MC or Willamette Reports

fishaplenty · 05-05-2005, 06:50 AM

I am taking some people fishing for springers on saturday that bought a trip in an auction. I'm trying to decide where to take them. Any reports, PM's would be appreciated.

fishaplenty · 05-05-2005, 03:20 PM

ttt

5-Cents · 05-05-2005, 03:22 PM

MC is slow.

Chrome Bumper · 05-05-2005, 03:23 PM

Gilbert, Scappoose Bay or Catherdal. OC will be bumper boats

5-Cents · 05-05-2005, 03:30 PM

I'm gunna try for some shad Fri with the wife... halibut likes!

Riverliver · 05-05-2005, 03:55 PM

Shane
If you get to many drop some in my cooler in fron tof my house please :smile:
WiverWiver

coffee-n-rolls · 05-05-2005, 04:59 PM

Spent 9 hours on the MC by Sauvie Is. Bridge and not even

a driveby, today. Go Sturgeon fishing.

garyk · 05-05-2005, 05:00 PM

Fishaplenty...no need for PM as it's no secret...it's plenty crummy.

Just got a phone report.... a friend fished about 4 hours today down to low slack between Kelly Point and Willy/MC junction. He saw exactly 1 springer caught - close to Cathedral Park - and heard of no others.

I'd recomend bringing plenty of good snacks and maybe some shad darts on Saturday to keep your guests occupied.

Same ol' story -- "shoulda been here last year."

fishboys · 05-05-2005, 08:03 PM

Fish the good part of the tide for salmon,then try gators or shad or bass,are the crawdads going yet??? if so drop some traps, 5 cents didnt you do good the other day on the salmon with some hardware???there are plenty of options for you, ask them what they want to do,tell them we might not get a fish all day if we fish for springers but we should get some gators if we give it a go,just feel them out,if the tides are right you can fish both real well, good luck and just make sure they have a good time

Fish Hawk Adventures · 05-05-2005, 09:47 PM

I hope you are insured and bonded and coast guard certified. What you stated sounded like a guided trip.

Chrome Bumper · 05-06-2005, 10:23 AM

Sounds like a guy taking some freinds out who are supporting a non profit organization, like a church or scouts. You running a business there fish a plenty? The fishing is great, just no catching for salmon. BTW the sturgeon bite is off too, went out last night. :depressed:.

fishlipper · 05-06-2005, 11:21 AM

Are you kidding me dude! Sounds like someone won an auction trip that someone so graciously volunteered to use their boat to take some people out. Relax!!!

Tanner · 05-06-2005, 11:27 AM

I have done this for my Church. I donate a day on the water
and all the auction money goes to the Church. Basically it is just me volunteering my time and resources to the Church.

Fish Hawk Adventures · 05-06-2005, 07:36 PM

There is just alot of moonlighter guides out there, that feel that they do not need to uphold the laws that the state of Oregon has set for guides and charters. If there is money transfered for a fishing excursion, either to a non profit orginization, or an individual with out the proper license, it is illegal. End of discussion.

Right now there is a bootleg guide working the Channel in a white Alumawled that we are trying to put a sting on. It is not right for people to be guiding under the table. If the rest of us are making a living at this and we have standards and requirements such as insurance, and coast guard licensing that we have to meet, then why should a under the table guide be allowed?

Joe Schwab · 05-06-2005, 08:03 PM

Joe, You are way off base on this one. Charity trips are done all the time even with the big rendesvous.

If you don't get any compensation you are not guiding. End of story.

fishaplenty · 05-06-2005, 08:10 PM

No business at all. Just for charity. Talon sounds like an idiot. I do one charity trip a year. It costs me money to do this.

Chrome Bumper · 05-06-2005, 09:10 PM

Geez guys chill, fishing is supposed to be fun. I hope Talons is not an idiot, he is at least twice as smart me judgeing by the number of fish I have seen him boat. Might want to go to the lower channel, less traffic, less current, not much chance of dumping someone in the drink.

Fish Hawk Adventures · 05-06-2005, 09:22 PM

Sounds good Joe, I guess I am all wet, just been dealing with alot of regular bologna lately with under the table guides cutting everybodys throats. You have seen it before.

Fish a plenty, I never said anything degrading to you or called you any names, Why then call me an Idiot? I just said that I hope that you have all you paperwork together for what you are doing. Simple as that. If it is legal then fine, have a good day, and I hope you catch some fish. If it is not legal or questionable then please keep ot low key and not let the rest of the world know about it, or don't do it at all. That is all.

wack0 · 05-06-2005, 09:55 PM

Wow!!! I'm new to Ifish and this whole doaloge is disturbing. Some one here has a agenda that does not need to be let loose on a good soul that is trying to take some deserving folks out fishing. If Talons wants to carry on a diologe about his buisiness being undermined by amatures, then start a new thread on the subject and people that give a darn can chime in. Leave fishaplenty alone. I take buddies fishing all the time in my boat. They give me gas money. Hope I'm not breaking some Guide's ethic by doing that!
Let just exchange possitive information here and quite the attacks. I'll end how I started....WOW!

BCF · 05-06-2005, 10:18 PM

I don't want to make this a rip on Talon thread either. And illegal guiding is potentially dangerous and takes potential clients from their money source.

With that said Joe, do you apply this same sense of ethics when not fishing? Like when you hire a contractor or home repair guy? Do you make sure that all work around your home and property, cars etc...are performed by licensed individuals? Ever had a friend with a special skill help you out? This technically could be illegal also, if they weren't a contractor.

Something to think about. Good people helping other people out is not necessarily a bad thing that hurts your personal economy. Think before you nail somebody.

That illegal guide in the MC? I hope he gets what he deserves. LIke a Federal tax bill.

The world needs more volunteers.

BCF out

12 foot crawdad · 05-06-2005, 10:33 PM

free is cool some times...
i have never cought a salmon
i have never been out to sea
never been over the bar
without your own boat its kinda hard.
and very expensive to boot..
maybe that makes you better than me???
i know some of you guids think your better than anyone els..
when i get a larger boat i would be glad to take folks for free when ever i can

what is this
the one with the most cash. catches the best fish???
that kinda sucks ... dont you think??

SKP · 05-07-2005, 06:57 AM

fishaplenty,

Talons is NOT an idiot. In fact he has offered up FREE seat on his boat to a kid I know that had leukemia and his family. You don't think that would cost Joe money to take a family fishing for free?

Rather, Joe Salvey is a man of respect and ethics!!!

SKP

FishinMission · 05-07-2005, 07:05 AM

This quote from the Oregon State Marine Board's website..

"Persons accepting fees for providing outdoor recreational activities must be registered as outfitter/guides with the Oregon State Marine Board. They must show proof of first aid training and insurance coverage. In addition, they must sign an affidavit that all their employees have had first aid training and are covered under their insurance. This has been Oregon law since 1984. Outfitter/guides operating motorboats on federally navigable waters must also have a valid Coast Guard operators' license.

Outfitter/guides who use boats are required to display identifying decals on their boats. On a boat with a motor, this decal shows the number of passengers the outfitter/guide is insured to carry. If operating on federally navigable waters, the decal also identifies the type of Coast Guard operator's license and waters where the outfitter/guide can legally operate."

Now.....I guess if you "donate" a trip....you're accepting a fee for your trip, but donating it to a cause.

Not sure of the legality of this myself, but it appears it could lead to trouble.

Talons is right about alot of illegal guides operating "out there". Any way you look at it, those illegal guides are breaking the law, and taking away from those that have taken the steps and spent the money to become legal, and operate a legitimate business.

My 02.

Mark

KZ4LIFE · 05-07-2005, 07:19 AM

I think you should ask Talon's to volunteer his services for your cause and that would solve everything. With all of the Publicity he's been getting lately you might even be able to get it on T.V. The biggest problem is that most fisherman remember the Obnoxious Guide that tried to Hog the Hole or Crowd them out. There are alot of very good Guides out there and Joe's

a good guy. He just Bark's

now and then. Good luck and thanks for helping a good cause. Just what was the cause? PM if you want I may be able to Contribute.

Salmonator · 05-07-2005, 07:37 AM

Quote:

without your own boat its kinda hard.
and very expensive to boot..

Um... me thinks ya got that one backwards!

FlyingAce · 05-07-2005, 07:48 AM

So what you are telling me is if I take a couple of good friends out and they give me money for bait and gas that I should have a coast guard license and be bonded and insured. I would say that about 80% of the boats on the water are moonlighting as guides.

5-Cents · 05-07-2005, 08:00 AM

I think there is a difference between sharing gas expenses and accepting a fee for services dont you?

Joe (Tallons) is right about illegal guides. We cant have that crud going on. I dont know what kind of business you are in but reverse the roles. How would you like someone competing against you with no or little overhead. They would be able to charge less thereby putting the guy that is trying to make it leagaly out of business. Not only that but these guys are putting the lives of the people they take out in danger by not having the proper training. When someone hires a guide they usually dont know shineola about the guy other than maybe a good word from a buddy. Would you want your kid/wife jumping on a boat with a guy that was not licensed and certified by the Coast Guard? Problem is you just dont know the guy dosent know what he's doing to its too late... not a situation you should want to expose anyone to if you were thinking straight!

bob'r down · 05-07-2005, 08:46 AM

People, People, people!!!

I normally do not chip in on a post like this but it is getting rediculous. This started out as a simple request for information to get some guests who donated to a good cause to have a good time and hopefully get into some fish.

A charity event for a school or church to offer up a boat ride with some fishing poles out does not constitute payment for guiding services. (HE is not getting paid. period!!) and even if it is questionable, he is not pinging on anyones guiding service. With all the fund raisers required nowadays to get any money for anything, I respect someone who will put out his time and money to help out.

If he is asking for help to locate fish he is OBVIOUSLY not a guide.

Joe: (Talons) you are a great guy that I have learned good info from by way of Ifish and seminars. This post does not do you justice. If you have a problem with illeagel guides (and I do also

) start another thread. We will all try to help out in that respect.

Everyone else, let's all just get along.

Have a great day and tite lines to all

Bob

Pirate · 05-07-2005, 11:09 AM

I don't support illegal guiding, but it begs the question. If I take a couple buddies fishing on my boat and they chip in $10 or $20 bucks for gas, bait and launch fees, am I illegally guiding and in jeopardy of being pinched?

SalmonSeason · 05-07-2005, 11:46 AM

As for a report it's been slow and my family and friends that I take LEGALLY have been able to grind out a couple spinners work cut plug has been working putting both together has worked too

I will POST a new thread in response to TALONS//Fish Hawk Guide Service and his comments

SKP · 05-07-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

I don't support illegal guiding, but it begs the question. If I take a couple buddies fishing on my boat and they chip in $10 or $20 bucks for gas, bait and launch fees, am I illegally guiding and in jeopardy of being pinched?

No, you are not illegally guiding. If they chip in $10 or $20 to Chevron, Fisherman's, or Washington County for the boat launch fee, they are not paying you, even if it is after they purchased the gas or bait.

If I chip in $5 for a friend to take me across town, is he an illegal cab driver? Heaven's no, they are just good friends!!!

Good post, Pirate!

SKP

Jennie@ifish · 05-07-2005, 03:27 PM

and SS? The MC has been pretty good from the reports I have gotten. :smile:
Not very many boats and almost everyone had a fish last I heard.

Jen

05-07-2005, 04:38 PM

White hot at OC and in the Columbia too.

No one ever gives me any money for anything Joe, even if they offer it. I was going fishing anyway and it does not cost me one cent more to take my friends fishing.

West Linn Wader · 05-07-2005, 05:08 PM

Gotta be an attorney on iFish somewhere! I'm certainly not one but I'd guess that as long as the boat owner never receives money (it goes straight from guests to a charity, etc.) that would be different from accepting money for services but it would be interesting to know if that's true.

Fishin Magician · 05-07-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

There is just alot of moonlighter guides out there, that feel that they do not need to uphold the laws that the state of Oregon has set for guides and charters. If there is money transfered for a fishing excursion, either to a non profit orginization, or an individual with out the proper license, it is illegal. End of discussion.

Incorrect Joe.....Sorry but you can donate your time and boat for a charity. As for a bootleg guides , there are bootleggers in every profession..... They get thier due in time, what angers me more is the licensed guys who are offering 75.00-100.00 trips........I know my costs and that barely covers them......Take down the boat #s and turn them in if it is grinding ya up ...... BTW, I saw your boat the other day in Scappoose....Nice Ride.

John

Salmonator · 05-07-2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

what angers me more is the licensed guys who are offering 75.00-100.00 trips........I know my costs and that barely covers them......

6 years ago I was offering trips for $65 a head. I was starting out fresh and had no choice. A guy has to start somewhere. And you are right, that doesn't cover squat for costs but if someone is fully licensed then that is their business. Just like it's Arco's business to charge 5 cents per gallon less than the station right next store. However you get what you pay for, in my case people were paying for a guide with little experience. I had one guide try to go off on me about my rates explaining to me that all the poles on his boat cost $400 blah, blah, blah. I couldn't do anything but laugh...

As far as taking compensation for the days costs, it wasn't too long ago (I think 7 or 8 years) that it was indeed illegal to accept ANY money from people on your boat. That rule has changed, the marine officer in the portland testing office read it to me while I was up getting my 6-pack license.

crabbait · 05-07-2005, 08:57 PM

Thanks, Salmonator.

I think that about sums this one up...and everything I have heard about the MC and Willamette has been slow.

Chrome Bumper · 05-08-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Gotta be an attorney on iFish somewhere! I'm certainly not one but I'd guess that as long as the boat owner never receives money (it goes straight from guests to a charity, etc.) that would be different from accepting money for services but it would be interesting to know if that's true.

I noticed a few guys (gals?) mention they were attorneys. Probably all to smart to get in this cat fight. :lurk:

Jennie@ifish · 05-08-2005, 02:58 PM

You must be talking to the wrong guys then, Crabby. :smile:
Bill's friends are doing really well. Of course, they are old timers and know what they are doing.
OWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. :smile:
No, but in all seriousness, it does seem like the ones who have been fishing for years get alot of fish!

Jen

FishinMission · 05-08-2005, 04:51 PM

Slow one day...good the next..or vice versa.

2 on Wednesday..."skunkola" on Thursday... trollin Spanky's.

Whoda thunk? :shocked:

Mark

Joe Schwab · 05-08-2005, 05:08 PM

Have you ever seen two attorneys who can agree on anything? No offense to attorneys out there but it's the truth.

No, let's not get attorneys involved. If you want an answer, call the Marine Board or the Coast Guard.

Fishin Magician, why does it anger you that some guides charge less than others? Have you ever gone out with one or two customers? Doesn't that change your rate for the boat?

Maybe some of those guides that can and do charge $185 a day don't like the guy charging $125 a day either. But you don't hear them griping about it. Set your price and don't worry about someone charging less. I used a flat boat rate in Alaska for 5 years and did just fine. Full boats are nice and the money is great but if you require a full boat top price every time you go out it ain't gonna happen.

Fishin Magician · 05-08-2005, 05:56 PM

In hindsight it really doesnt anger me.........I just feel that a guides time is worth the going rate....its very hard work. No biggie!!!!!

FishinMission · 05-08-2005, 06:25 PM

Any "sale" is better than NO "sale".

Mark

Fishin Magician · 05-08-2005, 06:26 PM

true dat!!!!! especially now.........

willametteriveroutlaw · 05-08-2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

free is cool some times...
i have never cought a salmon
i have never been out to sea
never been over the bar
without your own boat its kinda hard.
and very expensive to boot..
maybe that makes you better than me???
i know some of you guids think your better than anyone els..
when i get a larger boat i would be glad to take folks for free when ever i can

what is this
the one with the most cash. catches the best fish???
that kinda sucks ... dont you think??

But to get the most cash you have to work.

When you get a bigger boat you'll realize a bigger gas bill and all the other headaches, sounds like someone has guide envy.

pearl · 05-08-2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Any "sale" is better than NO "sale".

Can't agree.

How can you stay in business if you don't turn a profit

.

At some point you have to have enough confidence and belief in your product to command a competitive and profitable level. If you establish your cost of goods or the service you provide at a rock bottom level just to get work you will continue down a path of no profit. At that point you�re better off being a recreational fisherman. If you provide a quality fishing ( lots of variables apply here) experience for your clients they will spend the money with you and not balk at an addition $25 to $40 a day to meet market prices.

From what I have seen the market place dictates an average cost to fish with a guide between $150 and $175. At these costs I personally don't know a lot of rich guides but I do know some that enjoy their craft.

I do two or three detailed profit analysis in the beer industry every year and each time a brewer reduces price/cost to retail they gain immediate market share at below average profit gains and then have to raise price to the consumer to get those profits back and end up losing more market share then when they started because the consumer sees the thresh hold of the product at the lower retail that was established and they leave to buy another brand.

I can't fault a guy for trying to build his business from scratch but once you set a discount cost for your service it will be difficult to raise your rates to turn a profit in the future.

I don't mind paying a quality price if I get a quality return and that doesn't always mean you have to have fish in the box. I can't imagine fishing with a guide because he is the cheapest in town. I want to fish with the best.

Just my line of thinking

but then again it's easy for me to be critical since I don't guide for a living. I sell beer

Pearl

Flatfish · 05-08-2005, 07:01 PM

I do not have any cash, but I have a boat!

It aint how much money one spends. It is how much of an intelligent effort one makes.

Sometimes, effort costs money. Most hobbies do.

Mark and the dog.

Phillip Smesrud · 05-08-2005, 09:48 PM

Update to my post: Well, the law used to be clear but it looks like there has been a recent change.

http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/jfh/p...AQ/node41.html

"The new law has relaxed the prior strict treatment of situations were a guest provided food or chipped in for expenses. Previous law treated such such guests as passengers, requiring operator licenses and possibly vessel inspection.

Under the new law a passenger for hire is is a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, agent or any other persons having an interest in the vessel.

Consideration is an economic benefit, inducement, right or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage or other supplies. "

So, looks like bringing your buddies lunch and chipping in for gas is OK. Donating trips to auctions looks like it requires a coast guard license because consideration was contributed at the auction for passage on the boat.

smez

Original post down here:
The orange book I used to study for the coast guard test said that as far as the coast guard is concerned you cannot accept gas money, gas, beer, bananas, lunch, bait, launch fees or anything from guests without a coast guard license. The wording they used was not fee, money etc. it was "for hire." If you receive ANY compensation from guests then you fall under their "for hire" jurisdiction and rules which means if you are operating a boat under power you have to have a "Coast Guard License." Oregon requires you to have a guide/outfitter license as well to receive compensation. I think there's a lot of laws like this and getting the ticket seems to be the way that most people learn about a particular law. Here's the facts:

"As with other modes of transportation, many years ago the U.S. Congress insisted that passengers on vessels be afforded the same level of protection as those using other forms of public conveyance. In addition to requiring vessel operators to have the skills and knowledge necessary for safe operation (as demonstrated in order to obtain a license), they also wanted to reduce the threat of vessel casualties caused by operators under the influence of illegal drugs or alcohol. To meet those goals, they passed legislation requiring licenses and drug testing- The Coast Guard is the primary federal agency with the responsibility to enforce those regulations on vessels.

OK, I know I need a license if I carry passengers for hire, what about my competition? Suppose they decide to continue operating illegally?

The Coast Guard will work with them to ensure that they understand the regulations. If they continue to operate illegally, they will be operating in violation of federal law and will be subject to enforcement actions, including the assessment of civil penalties up $10,000 for each day of violation."

However, this is only on Federally navigable waters under Coast Guard jurisdiction so feel free to offer gas money, bananas and beer to your buddy when he takes you drift fishing on the Wilson.

smez

Chrome Bumper · 05-09-2005, 07:36 AM

MC Sunday.....The few salmon fishers came up pretty empty.

Sturgeon shaker C&R was good Sunday pm, hungry after the feed fest they got from fishermen Saturday I geuss. Reckon they will be actively following the warming waters down to the estuary.

Shad slow but should be improving.

05-09-2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

trollin Spanky's. Whoda thunk? :shocked: Mark

Go figure.

FishinMission · 05-09-2005, 11:10 AM

Pearl..my last post you quoted didn't mention anything about reduced rates and wasn't meant to imply that either. Perhaps I shoulda been more clear.

If I have an opportunity to take just one individual out, as opposed to none...I will take the one. That doesn't mean that the one individual will get a reduced rate. In fact..he/she will have a better opportunity to get a fish(being eclusive in hand-off opportunities).

I have picked up customers who have been refused by other guides because they wouldn't book 3-5 other folks.

I can sit at home and not make any money guiding, or I can take one(or more) individual(s) out, show them a good time and hopefully
get repeat clients, who in turn may refer me to others., or bring others along during future trips.

It's called "Building a Business". If I turn away ANY customers, I'm not building my business.

Understand where I'm coming from?

Mark

pearl · 05-09-2005, 12:50 PM

Mark,

I get it. I did misunderstand what you were saying. I fully agree with your clarification. Thats how business is built. One person at a time and word of mouth. I wouldn't turn down a single either. Heck the guy might be the president of a large corporation and book multiple days with multiple people on board in the future.

I don't envy you or Fishin Magician or any other guide that is starting a business and having to build it from the ground up. As much as I like to fish and the amount of time I spend on the water I still don't think it would be a line of work that I want to do as my source of income. It takes a special breed of cat to do it day in and day out. I'm sure both of you will succeed in your goal to provide quality trips with the personal touches that it takes to make it pan out.

Keep up the good work guys

pearl

FishinMission · 05-09-2005, 01:30 PM

No problem Steve....I was a bit unclear!

Go "Budweiser" lures!

Mark

05-09-2005, 01:46 PM

Kiirin or Sapporo please. :grin:

FishinMission · 05-09-2005, 02:10 PM

******..I didn't know you was a beer drinker!

Mark

05-09-2005, 03:09 PM

Once upon a time. Grew up in Japan and never drank beer in the Navy.

Diabetes has shut all beers down. :depressed:

Remember the one beer I had in your boat and then almost 911 at OC that time?

Rick

FishinMission · 05-09-2005, 03:11 PM

Yeah..but that musta been a "Bud"....

Mark