Tilla / Cap'n Dan....

Lured In · 05-29-2002, 06:57 AM

Well our fresh off the shelf 7 week old female Choc Lab puppy arrived this weekend. So far things are going well. She has taken to her kennel training and we only got up once last night! :grin: I have introduced her to her collar and am letting her drag her leash around on occasion. The kids are keeping her busy and her and I go out for a few fun retrieves with a duck wing each day. If you don't mind I have a couple of questions. I have read "water dog" and "family dog" by Wolters.

1. Since we are going with kennel training, should we not leave her in the kitchen when we are gone most of the day or should we alway kennel her if we cannot be around?

2. When should I begin basic OB (Sit, Stay and Come) on the leash? Now or wait another week?

3. Wolter's refers to "distemper" a lot in his writings about pups. She has had her first two sets of shots and is due again for her third in another week. Is this something I really need to be concerned with or is it only if she is around lots of strange dogs?

4. I know this is common for lab puppies, but should I be concerend that she loves to chew on dirt, bark dust, fir cones...etc?

Any other thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated?

Tilla · 05-29-2002, 07:48 AM

Congratulations on the pup.
1. We keep them in their kennel during the day.

2. You can start on the basics at any time but remember they get to be just a pup for a few weeks. You can start demonstrating the basics training in a fun atmosphere with lots of praise and very short duration. Make sure everyone in the family understands what is going on and are consistent. 12 weeks is when you can be firmer with the dog. 16 weeks even more so.Just keep in mind that you are striving to give the command just once and that you are not asking the dog, but telling the dog.

3.Keep the pup from public areas and most other dogs until 12 weeks. Who knows what visited the front yard at night etc. Who knows what was tracked in on your shoes. I would be concerned. Distemper is not the only thing that can be picked up. Some people remove all shoes before entering the house for awhile. We had the "ick" hit a litter at home after we visited a Sauvie Island hunt test.

4. I don't know how to control the chewing, the organic stuff isn't too bad. But make sure your wifes earrings are put away

. Most vets will tell you that Labs seem to end up in their offices for swallowing things. Keep cloth (socks), rope toys, some loosely compressed chews away from the dog. Things like that can get caught in the throat. We try a whole compliment of toys to detract the dogs from things they should not be chewing. Tennis balls, Kongs, tightly compressed chew stuff is generally what we like.%0

Tilla · 05-29-2002, 07:50 AM

Congratulations on the pup.
1. We keep them in their kennel during the day.

2. You can start on the basics at any time but remember they get to be just a pup for a few weeks. You can start demonstrating the basics training in a fun atmosphere with lots of praise and very short duration. Make sure everyone in the family understands what is going on and are consistent. 12 weeks is when you can be firmer with the dog. 16 weeks even more so.Just keep in mind that you are striving to give the command just once and that you are not asking the dog, but telling the dog.

3.Keep the pup from public areas and most other dogs until 12 weeks. Who knows what visited the front yard at night etc. Who knows what was tracked in on your shoes. I would be concerned. Distemper is not the only thing that can be picked up. Some people remove all shoes before entering the house for awhile. We had the "ick" hit a litter at home after we visited a Sauvie Island hunt test.

4. I don't know how to control the chewing, the organic stuff isn't too bad. But make sure your wifes earrings are put away

. Most vets will tell you that Labs seem to end up in their offices for swallowing things. Keep cloth (socks), rope toys, some loosely compressed chews away from the dog. Things like that can get caught in the throat. We try a whole compliment of toys to detract the dogs from things they should not be chewing. Tennis balls, Kongs, tightly compressed chew stuff is generally what we like.

Take your time and enjoy each other, pups are about the coolest things in life!

OneLastCast · 05-29-2002, 12:31 PM

I agree with Labsforme.
I have both books and my standard is Training the Retriever by James Lamb Free. I think that is a great book. Unfortunately one of my labs discovered where I was getting my ideas from and chewed up the cover.
The 20 minutes of training a day (or was it ten?) always seemed to work and I started in on the basic commands right away.

OneLastCast

Labsforme · 05-29-2002, 01:26 PM

F-N-F The main beef is that he recommended the toe pull method of force fetching.With a really tough dog you can do a lot of damage.Ears heal a lot better.If you look at those that are winning trials and have a proven method that fits your style and dog then stick to that program.The book by Free
was before most people used hot collars.It is especially good for young dogs and pups.

Lured In · 05-29-2002, 01:52 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will see if I can find "Training the retriever" as i am most interested in educating myself. The more info I have the better I can watch and apply what I read. The Wolter's stuff was recommended, primarily as I understand, because you can't have a conversation regarding dog training without either agreeing or disagreeing with Wolters.

Thanks again and Tilla, let me know when you guys are going to be out at Vanc. Lake and I will see if I can make it out there.

Labsforme · 05-29-2002, 11:23 PM

Congrats.I try to stay away from the chewies that have
knuckles on the end,at least the small ones.They can(and will) chew the ends off first and swallow the knuckle part whole.Could be a nasty vet bill.I know this is probably opening a can of worms but I keep away from recommending anything Wolters has written.Lardy,Tri-tronics,an old book "Training
the Retriever" by James Lamb Free are good to start.
PS: Tilla,you have labs?I thought you had a new breed of flat-coated black Chessies :tongue:
Sorry I missed you at the hunt test.I gunned Friday at the Seniors.

[ 05-29-2002, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Labsforme ]

Fish-n-finn · 05-29-2002, 11:55 PM

Labs,

Can I ask why you recommend against the Wolters book. I am looking at getting another lab soon and was going to use his books again. But if there is something better I would like to know.

Lured In · 05-30-2002, 12:45 PM

Glen I will have to put that on my calendar and come check it out. Should I bring "her royal highness" as she sits upon her thrown of pillows in my living room? :grin:

Tilla · 05-30-2002, 11:48 PM

Wolters is a great book, easy to understand and gives you a nice timeline.
What it doesn't do is tell you what to do when it doesn't go as well as planned.
Training with experienced people helps you with the timing of the training ballet.
Jusk ask.
I got access to ducks and pheasants about the 8th.
Licensed AKC retriever hunt test June 8-9 St Louis Ponds, Woodburn Or ..see what these dogs do!!!!!!

Chukrchaser · 05-31-2002, 06:02 AM

Having had to do the Vet thing to retrieve an impassable sized chunk of chew toy---

There are several brands of chews that are made of a hardened corn starch -- Booda is the brand of one of them-- they are 100% digestable and shouldn't break-off into unmanagable chunks -- They are also flavored so you can rotate to prevent boredom.

As for the health issues-- Distemper is one-- but so are Kennel cough and Parvo-- The reason to wait at least 12 weeks is that the mothers passive immunity slows the antibody development of the vaccine -- so until the passive immunity is down enough to allow the vaccine to develop "fully", there may be a gap in the pup's immunity. ( that's why multiple shots-- one would do it if you knew when--)

crabbait · 05-31-2002, 09:08 PM

Wolters is fine for the first 20 weeks. He does not go into any detail after that.

Training Retrievers for Marshes and Meadows by Spencer is also a very good book. The tri-tronics book is one of the best. Large format and plenty of detailed instructions and pictures.

You can get any of these and a bunch more through Gun Dog magazine, available at Barnes and Noble.

Remember, you are training the dog all the time. Anything left within the dogs reach is a chew toy (not the dogs fault) if you want it, put it up.

Good luck and have fun. As long as you and the dog are having a good time you are probably not doing harm. If you lose your temper stop and put the dog up.

Tilla · 05-31-2002, 11:45 PM

Lured,
I am not sure which royal highness you are talking about, some of us married folk know what the right answer is to that

. These are public grounds and there are lots of dogs in much of the area. But I am sure you can find a remote pond or two for the 4 legged queen. If you show up ask for Glen or MaryJo, I am supposed to be judging Master B. We can arrange a bird for you.

Mr. Fisherman · 06-02-2002, 07:13 AM

Good info.

I also like The 10 minute Labrador. Don't remember the author right now but will post it later. It preaches the ear method.

It also covers all the basics and provides a good list of training aids.

Tilla, Can you tell me more about the trial? My pup is doing great and I would like to get her ready for one of these. I need some bird wings or a few birds if you know where to get them.

Thanks in advance,

Ray

bigshark · 06-02-2002, 12:06 PM

Lured In, I would like to share what happened at our home recently with our Shorthair. It is about what can happen if your not careful. Our shorthair had a normal day when suddenly she becme disorientated had severe tremors, and distanced herself out in the yard. She staggard and didn't act like the dog we know. When we took her to the all-night vet they said she was acting like a "compost dog." If they get into a compost pile to wallow the gases are very toxic. It turned out that ours had eaten some moldy cheese. I had put cheese down on a bench when I remembered I had not brought the garbage can back from the driveway for the weekly pick-up. The vet told us that mold of any kind, be it cheese or bread etc. is highly toxic to dogs and she was a classic case of "bad food".We could have lost her. He said they see it often. It was a 500 dollar mistake for me and another lesson learned the hard way. The dog is fine now. You may have known about mold and compost piles, but just in case I thought I would share this with the board. Before this experience I thought only chocolate, slug bait and salmon were the killers.

[ 06-02-2002, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: bigshark ]

Tilla · 06-03-2002, 12:16 PM

Mr. F,
This is a licensed AKC Hunt Test, which means its a pass/fail against a standard. It is open to registered retriever breeds, Std poodles (new thing),Irish water spaniels. Nova Scotia Tolling Ret. There are plenty of these in the NW every spring and summer. Many of these clubs hold picnic or practice events that are less formal.
There are about 4 or 5 clubs in the area that hold these events.
There are three levels:
Junior: four single marks, two land, two water.
Senior: Land double, water double, land and water blind retrieves.
Master multiple land, multiple water, multiple land/water with blinds with the marks plus other tricks and traps

The event next weekend would be a good opportunity to observe what this is all about, and if you need a bird or two we can get you a dead one(pheasant or duck) near the end of the day.
Everyone there will be more than happy to explain the ins and outs. By the way, these are the people who know good breedings for the sports sake.
Ask for Mary Jo, she is expecting some people to have questions. Finding St Louis ponds is another matter.

crabbait · 06-03-2002, 08:39 PM

Bigshark - Don't forget anti-freeze on your list of dog killers.

My friend recently took his 4 mo old yellow lab bank fishing with him. He and his buddy had some prawns baited up on the leaders laying on a towel on the hood of the truck with his pup tied to the bumper.

Ten seconds of inattention and the pup had a leader hanging out of her mouth and a 4/0 circle hook in her stomach. $400 later she is fine.

Man, ya sure gotta watch 'em.

Capin' Dan · 06-09-2002, 03:24 AM

Tilla will you hold me.

Hi Lured hope you are having a special time with that new pup. Like Tilla said earlier enjoy that puppy stage and don't get over zealous. remember he needs to learn to walk before he can run.

What I like to do with a new pup is to get it very birdy. I usually do this with pigeons. I clip thier wings and let them run and the puppies chase them and then go from that. I will hide two or three of them and take a walk in a field letting the puppy just play around. Do this for a week and see if that pups nose goes to the ground whenever it is out in the field. It should always think that it will find a bird. Start this young and you will be happy with the results. Even if you wait until the 16 weeks to start the basics. I also start with low stress for the first six months.

Labsforme. I have the upmost respect for you and your labs and have seen what your dogs are capable of and am impressed so don't take this wrong.

Wolters Rules it seems like just that one item is what turns you off about him. I recommend that you read wolters all of his books I really like them. With that said I also have Lambs book and have read it. Read them both and like Tilla said get with one or two of us that have been training a while and see what they can offer Tilla and Maryjo have a lot of good advice if you can find them when they are not swarmed by others requesting advice.

Things to remember:

Keep it FUN
Keep it simple
Keep it Fun
Keep it short (10 to 15 minutes) build with age
Keep it FUN
make a list of what you want and train to it.
Keep it Fun.

Wolters speaks to this in family dog. Usually a dog that we think is being disobediate is just confused. Don't add to that confusion by yelling or hitting. Remember the worst punishment for a young dog may just be ignoring it. Praise and exciting and kind words are what works in the early stage of life for pups. Remember they are just like little kids or teenagers for the first two years. Wolters explains how to deal with these stages and how to recognize them.

OK off my soap box.

Good luck with your puppy. You really should have checked with me lured there has never been a decent chocolate breed or yellow for that fact. Blacks rule, the other colors I usually just drown (JK) :grin: :grin:

Labs are Labs and are turly a great bred.

Tilla Hold me.

Dan!

bigshark · 06-09-2002, 05:33 PM

Capin or Tilla............Where in the devil are the St. Louis Ponds in Woodburn?? Are they behind someones gates? Sure would like to know for future tests. Where and when is the next one? Bob

Labsforme · 06-10-2002, 04:34 AM

Bigshark,go to the AKC website and search under event schedules under hunt tests
and it lists them under Oregon.Portland usually means Sauvie Island and Gervais would be St.Louis ponds.To get to St.Louis ponds from Portland I would get off at the Woodburn exit,turn right,go about 1 1/2 miles to where the road makes a bend and turn left.
Go to Jensen Rd and turn right,follow that to
where it T's and turn right,go over the freeway and aroud to just before the railroad tracks and turn left.The test grounds/dog training area are around toward the back on the right(see signs).
Dan,no offense taken,we all learn from different methods.Some just fit different styles and personalities.

Lured In · 06-10-2002, 08:06 AM

Hey Dan thanks for the feedback. Too bad you are still a Lab racist. :shocked: :grin: After all the proof is in the pudding, in this case CHOCOLATE pudding.

As long as I don't screw her up with my newbie training, she should be a great dog. I would be hard pressed to find a better set of Chocolate bloodlines.

Any suggestions on where to get pigeons, other than netting a few off the bridges downtown?

Tilla · 06-10-2002, 09:16 PM

Bigshark,
St Louis ponds is West of Gervais , or east of the town(?) of St Louis. about 1 1/2 miles by the RR track crossing. State lands. There is a dog training area south of the parking lot.
There is another Salem Retriever Trial Club AKC licensed event July 6-7 and on July 13-14 Oregon Retriever Trial club.will have oneI think at Sauvie east side, and there will be at least one more there before the month's end Rose City Labrador Club.
There is a SRTC picnic event at St. Louis Ponds Aug 18th and another Licensed AKC event by the Greater Pac Ret Trial Club in Aug .whew!

Tilla · 06-10-2002, 09:26 PM

Lured,
Our club gave up on the pigeons, we lost money and used pheasants at the club functions. You can try Marie at Estacada Gamebirds. A chukar with the wings clipped is a real retriever treat! Get a couple.
Don't do the quail thing, a little too easy to make a tempting lunch.

crabbait · 06-11-2002, 07:41 AM

I have been very pleased with the pheasants from Estacada Gamebirds. Chuckars are cheaper than pheasants but they just do not hold up to training like pigeons do, in my opinion. The availability is there, however.

Mr. Fisherman · 06-11-2002, 02:01 PM

Tilla,

I would really like to go to one of these and see what it is all about.
I think my girl is almost ready. We are working on some final touches, well until anybody else is watching anyway

Please send me more info on where to get some birds, which birds you recomend and info about the meets.

Thanks in advance,

Ray

Tilla · 06-11-2002, 04:02 PM

Estacada Game farms is 503-632-3052.Marie is her name. Most of the training can be done with rubber bumpers, once dogs know birds, they don't forget them. Pigeons are great and cheap if you can find them. Just make sure they have met all the types ahead of time.
I recommend going to a picnic event first or observing one of the licensed events to watch. It takes a bit of getting used to but it also helps get your dog trained.

Capin' Dan · 06-12-2002, 01:42 AM

Ray, remember the most important thing at the beginning is to make sure you do not screw it up. Like send your dog to early or talking to it or handling it when you shouldn't. You should watch a couple first and do the picnic thing. Rose city club has its picninc test in Aug. If you want give me a yell and we will go out and do some water work later this week or next.

Dan!