Wisconsin Unlimited hunting

[Bait O' Eggs]

I was talking to my brother-in-law last night who lives in Miwaukee Wisconsin area. He told me they are having a huge problem with a deer wasting disease. It didnt sound good, as the deer are all losing their hair and some other nasty sounding type stuff. Their is an area about 100 miles from his house that the state wants to kill all the deer. He said they estimated 25,000 deer in the area. You can go get unlimited permits to kill deer. Go shoot them and bring the deer back to the authorities that regulate the tags and turn them in.

He didnt think you could keep any of the deer, he thought it all had to be turned in. Then he said they cut off the head and kept it. He was not up for hunting these deer and didnt have any desire to go shoot them and hadnt checked the regs out to close.

If we had the opportunity to go hunt unlimited deer here I think I would be all over it. Keeping meat is great, but it is all about the hunt for me.

[WildHawg]

"Team Minimal Impact"--sounds like your lookin' for maximum impact to me.
As for the quote:
"If we had the opportunity to go hunt unlimited deer here I think I would be all over it. Keeping meat is great, but it is all about the hunt for me"
Yeah, I guess, if your idea of a great hunt is unlimited killing of diseased and weakened animals. Real sporting. As for me, I feel sorry for the poor ba$tards.
I personally enjoy the hunt because of the meat it brings me and my family. I do not "enjoy" the kill like you must. It is just a component of feeding my pack. The thrill of the actual hunt is indeed awesome, and probably the second most important reason I hunt. I can get the same rush with a camera if all I want to do is get within killing range (ie "all about the hunt"). Without the meat component, slaughtering deer seems anything but sporting.
I am not a biologist, but I question the wisdom, and the possibility, of killing all the deer in an area. Wisconsin is real brushy--there just aint no way. Besides, history has a way of repating itself, and this virus may be a cyclical thing which will run its course without killing all the deer.
It just doesn't seem right to want to slaughter the last of anything BOE, even if they are "diseased".

[Bait O' Eggs]

We've never hunted together though our roots come from the same area. If you knew me better you would not think I meant that the way you took it.

I know you have saved preference points from the dawn of time it seems to get a good hunt, and why do you want to go hunt trout creek? so you can bag a nice buck. I believe the tag you drew would allow you to take any buck, yet you wont just shoot the first one along for the meat. You make a good point about hunting disease animals and it may not be as much fun as I think it would be if they just stood there all crippled up. I bow hunt elk when I cant draw a decent rifle tag and wont shoot a cow because it isnt my style. I will not look down on those that go hunt does and cows but I never have and wont shoot them myself. There are several biologist that will tell you we need to shoot several does and cows to keep the bull/cow ratio where the animals are reproducing effeciently. I have always felt if there are not enough bulls/bucks in an area we need to implement methods to make sure there is a sufficient sperm count in the area, whether that is 3 point or better, or spike only on what ever gets to the correct ratio. Killing many of the cows/does might get the ratio right, but a reduced herd count below the carrying capacity is not my idea of correct management.

I bought a bow tag this year so I can go east and try and bag a big bull. I was unsuccessful on a rifle tag draw and it was my only option to get east and chase a trophy.

When I heard about the unlimited number of tags, I pictured myself going there and hunting big white tail bucks. Probably not the intent of the hunt, but it is how I would participate in it.

With my luck I would get there and find animals that were so screwed up, it wouldnt even be hunting, more like shooting milk cows in the parlor. :depressed:

I feel sorry for the animals also, I dont know much about this wasting disease and how it affects them.

I really enjoy hunting and when I fill my tag the video camera comes out and I make amature videos of those still hunting in the party. I got some great footage of my buddy stalking and shooting at a big mulie last year, to bad he dont shoot as well as me The hunt, the stalk, the stategy, the attention to detail and a few other things is what makes a hunt. The actual shooting is kind of a sad moment, as something so majestic has to die.

If it is just about the meat for anybody, they should go to the store and buy it. It is far cheaper for game animals or fish.

Wildhawg - I wish you all the luck on your buck hunt of a lifetime.

Peace

[ 07-22-2002, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[WildHawg]

Guess I misjudged you BOE. Sounds like we have a lot in common. I bowhunt myself (how do you think I saved up all those stinkin' pref. pts.?), and enjoy employing all the necessary skills to get right on top of elk and deer. It is all about the hunt in reality (though I still wouldn't do it if it weren't for the meat I no longer will harvest a doe with an antlerless tag, and have never harvested a cow (though I've passed up many chances). I have killed 2 bulls with my bow though in 6 years of trying. Even though we love the meat, I'd rather eat our own beef than kill reproducing animals. Just doesn't make sense to me when numbers (at least on deer) are down so low now.
As for the Trout Creek tag, of course you're right--I will be attempting to harvest the biggest, healthiest, best representative of a mule deer buck I can find. That in and of itself does seem kind of contrary to good management practice--the difference is there are only 56 tags for hundreds of square miles of country. It's a needle in a haystack, not a Dutch Belt in a milking parlor As for the meat, when mama cans it with pepper, onions, and garlic straight out of the garden, it tastes just like a tender little spike :tongue:
Sorry for my diatribe--I have a hard time stomaching folks who are bloodthirsty. We all meet them out in the woods bragging about their 600 yard running shots, and how they got everybody in the parties critters. They're the kind of folks who judge their season by how many critters they kill or wound, not the quality of their hunts. Sounds like I'd enjoy hunting with you. Good luck to you too.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Wildhawg - I knew we would have the same philosophies on hunting. I have read your post and you express yourself better than most of us. Maybe that is part of that being an educated redneck To bad you went to school about 50 miles to far south (go beavs)

I started a thread here when the hunting board first started called something like "who is a horn hunter" and got raked over the coals as I remember. I am a horn hunter and dont mind saying so. There are plenty of doe and cow hunters that either felt I was trying to pass on some sort of better than you attitude or what ever, but the thread got under a lot of peoples skin. It wasnt meant way, but I learned my lesson then about such topics in a public forum and figured when I made my post last night I would catch some flack from somebody who does enjoy harvesting a cow/doe.

I personally wish elk hunting was 6 point or better. There would be a few years of tough hunting but after that we could all bag nice big bulls, and the bulls out there would have the maturity to get the job done when they get mounted up. I spent some time last year in the Sattle mountain unit which is 3 point or better and was surprised at all the branched bulls I saw. I have never been a fan of a bunch of spike elk running around breeding their momma because no bigger bulls are in the area to run them off.

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

BoE,

I was one of your "rakers" as I support doe hunting. Your posts were taken as anti-doe hunting. A balance needs to be maintained in deer ratios and without a doe harvest things get out of whack. Besides... some hunter prefer just to shoot a deer and don't care if it has horns, or if it does, how big they are.

If I'm a rifle hunting, I'm definitely after bucks and ones big enough to put on the wall. If I'm twanging... different story. I do shoot at does as I did last year when all I had was a recurve with no sights. This year I have a replacement compound for the one I broke last year and think I'll upgrade my targets. I plan on targetting this one bunch of whitetail bucks.

Now... if you want to shoot a truckload of deer in Wisconsin to help out with the CWD.... have at it and tell me how it went afterwards. I understand only a few are badly infected... but to remove the chance of it spreading they want to clear out a bunch of deer. If it was me and I went back, I'd take a bunch of rifles I don't normally use and test them out, ones like a .30/40 Krag, a .375 Winchester with lead bullets, a .30/30 with lead slugs also, and others that just gather dust in my closet.

[ 07-23-2002, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Zen Leecher aka Bill W ]

[WildHawg]

Ahhh, Zen? Maybe you should stick to the fishin' board. I don't know what you've been hunting with, but you posted:
"If it was me and I went back, I'd take a bunch of rifles I don't normally use and test them out, ones like a .30/40 Krag, a .375 Winchester with lead bullets, a .30/30 with lead slugs also, and others that just gather dust in my closet." [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]
Ok.......most of us would opt for lead bullets and "slugs" as well. Are you one of them sports who shoot 'em with beanbags, stuns 'em, and then slits their throats?!? Take it from me, the lead is far more efficient, and much less dangerous.
As for doe slaying--you wrote:
A balance needs to be maintained in deer ratios and without a doe harvest things get out of whack."
Yes, your statement is true--if you live on the East Coast. Other than a few "residential" herds whose numbers are unnaturally high, tell me ONE area where Buck to doe ratios are so skewed as to justify the taking of the brood stock so a few people can eat some venison.
Oregon, like the rest of the West, is in a tailspin in terms of deer numbers. ODFW severely restricted the number of doe tags this year due to low Blacktail numbers in the west, and Muley's still haven't recovered fron the 93 winter. Couple this info with the news of serious diseases in our deer herds and I think the picture is clear--leave the does alone--there just plain isn't enough of them.

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

Wild Hog,

A little lesson in geography might help. Wisconsin, for all practical purposes is back east. Their problem is with whitetails which have a tendency to breed like rats. Animals that are overcrowded are prone to diseases. That's why CWD has a hotspot area there.

Oregon, last time I checked had mostly mule deer and black tails, depending which side of the Cascades one was on. Besides.. one is just a subspecies of the other. Mule deer have another problem, the common name for it is "blue tongue". It's contagious and really crops the herds when mule deer populations are high. I've seen the results of Blue Tongue twice over in Montana. Makes for slim hunting the next couple of years after it affects an area.

Now, if you've never had the "itch" to make your own bullets and hunt with them, you'd never understand. That's what I meant by "slugs" and "lead bullets". If a hunter does use them, one of the characteristics is they don't expand like jacketet bullets and also the velocities are much lower. If a hunter does use them he has to be very precise in where they're placed and also the path thru the deer has to be considered. It's normally a different type of hunter who tries "slugs".

I'll let you go back to picking on BoE. Maybe you should take the "needle" off your discussions and consider what others are saying. You might get a few tips there, unless you really do have all the answers.

Oh, and that .30/40 Krag... it was my first deer rifle back in 1960. Whitetails back in Pennsylvania.

Meanwhile, back to the fishing board.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Now that I have gone and stirred the pot again (although not on purpose) I figured I should look into CWD since I know pretty much nothing about it.

I found a blurb in the Oregon Hunting synopsis on page 27. There is a ton of info on the web. The following link seems to give a nice short statement about the disease.

CWD link

From what I can tell, these deer have a death sentence anyway as it looks like they all die within a few months or a year within showing signs of having the disease.

Kind of scares me that the world health organization says their is no evidence that this disease can be spread to humans yet suggest not eating any animal with the disease. Sounds like something that needs more research done on it. I saw some comparison between this CWD and mad cow disease.

The link just happens to be a Wisconsin oriented link that shows the eradication zone for deer.

After shooting one of these animals I am not sure I would want to be handling it.

I am glad Oregon Washington and Idaho show no signs of this disease yet. I did find an article that listed Montana as having it.

I would not be surprised to hear this is a shotgun and slug only hunt for firearms. I know where my brotherinlaw does hunt, he packs a 12 gauge because it is the only style of of gun he is allowed to hunt with.

[bait boy]

Washington IS showing some signs of this disease but due to the rather nomadic nature of blacktails and mule deer the spread is not as bad.

This coupled with the strange hair loss disease which I've witnessed makes for a very nasty animal indeed.

The meat is poor and the deer is just covered with lice and ticks. just plain grossed me out but I still did the "ethical thing" and took what I killed home and tried to eat it. It was not inedible but would really turn you off from eating deer for a while.

[ 07-24-2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: bait boy ]

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

BoE,

<back from the fishing page> I've read some on the CWD problem in Wisconsin. I'm on the duckhunter refugeforum and it's had a couple of listings on the big game page.

Looks like the problem is a small number of deer are showing the problem, but the state wants to clear out a much larger area for containment to make sure the disease doesn't spread. Some have estimated the diseased deer to be lower than 2% of the total population in that area. the percentage might even be smaller, less than 1 percent. But the state still wants to "sterilize" that area.

I wouldn't complain too much about "stirring things up" as I'm still chuckling when I think of that lab with the shaved top and painted sides. I went fishing in eastern WA over the 4th and it was hot. I got a lab I picked up from Capin' Dan and she got hot over there. I thought of trimming her coat down to help her with the heat... and the moment I had that idea, I thought of your lab story.

I should return to the fishing page .... oh, that walleye trip to eastern WA was so fun that we're getting a 17' Lund with a 90 Johnson so we can do it again.

yours in fishing/hunting/clay busting and story telling,

zl

[Bait O' Eggs]

Zen - glad your back even if we dont agree on everything, debating things with people of different views does broaden our view on topics. :smile:

I did see where they only had like either 3 or 4 confirmed cases of CWD in this area of the sampling they did. Which of course would make for some good hunting since you wouldnt probably run across a sick critter and would be hunting some heathy deer (bucks in my case )

An update on the painted and shaved dog you may enjoy. My brother stopped at a conveinent store a few months ago to get a cold drink and had his lab in the front seat with him. Being hot he left the window down. While he is in the store he sees a guy checking out his truck and he has a pair of Swarovski binoculars on his dash. The low life reaches in the window and picks up the binos when the dog bit him on the hand. My brother was up to full speed thinking he was about to lose his binos, not aware the dog bit him. When my brother gets to the truck a few seconds later and confronts the guy the guy is standing there complaining that the dog just bit him. My brother informed him that he saw him reaching for his binos and would be lucky if he didnt get his ass kicked right there in the parking lot for attemted theft. The guy apologized for the trouble and left. I got a good laugh out of the story as my brother is a quality story teller, but I dont doubt the story didnt happen. I never saw the dog painted as it was removed before I got down to see him but did see it with the shaved back as the hair grew back slow. A lab is one of the last dogs I would expect to bite somebody.

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

BoE,

I never left the board, it's just that I didn't have much to say, so would log on, read the current posts... and log off, without saying anything. I usually check it at least 4 days out of the week.

My lab barks at strangers when they come to the front door. It's about the only time she does bark. I don't know what it would take to make her bite someone. A lab that would be protective of the inside of the truck isn't all that bad. I'd give him/her a gold star (or a steak bone) for that bite.

I could post about the 10 lb catfish I caught over the 4th. Caught it while fishing in the shallows for sunfish. Or could post about the 70 jillion shotgun shells I've shot trying to keep my eye for the upcoming dove season. It seems like 70 jillion... but probably is closer to about 1,500 - 2,000. Shot in 3 shoots so far, besides all the practice rounds. One was a combo trap shoot, one was a straight skeet shoot, and the other was a mixture of 16 yard trap, skeet, continental trap, and doubles trap. One I placed somewhere in the top third, the next in the bottom half somewhere... and the other... ouch... dead last!! I thought I was a better skeet shooter than that. It was an off day for me and the others... they were regular skeet s*******.

[Bait O' Eggs]

That is a lot of shooting Zen. I hope you wear some ear protection, I spent to many years thinking wimps wore ear plugs. Now when target practicing I usually tuck that pride away and put on some muffs or my ears ring for a few days. Tenitis (sp) would not be a fun thing to have permanently.

My brother told me he went back in the convenient store and bought his dog a big greasy hot dog out of the deli case for that bite. :tongue:

[bigshark]

HI Zen L, Hi to you too BOE

I'm glad you guys are alive and hope you have both had good summers. I have missed the jabber on the hunting board and I'm hoping we have more company than ever this fall and winter.
Hate to bring up bad news but the herd of deer at Crooked River Ranch has this hair loss thing and then hemorhage to death. Last I heard anything they planned to destroy the entire herd. This info was on cable news about 6 or so weeks ago.

Bob

[Bait O' Eggs]

I found this on the web this morning. I sure hope they prove the deaths were not associated with eating infected meat.

Wisconsin Hunters' Deaths Checked for Link to Deer
Reuters
Jul 31 2002 5:41PM

MADISON, Wis. (Reuters) - The deaths of three Wisconsin hunters in the 1990s who shared a taste for wild game are being investigated for any connection to a fatal brain disease afflicting the state's deer herd, health authorities said on Wednesday.
Scientists from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta have agreed to help Wisconsin investigate the deaths, two of which were from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, a rare disorder that has been tied in Europe to eating meat from cattle infected with mad cow disease.

The other man died from Pick's disease, a more common brain disease.

The autopsy records of the three men, who all shared a love of the outdoors and ate wild game, are being reviewed by federal and state investigators, a spokesman for the Centers for Disease Control said.

Wisconsin and eight other U.S. states, mostly in the Great Plains and Rocky Mountain regions, have reported cases of chronic wasting disease in deer and elk herds, a similar ailment to mad cow disease, which is formally known as bovine spongiform encephalopathy. Believed caused by misshapen proteins called prions, the diseases create holes in the animal's brains and eventually kill them.

Chronic wasting disease has not been shown to infect humans or cattle, but the World Health Organization has advised against eating venison or any part of an animal showing signs of the disease. The warning has raised concerns about venison stored in home freezers across Wisconsin, a prime state for deer hunting that generates roughly $1.5 billion annually.

The state plans to eradicate the deer herd from an area where more than a dozen animals have tested positive for the disease, and then test the carcasses