Cougar in a tree

[SLEDDER]

Would you guys feel comfortable shooting a mad cougar while he was above you in a tree with a .223. I may have this opportunity in Jan. in Idaho. Just wondering if I had enough rifle, or if I was working on getting chewed up. :whazzup:

[pdxkevin]

That depends on just how steady and accurate a shot you are at that moment.

Was it "upset" mad or "foaming at the mouth" mad? :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

[ 04-19-2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: pdxkevin ]

[Chukrchaser]

Depends on if you need an excuse for a new gun? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] And the bullet you use-- -- too close and too fast may not have expansion time -- as said before-- depends on accuracy. I don't have a chart right here but I seem to recall that the 223 jumps up above line of sight pretty quickly out of the barrel. A scope may be a hinderance as well-- Even 3x at 50 ft can be real tough to decide what is in the field of view -- if it will even focus at that distance.

[ 04-20-2002, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Chukrchaser ]

[SLEDDER]

Yep, I need an excuse for a new gun, what caliber would you guys think would be best. It would be close range and I don't want to tear the crap out of the hide.

[Washington Hunter]

I think the .223 would work just fine. If you want a new gun, I would consider one of those short little Ruger semi-autos in 44 Mag. Either that or a lever action 30-30.

[fishinbuddy]

I would go with either a .243 or a .270 for close range cougar. Killed lots of deer with a .243 and have a relative who killed a bull elk in one shot with one. Myself I would go with a .270 if you are looking for an excuse to buy a new gun. Great gun all around. Outstanding ballistics and very versitile. You can hunt anything in this neck of the woods with a .270. Enough power to take down an elk and it won't tear up a deer.

A 30-30 would do the trick quite nicely. :smile:

[walkersteelhead]

The .270 ultra mag is a nice new gun.

[Megabites]

There is a standard referance called the Taylor Knock Out (KO) scale. Download a copy of a program called PointBlank, it's a free balistics program. It is designed for reloading but is a great reference for the "how much gun" types of questions. Most common mistakes about gun selection are made for the wrong reasons. Bullet selection is much more important than caliber. You need to know how your bullet is going to shoot before you will know how your gun will shoot. Play with the balistics program to get a feel for what changes effect KO power and site in for point blank range. Off the cuff I would say your .223 is fine. However you need to shoot a heavier bullet than most .223 shells come with. The .223 round was designed to wound not kill (typical millitary round). You should also try to find either a hollow point or balistic tip for quicker expansion. As allways shot placement is the key to any successfull kill. So go out and shoot your gun with the round you intend to hunt with. Shoot at diffent ranges so you know where your bullet place in real world situations. Good luck and happy hunting.

[periwinkle]

Why a new rifle?? Why not a pistol?? My son killed a 250# blk bear at 20 yds w/ a 44 mag and open sights. That's more gun than you need for a 'treed' cougar. Who needs to run thru the woods w/ a rifle? Good sights, pro point or whatever, on a hand gun would be fine. Help him out hand gun guys --(dogfish) :smile:

[Chukrchaser]

Agree with most of what's said-- 223 would do the job if you know what it will do at 50 or 75 ft. One issue is -- will it be a clear shot -- 223 will deflect off a very small twig if your going into a tree-- Preferance would be the "old" round nose style bullet with a lot of weight -- won't be as much expansion because of a lack of speed and bullet dynamics compared to the 223 but it will cut the brush -- the venerable 30-30 or the 44 that was mentioned would be suggestions -- they aren't sexy like the ultra mag but imagine what 130 gr at 3000+ ft per sec would do to a hide -- OK it may do nothing -- go through soft tissue like a needle -- but if it hits a bone there is not enough body mass to absorb that much shock-- something is going to come apart-- cougars are not eligible for the red mist society are they? :whazzup:
Pistols are an option -- but I prefer a longer sighting plane. -- Maybe not enough John Wayne in me-- :grin:

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

If you're fixed on getting a .223 to shoot your cougar, get some handloads with 60-70 grain bullets. That will give you the penetration you need. Since it's a treed cougar, velocity isn't all that important as long as it's over 2500 fps.

A .243 would work better, but you can also use a .357 if you want to carry less weight. Me, I'd probably go for the .357.

A friend of mine works cougar problems in eastern WA and had to track down one a landowner popped with a Mini-14 (.223). Guy probably used the standard varmint bullet load as the bullets didn't penetrate that well. Left a blood trail, but didn't slow the cougar down all that much. My friend doesn't need to save hides so he used a state provided .270.

[Norm]

I personally would not go much bigger than a .223 ,you will just increase the risk of damaging the hide. It's probably going to be at close range and you'll have plenty of time to pick your shot. Cougers are no heavily boned like bear, so It's mostly going to be about proper shot placement for minimum damage and a quick kill. The guide will probably be packing a .357 or .44 in case the cat gets ito his dogs anyway.

[SLEDDER]

Everybody has their opinion, as I do, I don't disagree with any of you. I have a .223 and I won't be shooting those FMJ military rounds. I was a Sniper and have my experiences. The FMJ will just tick off the cougar. I was also thinking of my .45 sig. (war souveneir)A treed cougar doesn't pose too big of a threat unless you are lacking in common sense. Hide integrity is #2 priority, #1 (I don't get bit)! :grin: :grin: Thanks for your input, and the lead on the free ballistics.

[sinker]

One gun I've read is a nice brush gun and looks like a nice round according to the ballistics is the .35 Whelen.
Haven't talked to anyone with one yet though.