Mixed breed Bird Dogs?

SuperT · 01-13-2002, 05:55 PM

I tried asking some of the breeders/trainers the same question I'm about to ask all of you, but they either never replied or were very rude. I just got a puppy from the pound that is a German SH pointer/labrador retriever mix (I was looking for a dog that would be a great family pet and good bird dog for strictly recreational hunting). The question is: Is there any reason that this dog could not function well as a bird dog? Both breeds are well suited for it, and I don't see where it would lose much of either breeds natural instincts. Also since I've never trained a dog before, if any of you have tips or know of some good reference material, please let me know (other than basic obedience for which we already have classes scheduled). Thanks.

Dogfish · 01-13-2002, 06:55 PM

Uh oh, you opened a can of worms now.

I have a dog of "mixed ancestry", as well. Jenna is the product of a purebread chocolate lab dame and a black lab/golden retriever cross. She looks just like a black lab, and I have had a few folks with purebred dogs comment on how nice her lines were.

Her birthday was August 8th, 2001, and she has turned out to be a darned good bird dog that cost me nothing. Today she swam after a crippled mallard for over 70 yards to retrieve it, her longest retrieve to date. She put up her first rooster at the age of three months, got her first goose at 4 months, and has improved every time out in the field.

You have an excellent chance at turning your dog into a first rate bird dog. The best bird dog I ever saw is my friend's dog, Gypsy. She looks just like the mad max dog, but she is hell on ducks, geese, and raccoons. Develop a good rapport with the dog, train her/him well, and give the dog lots of love.

Try the books by Wolters, family dog, water dog, etc. Start with Family dog first, and I would suggest that you buy it tomorrow. It is never too early to start training.

I'll post a pick of her from today's outing.

Andy
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willametteriveroutlaw · 01-13-2002, 07:21 PM

We had a german/ springer mix when I was a kid. He was really a good pup, Granted he came from excellent blood lines, but he really loved to hunt. I think that it is all in the training.

periwinkle · 01-13-2002, 08:54 PM

Dogfish you never stop amazing me --- you're here, you're there, you're everywhere! :grin: I almost fell off my chair in mirth at your opening sentence. Yes I remember when you brought up this topic a few months ago and got peed all over by the 'purists'...
By the way SuperT, check the color of your pups mouth (inside) it's an intelligence quotient according to the blk lab 'oldtimers'.... That quote by Snake still cracks me up --my GWP is a Rhodes Scholar but has a red mouth (not blk)!!!
Hey Super maybe your pup will point ducks.

I had a lab/G Shepard mix once that was great in the water. :tongue:

Capin' Dan · 01-13-2002, 11:25 PM

I am a pure breed snob of sorts as I have been breeding, hunting and showing Labs for the past 15 years. I think and have seen dogs of mixed breeds do very well. I do however cringe every time I here of people planning breeding of these sorts. This is something that I should try to overcome because realistically even the lab is a dog of mixed breeding as are most breeds when traced back to their ancestry. I think the lab is a cross between the Newfinland dog and something else I don't remember what. We all need to try and be responsible breeders and look for hips/eyes and elbow problems that can be hereditary. I have a friend whom swears on the lab/English setter mix and one of the best dogs I have ever hunted over was a lab/golden mix. One thing about the Lab genes they do stamp fairly strong in their prodigy. Be responsible dog owners is the only thing that we can ask.

Labsforme · 01-14-2002, 04:14 AM

Since you have the dog already,with proper training it will probably make a good retriever.The pointing instinct may or may not come out strong enough to use in that way.If I were going to be looking for a pup to begin with
a registered pup from a qualified/reputable breeder is the best way to start off.

Jim · 01-14-2002, 05:46 AM

Best pheasant dog I have ever hunted behind was of questionable ancestry.....that is my one and only experience in this category but man that was an awesome dog!

Jim

SuperT · 01-14-2002, 12:16 PM

Labsforme,
I was pretty impressed. Took the pup outside last night to let her do her thing, heard some rustling in the grass on the other side of the fence, I look at her and she's in a point. Kind of glad I saw that early on. She's out of her groggy state now from getting spayed and showing a lot more energy and a lot more of her natural instincts now. 2 days ago she'd barely go outside to go, now we can hardly get her back inside. She just wants to sniff everything. Thanks for all of your input. Dan, I actually thought about calling you for one of your labs, but my wife went on a tirade about not liking stubby dogs. :grin: :grin: (Hope that doesn't get me permanently banned from your boat

)

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Labsforme · 01-14-2002, 12:38 PM

Super T :if you are looking for a couple of books for pointing dogs(don't ask Tilla he's a Wolter's
fan :tongue: ) Training the North American Versatile Hunting Dog (NAVHDA)for upland and waterfowl type dogs or Delmar Smith for pointing only.I hunted over GSP's for both in that other state south of Or.I have FT background labs now.

periwinkle · 01-14-2002, 03:43 PM

Good positive posts guys.
Tilla --My first real hinting dog was also a Beagle. He was a barrel of fun to hunt cottontails with. Once he broke trail I'd just stand near that spot and pretty soon ol bunny worked in a circl back to point A, POW.
I know they use them in cornfields in the midwest for pheasants, but I always wondered if the Beagles 'bayed' on the trail of a bird?

Super ... Get Delmar Smiths video on teaching pointing dogs, it is excellent.
If you want your dog to use its' pointing skills for hunting you must teach it to hold on point (whup, wait) and not creep forward. Consequently I'd suggest holding off on retrieving untill she masters the 'hold'. Especially out of sight retrieves (tall grass etc) where she uses her nose to go find and pick up.
I made that mistake with my GWP and she tends to get real tight on birds before stopping and holding because she learned to use her nose to locate the bumpers and pick them up. Also there is no substitute for real birds. Find some pigeons. An electronic bird release and some homeing pigeons works really well. I started my sons GWP this way and he's awesome. I'm rambling now------good luck and have fun. :smile:

Tilla · 01-14-2002, 11:46 PM

Hey Peri W, does that make chinnok smarter than coho?

Training can help a lot. If you can get the dog to like the game and he is willing to use his nose you got it made. The trick here is to develop the fun in retrieving, making it the "funnest" thing in the dogs mind. The other instinct is the chase instict. That's where, as I have mentioned before, take a live wing clipped hen Pheasant and give it a head start in an open field and let the dog go, you will know right off the bat what the potential is.
Even the AKC recognizes the standard Poodle as a retriever as of two years ago!
Still prefer the pure breds for consistency and I don't mean to pee on anyone.
I started hunting Pheasants with Beagles! :shocked: