North River Paint (pics)

[Mr.Kitch'nPass]

First, let me just say that this is not a thread to bash North River, or their paint. I understood when I ordered my boat that North River doesn’t warranty their paint. That being said, I do feel the problem I am having is due to poor preparation prior to painting at the factory. Within three months I started seeing these bubbles in the paint. At first it was just one small area, but over the last year or so, every time I wash the boat, I find more and more. I have contacted North River and was told the only way I could get an estimate to re-paint my boat was to drive all the way to Roseburg! My concern here is that there is something going on under the paint that if I don’t take care of it I will have a bigger problem on my hands. Has anyone else ever run into this problem? If it was your boat would you be concerned?

[HOGTIDE]

Wow...that kinda stuff makes my stomach ache. It does look like the paint did not adhere and is simply flexing away with the expansion and contraction of the aluminum. I would be very suprised if they did not warranty that????? unless you had gone with an outside custom job.

Could you imagine how many Fords you would sell if they had paint problems and they didn't stand behind it?

I know North River is becoming famous for poppin em out fast now days....but they gotta cover this one!

Good Luck with this .

[Jettin' Fool]

If you find out what is let me know...I have a few small spots like that as well.

Jfool

[playinghooke]

That looks more like salt corrosion check your zinc's & make sure your electrical is grounded good. OUCH!!!!

[Flush Release]

Yes it is a bigger problem than just bubbley paint. What you are seeing is corrosion build up between the paint and aluminum where there was insufficiant bonding of the paint. If you srcape off the paint it will be full of grey to white aluminum oxide. I would get a scraper and remove the blisters, treat the corrosion with a Stainless wire brush, acid etch it and then prime it with zink cromate.
As for the one at the chine you may have trouble brewing there.

[5-Cents]

If thats corrosion that can be a huge problem... imagine the damage you cant see if thats the case! I would get a professional opinion right away if I were you!

[Full Throttle]

Dave, how old is your boat? I purchased a Scout last year and haven't had this problem yet, but this makes me nervous. :shocked:

[ampersat]

Could be corrosion, could just be poor paint prep. Either way, it's gotta come off sooner or later so you might want to preemptively pressure wash it off and see if it's damage. If so, you'll want to work on it as soon as possible.

Ever had that boat in the salt? Got zincs? Is your wiring all homed back or (heaven forbid) grounded on the hull?

[Bait O' Eggs]

Its already not adhered to the boat, why not break those bubbles off and see what it looks like underneath.

Had a chevy once that was about 60% peeled before I sold it.

These are the reasons I got my boat with no paint. Oh, and it wasnt a NR

[King Fisher]

Ouch, that should be covered. That is a nice boat too.

[Mr.Kitch'nPass]

Ever had that boat in the salt? Got zincs? Is your wiring all homed back or (heaven forbid) grounded on the hull?

The boat has been in salt but washed and rinsed after every use. Zincs are good and I have cleaned them with a wire brush as needed. How do I tell where the boat is grounded?

As for the one at the chine you may have trouble brewing there.

All these bubbles are along the top and bottom chine. I have been told North River now paints to just above the lower chine now because of this proplem.

[Kalamanator]

I wonder if you have North Rivers attention yet? Ifish is great isn't it? :grin:

:lurk:

[NR scout 22]

I have the same problem with my scout,it two years old,Washed after each use,salt and fresh,new zincs a couple of times a year which were puchased at nr so there the right ones (they say)I brought it to Tacoma Store and they basically said it was my problem(go figure).I'll have a buddy take a pictue and post them soon.

Jason Schumacher

[SMACKDOWN]

I have paint bubbling on my North River Sportster also. Mostly near the welds and bondo. I bought the boat new in 2000 and it has been stored in my garage. The zincs and wiring are the way they came from North River. I have not mentioned the paint issue to them and I don't think I will.

[Dr Strangelove]

I have a garaged 99 Sportster and also have paint bubbling on the rear gunnels near seams and welds; I suspect corrosion since the bottom is pitted in places. I will try scrape a small section tonight and post pics of what's underneath.

[EULACHON]

MR NR is an early one 1996 and it has the same issue on the gunnels. Not bad but looks like a car from the midwest. Mine has always been touched up so as not to spread. I was told this is an ongoing issue with the "old ones" but they fixed it on the new ones.

All of these factors take into acount when I start looking at a new boat.

I emailed them for a couple new stickers as mine are peeling and I like to keep my boat as nice as I can so customer service is also a big factor,,,,,lets see what happens

Paul

[Kalamanator]

Where were all of you people that are unhappy with NorthRiver when I was asking all the questions about the differn't boat manufacturers? It sounds to me like I can be thankfull we decided to wait to buy for a while. This may just make a difference who I spend my $40,000. with next year

:lurk:

[onstep]

What you are looking at is common for Northriver boats. Next time you are at the ramp or walk by one on the trailer look it's always are around the chines, top snaps, and gunnels. My two guesses are electrolysis and lack of quality primer. The dissimaliar metal issue could be playing a huge factor. I know motion marine goes to great ends to fight this battle. Has anyone with a Northriver taken a reading on their boat and made sure the electrical is properly grounded. In the past boat companies were improperly installing electrical in order to save money. Northriver could be intentionally or unintentionally doing this. Alumaweld has had different problems over the years with paint. I know because ours fell off in large sheets!!! Alumaweld said it was because of the primer and kudos to them they took care of the problem. We should all learn from this and do the one thing that can guard agianst these types of problems. Don't put paint on a boat. :grin:

[deadstick]

My NR has paint to the chine and have had no problems. It has seen salt many times. I have several guides on our pro staff and lots of freinds with NR boats and no problems encountered by any of them. I think this problem is not "common" with this brand from what I have seen. I have seen paint problems on other brands as well, including huge chunks of powder coat pulling away from motion marines. My 2 cents

[EULACHON]

Never said I was UNHAPPY just that the paint seems to be an issue. Gotta look at all the factors not just the paint.

Paul

[lingslayer]

The problem appears to be from a lack of proper prep. Remove the bubbles and see if the aluminum is pitted beneath them. If it is, then it's mainly a lack of etching and "Conversion Coating." Conversion coating is a 2nd prep process where the aluminum is rinsed with an acid solution that has chromates suspended in the acid, and it deposits a small amount of crystalline-like zinc (or other anode). The CC method results in better adhesion, and if it does bubble it will be around a chip or scratch, and the CC/primer combo protects the aluminum from corrosive damage.
The problem comes from paint companies that tell the painter(s) that they can skip the CC process if they use a "self etching" primer (BASF reps were famous for this).

NorthRiver didn't used to have their own paint dept. They always farmed out the paint work. I don't know what they are doing these days. Get on that problem before it gets worse. It could be eating it's way into the aluminum, not just spreading on the surface.

Good luck.
Jamie

[illbfish]

My 2001 North River Mariner after 400 trips has had no problems, Knock on wood. Been to the salt 100 times. I just can't believe they wouldn't take care of a problem. They have allways been there for me. I would buy another North River in a minute. I do agree with the no paint comment, I originally ordered it with no paint.

Bill
Jacks or Better

[aye fsh]

Yup, same problem here on a 19' boat I got in Dec. of '99
I thought I was the only one and that it was something I was doing wrong.
I am considering upgrading to something in the 22 - 24 ft range, but know this paint prob will be a deterrent for my selling my current boat as well as for me to get another NR ( which is what I really want!)
Sucks

[Kalamanator]

[quote]
Never said I was UNHAPPY just that the paint seems to be an issue. Gotta look at all the factors not just the paint.[quote]




Sorry, I'm not sayin that your unhappy just that I never heard a thing about the paint issue, with over a couple hundred replys to my request for information on what boat to buy.
I still hold high regard for the NORTH RIVER but I do have to say that if I spen $40,000. on a boat and the paint starts to blister after a few months or even a couple of years I am going to be Ticked off. I am sure that NR has addressed the issue, however I will make a point of covering this with them next year before I make any decisions on the new boat purchase.

My 2-Cents :shocked:

[Mr.Kitch'nPass]

The problem appears to be from a lack of proper prep.

Ling,thats what I have thought from the start. Do you have any suggestions on where I should take it to get repaired? :whazzup:

I just can't believe they wouldn't take care of a problem.

I wasn't looking for something for nothing. I knew when I purchased the boat that the paint wasn't warrantied. I just never guessed it would have done this! I think it would have been nice if they would have helped in some way. Let me just say that if anyone ever purchased a car from me that had this type of problem and Ford wouldn't cover it? I would.

[White Knuckle]

My dads boat has the same thing but it is near the gas tank inlet. Fuel was probably the culprate in that case. Now they are using vynal strips instead of paint on their boats I wonder if they noticed they are haveing trouble of some kind?

[lost_sailor]

For as much money as those boats cost, one would hope the finish would stay on.

[SlipKnot]

I had a 2001 NW Jet Boat that did the exact same thing. I carefully took the paint off one of the bubble spots and looked underneath and there appeared to be no damage or corrosion to the aluminum at all. I also talked to the dealer and factory about the problem and they stated that it was very common for this to happen if the boat was used in salt. I suspect that most of the bubble spots are close to a chine or a cleat and not in the middle of a paint section? That's because the water finds little tiny places to get in under the paint and start the bubble process.

Anytime that you take a boat that has to stand up to the rigors of salt water, etc and try and paint it pretty like a car, you are going to be in for dissappointment.

When I started in the market for a larger boat, I really loved a lot of the high dollar, beautifal boats like the NR and Alumawelds but after being down the dissapointment road with a couple smaller, yet still high dollar boats, I just decided to buy a less fancy fishing machine and not get worked up over the paint.

[Kalamanator]

For as much money as those boats cost, one would hope the finish would stay on.

That's what I'm talking about Brother

[Thumper]

For as much money as those boats cost, one would hope the finish would stay on.

Take your new Ford F-250 and soak it in salt water for a few hours 10 or 20 times a year. See if there is an effect. :depressed: And the auto guys have been working on corrosion protection for about 100 years.

That's why there ain't no paint on the outside of the Thumpermobile.

[Kalamanator]

:lurk:

[Mr.Kitch'nPass]

First, let me just say that this is not a thread to bash North River, or their paint

Thumper, your point is taken. Ford's warranty is 100k miles on paint and corrosion. Those vehicles drive through salt all winter long back east. In hind sight, I probably wouldn't put paint on my boat. But the question isn't should the paint stay on? The question is how do I fix the problem I have? :whazzup:

[RODACTION]

Take your new Ford F-250 and soak it in salt water for a few hours 10 or 20 times a year. See if there is an effect. :depressed: And the auto guys have been working on corrosion protection for about 100 years.

Exactly !!

Any metal, even some stainless will get the bad effects of salt water. It's not just because NR cut corners on the prep, primer, or paint (I don't think they did). ANY aluminum boat will be effected by salt, not just a NR. NR and a lot of other aluminum boat manufactures build quallity boats that will oxidize in the salt.

I have had no problems with my NR, and it gets to see alot of salt :grin:. But, It is a lot of work to clean it up when we get home. :tongue:

[SlipKnot]

Don't take my word for it, but I don't think it's a problem until you try and sell it. Don't bother trying to repaint it because it will just happen again.

I seriously considered repainting my NW Jet right before I sold it. I received estimates from $2000 to $3000 dollars. I figured it would be a wash with the increased value. I just lowered the price and the guy who bought it has a great boat with couple of bubble spots. No harm, no foul.

[Tacklebuster]

I have had a NR since June of last year and she has seen the salt plenty of times. I have not had any paint issues at all, except when Clatsop County's finest rammed into my bow when doing a courtesy inspection

Boats endure a lot of hardships. If you buy something and an item is not under warranty, there is probably a reason for that. My only real concern would be if the aluminum underneath the paint is being harmed. If all is good underneath and it's just small eye sores when you look at it then I really wouldn't be that concerned. You can always prep the area and put a little touch up on her.

I think an idea would be to get in touch with Scott. He has someone that does some vinal (sp ) stuff and it looks really good. I also have a number for a guy that can do it as well. This stuff sticks on your floater and looks top notch. It will be a whole lot cheaper than getting her re painted and this stuff ain't going to bubble up. Check your aluminum out and make sure that nothing is going on with that first though.

Paint on an aluminum boat looks pretty but will not last the life of the boat. There are a whole bunch of factors that can shorten the life of the paint and with all the hardships your boat will endure, I can see why paint may not covered under warranty. Get her a make over, be glad your boat runs great and doesn't leak and go a few fish

[FinFansea]

Where were all of you people that are unhappy with NorthRiver when I was asking all the questions about the differn't boat manufacturers? It sounds to me like I can be thankfull we decided to wait to buy for a while. This may just make a difference who I spend my $40,000. with next year

Kalamanator, just purchase a Boulton!

[Killertraylor]

I have those bubbles on my 2000 Seahawk around the snaps and cleats - only where something was installed after the boat was painted - they are small and unobtrusive and I've popped some of them and the aluminum is fine - it's just from water leaking under the paint from what I can tell. I have a lot of paint on my boat including the full hardtop, interior, splashwell and transom - I've got no bubbles anywhere else.

I've got friends who have popped them all and re-primed them and have had no more bubbles. It's really a small inconvenience when compared to the major problems I've experienced with my other boats, and not something that I'd consider remotely "serious". I'd like to have all mine fixed, but haven't done it yet - it's not a major job, just scrape them off and put primer and touch up paint on them. It's a fishing boat, not a show car. I still believe it's the safest and most reliable boat I've ever owned.

[NorthRiverRick]

Like Slipknot says: If you use it in saltwater, it will find a way to get in.

My first NR '93 had bottom paint and after a few years started doing the same thing. This time I chose not to spend the $500 to get the aluminum painted an aluminum color . Guess what, no bubbles and I use it in the salt all the time.

I imagine that eventually I'll start seeing some salt corrosion in the areas that are painted, but it comes with the territory (aluminum & saltwater).

[CATCH AND EAT]

Dave Flush Release has it right. I would suspect some corrosion below those bubbles and would worry a bit about the chine area too. Most likely was not preped right and an adhesion problem commenced. Combine that with a bit of salt water getting in behind the bubbles and "Bubble, bubble toil and trouble." Might be worth the drive to NR in Roseburg for a look-see at it. Besides, they have springers in the Rogue too!

Do a test scrape and see what lies beneath.

[foxer]

Now I know why Hewescraft uses a vinyl decal on the side of their boats...

[KEITH]

have a 2002 that north river blamed on a outside paint shop so they repainted and it is worse poor prep is the bigest problem

[ampersat]

In hind sight, I probably wouldn't put paint on my boat. But the question isn't should the paint stay on? The question is how do I fix the problem I have?

How do you fix the problem? Well, you could have all of the paint removed. That would be a fix and you would never have to worry about it again. Nothing wrong with a bare metal boat. Makes you focus on the important stuff, like whacking the side of the boat netting a fish. Try doing that with a "pretty boat". It could be the biggest fish of your life but you'll feel sick to your stomach for having dinged the paintjob.

The other option would be to call down and have a long talk with their paint tech about what products were used and the process used to apply them. Then you could try to find someone locally to do patch painting and hope that the rest of the paint holds up.

Or you could take it somewhere, have them prep it down to bare metal again, paint it and hope for the best.

I wonder if GBS could whip out some smokin' decals in one piece (or several integrated pieces) to decorate your boat with? Pretty, custom, durable and somewhere around the cost of a paint job. Heck, I'm having thoughts of dressing up the Camo Queen now.

[259]

what are zincs?

[eyeFISH]

Now I know why Hewescraft uses a vinyl decal on the side of their boats...

So how many other manufacturers use or recommend vinyl instead of paint? How well does it hold up?

[Thumper]

what are zincs?

Search "zincs". You will soon be an expert on the subject.

[Flush Release]

So how many other manufacturers use or recommend vinyl instead of paint? How well does it hold up?

If it is applied right Vinyl coats are nearly indistructable. The "applied right" is the clue to it working. I have worked on a few big Aluminum boats in Alaska that were Vinyl coated and the stuff really holds down good if left unbroken.

[Flush Release]

what are zincs?

Sacraficial anodes to protect your boat from electrolosis.

[backlash442]

Any word from NR since this thread hit the board? I'd be surprised if you haven't been contacted.

I can understand not having the paint under warranty. They have no QC over that process. Application of the paint is a different story. How do you prove which is the problem though? Is there a way?

[Mudbone]

Salt is a cancer it will kill everything it touches. :depressed:

[Jennie@ifish]

Wow... You know, Bill's Alumaweld Super Vee has been in the salt ALOT and we aren't very good about washing it off all the time. There are several days that we just back it in the garage after a day in the bay.
I think Bill's just spoiled. He's had so many Alumaweld's that he knows they can take it.
Alumaweld must "alumaweld" it's paint on. ???
Ten years have passed and we don't have any corrosion. I guess we are just lucky.
Here is a good thread, though, that Brian Brush wrote about (Click here for) taking care of your paint.

I guess we are just lucky?
Our boat still looks like brand new!
Jen

[STGRule]

They really must "alumaweld" it on. Many, many years of not always washing off the salt and every ding and nick that a driftboat can get and it's still stuck good. In fact it may be a real problem figuring out how to get it off if we ever feel the need to pretty it back up.

[Dr Strangelove]

I just did the test scrape on my gunnel bubbles adjacent to the welds and found white aluminum oxide powder, but no pitting. I will have those gunnel sections repainted by Northriver in May when I have them install my TR-1. I'll also have them check the hull out for stray current. BTW, my bubbles looked just like the bubbles on Mr.Kitch'nPass' pics - that area next to the chine is crucial to repair; mine are basically cosmetic.

[depa201]

Looks alot like corrosion, don't go without a professional check or opinion, make sure your grounds go back to battery. Good Luck, I have a NR and will be wathcing mine closely.

[peter frederick]

Hello ya all,

It is important when adding electronics/holes to you boat that you do use a silicon for every screw/hole. Also watch the Zinc's.

We work as hard as we can threw all phases of manufacturing, Sales, and Service to complete the best Aluminum boat on the market today, and to service our customers 100%.

Thanks Guy's

Pete Frederick
Portland Performance Marine

[Gus Orviston]

I read on North River's pamplet they provided at the sportsman show that Paint is warranteed, of course limited. So what does that give ya If not for bubbling then what?

Also, compare and contrast the paint warranty from Alumaweld, do they stand behind their paint job?

It would seem that you pay as much money as you do, a paint job would be covered, what is the rate at which you add $ to cover it? It all seems silly but it does have me asking the question regarding Alumaweld service?

gus

[wisper]

M.K.P.

dont listen to them..... that my friend is a bad paint job!

They are trying to smooth the thing over kind of like the sheeps wool over your thighs!

get them to fix it!