat for the time of year (Aug-Oct). most of the sign and the couple of bruins I have seen were in the thick stuff.

Branden · 05-16-2005, 07:05 PM

I have hunted the south unit forever and there are a lot of bears. There was a 350 pound boar shot on the Sunday after opening day in the south unit and my buddy just saw a smaller bear in there last weekend. I would hunt up off the 8 road and drive it until iturns into the 3113 and drive that until I hit camp seven then turn around and drive right back through there. We shoot a lot of bear in there but this time of year it is really hard cause they are in the trees. As soon as the fawns start dropping I would use a predator call. We shoot bears from the 0-100 all the way up to the 32. If you would like more info just ask. Branden

Freighter Bait · 05-16-2005, 09:55 PM

I have made 2 trips each to Kapowsin and Capitol Forest. This weekend in the north unit of Kapowsin. Managed to find fresh sign, including tracks.

Even one fresh stripped tree

We did try calling with no luck. Most sign was found in the thick brushy areas. Tough stuff to hunt. One month left to keep trying.

Anybody heard of any killed in the north unit?

riverswild · 05-17-2005, 07:19 AM

What part of the Capitol Peak unit did you hunt?
Calling works, it just takes time.
When you use a predator call you need to keep calling for at least an hour. I like two hour stands and no break in calling longer than 30 seconds or so. What a cardio workout!

Freighter Bait · 05-18-2005, 04:38 AM

RW
The wife has the Capitol tag. The area is new to us, so we have traveled a lot of it, trying to find good looking areas to hunt. The best sign we found was south of Sherman Valley Camp, and where we found a kill site

Have spent time on both the A line and C line. Are we on the right track?

Forgot the preditor call on the last trip :blush:

riverswild · 05-18-2005, 07:33 AM

Yes, I think you are on the right track. Use the damage map in conjunction with a Cap Forest map and find the thick & nasty areas, usually off spurs or at the end of blocked roads.
Remember the predator call and use your ears. Bears can be very noisy or very quiet.