Caliber for varmit rifle: .223 or .22-250 ?

[Doc Spratley]

The IRS is going to be very generous to me this year. Therefore, I've decided to spend some of my tax return on a new varmit rifle. I'd like some input, pro and con, regarding caliber: .223 or .22-250. Personally, I am leaning towards the .22-250 because of its "reach" and I've read it bucks the wind better. I will primarily use it in clear/open country.

Oh yeah, I'm always willing to hear you folks talk about your favorite rifle for varmit shooting as well.

[baltz526]

i use my 22-250 for coyotes mostly,over they years i have killed four deer with it.i would say the 22-250 because of the higher velocity.i have one 55grload that cronographs at 3850fps and shoots 3/4" groups. a 223 will not come close

[Shark Bait]

In a perfect world BOTH!

For general use I think that it is pretty hard to beat the 223. Cheap to shoot, very little to zero recoil in a varmint weight rifle, and I have never really had a problem reaching out on sage rats. Mine is a Ruger varmint rifle with the two-stage trigger and it shoots better than I do.

Of course the velocity edge with the 22-250 lends itself to spectacular "red mist". The trade offs? More noise/recoil (compared to the 223), more expensive to shoot, and the barrel will heat up faster during rapid fire. My buddy had a Remington 700 and it was pretty awesome with 40 grain Nosler BT's, but the recoil would often times shift the gun far enough off target that the shooter would miss the visuals.

So much for helping huh?

[billc_sbio]

IF you reloaded (and were "handy" at reloading), the "best" would be to probably get a .223 Varmint Rifle and have it rechambered for .223 Ackley Improved.

Then you could shoot regular .223s in it that would "fire form" the cases.

From all I've heard the .223 Akley Imp. is an awesome cartridge. It only requires different dies to reload for it, yet uses the very common .223 cartridges either fired or whole to make it into the better performer that it is.

I haven't done this (yet) to my .223 Varmint gun, but have thought about it seriously...one of these days probably!

I know this is "above" what most people want to do, but you did say "best" didn't you?

[Chukrchaser]

Depends on your "primary target" -- Sage rats/rock chucks or coyotes. If the answer is the smaller varmits -- Look at the 204 Ruger -- 4250fps and has better down range accuracy than the 22-250 with near zero recoil. (enjoy the mist) If primarily coyotes -- the 204 would be "adequate" but for really reaching out -- perhaps the 22-250 has an edge in knock down power.

The 223 Akley is a good round on paper -- but the gyrations you have to go through for it can be a pain -- and expensive.

[StickFish]

Depends one what you want to do. If your shots are under 200 yards and you shoot in semi populated areas .223. Brass is cheap by the bucket loaded plinking ammo easy to get. One hole performance from a good rifle not uncommon. We used to get bored with mine and shoot bottle caps off the target frame - they were laying on their side. Also used to shoot yellow jackets that would venture after my peanut butter.

Longer Range bigger critters 22-250

Both will shoot the entire inventory of .224 bullets, but I would advise that you decide on the bullet weight and the appropriate twist rate for it - Faster for heaverier bullets 1/9 for the 69 grain VLD's, 1/14 for the 52 grain.

Also try some Berger Bullets they are fantastic.

Course the best would be a 22 Remington Bench Rest, but that is a story in it self.

[billc_sbio]

The 223 Akley is a good round on paper -- but the gyrations you have to go through for it can be a pain -- and expensive.

That's true, I only know the .223 Imp. from "on paper", i.e. what other, VERY respected and knowledgeable, shooters have to say.

And it IS good, VERY good! So good in fact that they take the time to discuss it. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.

The only personal experience I have is with a friend's .257 Ackley Imp. and it really isn't that much of a "gyration". Just shoot the regular cartridges in it, even for "hunting" if you want. When you're done, just use different dies to reload...pretty easy actually.

The biggest hassle is getting the rifle's barrel rechambered.

I think, someday, when my 40X's throat is erroded enough to require the barrel being set back, I'll probably have the chamber re-cut to Ackley Imp. at the same time.

[baltz526]

now that you have heard on the cartridge,i shoot a remington 788 22-250,great beater gun that i don't worry about getting marred.if i was looking to buy a new rifle i would buy a ruger 77 laminated stock 22-250 and put a good 6x18x40 scope on it,i like the simmons prohunter for the money.

[Doc Spratley]

StickFish, :shocked: Shooting yellow jackets off of your peanut butter! :shocked: I bow to your superior shooting skills.

To everyone, thanks for the responses. I hadn't even considered barrel twist, but certainly that can be as important, or more so, than the actual make of rifle you pick up.

[baltz526]

most stock 223,22-250 rifles are set up to shoot 52/55 grain bullets with 1in 14" twist.they will shoot 64gr power points fair and 40 gr balistic tip fair.some rifles like one gr bullet better than others but if you plan on shooting 52/55 gr bullets it should be easy to get good accuracy out of most stock rifles.if you want to shoot 69gr to 80gr match bullets a faster twist is needed 1 in 8"to 1 in 10" depending on the bullet you chose.

[skein]

I agree whole-heartedly with what Stick Fish said.

But having shot my 17HMR for rats, I'm going to throw in another vote for the 204. It's fast, flat, and there's virtually NO recoil. Perfect rat and rockchuck gun. Even pretty effective on 'yotes.

'Course I have a 22-250 to fall back on.

Truth is, you won't go wrong with any of those calibers.

Skein

[brshooter]

Seems like everyone ignores the 22ppc or 6ppc. Both are very capable of dispatching varmints as well as paper. I have a couple of 6's and wouldn't trade them for anything.

[billc_sbio]

I agree whole-heartedly with what Stick Fish said.

But having shot my 17HMR for rats, I'm going to throw in another vote for the 204. It's fast, flat, and there's virtually NO recoil. Perfect rat and rockchuck gun. Even pretty effective on 'yotes.

'Course I have a 22-250 to fall back on.

Truth is, you won't go wrong with any of those calibers.

Skein

I agree that the .204 Ruger sounds like a GREAT idea!

In fact, I ordered a Rifle barrel for my Contender just this past week. Unfortunately, the barrel won't be here until mid-Summer. :depressed:

But another thought, and hopefully just a temporary situation here, has anybody tried to GET any ammo or components for one of these?!!

Midway just sent out a flyer with "Nice Prices" on components, Hornady Bullets and Winchester Unprimed Bulk Brass. I called to try to order some, and they told me they never GOT the big order of Brass they'd planned on and didn't have the bullets yet
either!

I checked with my local Bi-Mart to find out what the availability of loaded ammo was and they DIDN'T HAVE ANY! They told me as soon as they do, this same customer comes in and buys it all (usually just a few boxes) up!

So, seeing as any of this .204 stuff isn't needed right away, I'm o.k. for now. But what if I DID have a .204 Rifle, what then?!!

(Good thing I have a .17HMR Barrel for the Contender )

[baltz526]

i think i saw the 204 brass at the nosler shooters pro shop a couple weeks ago

[billc_sbio]

i think i saw the 204 brass at the nosler shooters pro shop a couple weeks ago

The other "problem" w/.204 Ruger at this moment is there is NO powder available that matches what the factories load it with.

There are recipes for reloading, but so far, none of them come very close to duplicating factory performance.

I would imagine this will eventually be rectified ...hopefully sooner than later.

[baltz526]

have you tried varget,i would think this would be a good powder for the 204. i think the hodgdon powder web site has 204 listed,i'll check. i just the site and they have several good loads listed,varget is a little slow for this case size but there are a couple of better powders h335, blc/2 h4895

[billc_sbio]

have you tried varget,i would think this would be a good powder for the 204. i think the hodgdon powder web site has 204 listed,i'll check. i just the site and they have several good loads listed,varget is a little slow for this case size but there are a couple of better powders h335, blc/2 h4895

Yep, I'm familiar with (and have and use) all those powders that I've used for loading .17 Jet, .222 and .223 cartridges. And they're up on Hodgdon's site along with recipes for the .204.

However all the loadings fall well below the published factory velocities for the .204.

It's been widely published that the factories are using a "special" powder, developed just for this cartridge, that's not available to handloaders at this time.

Too bad, huh?!!

[REEL HANDEL]

I shoot a 220 swift and like real well it will kill deer and any thing down I have killed coyotes at a honest 490 yrds. love this cal. It is a ruger 77 varmit with 26 inch. barrel

[baltz526]

it seemed to me by looking at the psi hodgdon was publishing,with their loads they where on the very safe side of the sami max pressure.and approaching 4100fps

[aosteelheader]

I'll second the .220 swift. Its a fine varmint masher, not my choice for deer but to each his own.
I shot rats with mine today, and my buddy shot his 22-250
there's not a nickel worth of diffence in the two cartrides in my opinion. They both produce a red mist on rats.
I've had mixed results on coyotes with my swift. It kills them like lightning but can be hard on pelts especially at closer ranges like we have around here for called coyotes. If you dont care about the pelt then its just right.
I also shot rats today with my .222 mag. Was shooting a 40 gr. balistic tip, with good results. But it's not a long range set up.
To answer your question (sort of) I would say if you are going to spend the money on a heavy barreled varmint crusher go with the 22-250. If you are wanting a lighter sporter type rifle then a .223 would be a good choice. Both are easy to handload for. What ever your coice is just don't cheap out on the optics. Just my opinions and we all know about those! Good luck.

[Twitchs_Tackle]

i would buy a ruger 77 laminated stock 22-250 and put a good 6x18x40

Thats the one I have, except its only packing a 4-16 X 50 scope... :grin: I'ave had lots of quality outings with it...great shooting gun, try running Varget powder through it, the long barrel likes the slow burn...

[billc_sbio]

it seemed to me by looking at the psi hodgdon was publishing,with their loads they where on the very safe side of the sami max pressure.and approaching 4100fps

Yeah, that's a little "different", isn't it?! Makes you wonder...

Maybe with that tiny little hole in the case, adding just slightly more powder may cause the pressures to suddenly shoot way up there?

I'm thinking it's probably something like that. Otherwise, why quit early (and cautious) on the powders?!!

[skein]

Speaking of putting the powder in there, I've heard the case neck is so small a conventional powder funnel won't work - powder spills around the case neck. Somewhere I read how a guy fixed that problem. I'll bet those itty-bitty bullets are also pretty hard for some of us ham-fisted guys to hang on to. Shoot, sometimes I have trouble with my .222 and 40 grainers. Maybe I was born to load the .454 Casull! :grin:

Skein

[billc_sbio]

Speaking of putting the powder in there, I've heard the case neck is so small a conventional powder funnel won't work - powder spills around the case neck. Somewhere I read how a guy fixed that problem. I'll bet those itty-bitty bullets are also pretty hard for some of us ham-fisted guys to hang on to. Shoot, sometimes I have trouble with my .222 and 40 grainers. Maybe I was born to load the .454 Casull! :grin:

Skein

After loading .17 Javelina, .17 Remington, and finally .17 Saunders Jet-a cartridge based on the long tapered .22 Jet cases (a .357 Mag derivative) sized down to .17 cal, then blown out into a straight walled bottleneck ctg. (using an Aluminum .17 Funnel made by Saunders, or the one made by RCBS with the little .17 cal. red insert in it), loading .20 cal will be moving UP! :grin:

Yeah holding onto those rice grain size bullits is a real pain!

[billc_sbio]

Seems like everyone ignores the 22ppc or 6ppc. Both are very capable of dispatching varmints as well as paper. I have a couple of 6's and wouldn't trade them for anything.

Yes, those are really GREAT cartridges, and the rifles that are built to shoot them are almost always made of the "right stuff" for super accuracy!

However, most casual shooters don't even know WHAT they are. They take hard to find, and usually very EXPENSIVE brass, that's usually never found as loaded cartridges.

The difference in accuracy is enough to make it all worth while in the Benchrest shooting world, but not in the varmint hunting fields (unless you already HAVE all the stuff).

The "deal" that I have is my home range is often populated by the local law enforcement community, and, if I hit it just right on certain weekdays, I can show up right after they're all done shooting, and there will be there 1 or more cases (1,000+ rnd.s) of brand new, once fired, Federal MATCH .223 Brass, that they've policed up and left for whoever wants it (our tax $$ at work! ), and I do!

(I share it with my friends)

How good is that?!! :shocked: :grin:

When was the last time you walked up and FOUND 1,000+ rounds of once fired PPC Brass waiting to be taken home?

There's a GREAT reason to want a .223!

[StickFish]

StickFish, :shocked: Shooting yellow jackets off of your peanut butter! :shocked: I bow to your superior shooting skills.

To everyone, thanks for the responses. I hadn't even considered barrel twist, but certainly that can be as important, or more so, than the actual make of rifle you pick up.

It is nothing special - on a hot day at the range when the jackets are out put a couple dabs of peanut butter and jelly on your target and sit back and wait. When the get buzy with it they don't move much with you scope up on 20x they are not too hard to shoot. The trick is leaving the bullet hole ringed by jacket wings :smile:

What a hoot - the ultimate varmint target IMO

[Kalamanator]

.243 GET'ER DONE

[weekender]

If your going for a bolt action heavy barreled rifle and you want an all around varmint gun, I'd go for the 22-250. You can shoot anything from rats to yotes with it, it has minimal recoil and if you reload its only a couple cents a shell more than the 223.

I'm shooting a CZ550 with single set trigger and it is far and away the best shooting rifle I've ever shot. The single set trigger is awesome.

[billc_sbio]

Wow...let me really confuse you here.

Back when I first started Varmint Shooting, my 1st "serious" rifle was a .222. In fact I had to SEARCH for that .222 Sako Heavy Barrel because .223s were so prevalent, but I just KNEW I wanted a "Triple Deuce".

So, over the years several other varmint rifles have come and gone. Some of them have come and stayed.

Amongst them is my very 1st, but not quite so serious, a .22 Hornet in a Ruger #3 Single Shot, it's a "fun" 150 yard "carry" gun, I still have that.

Then, after the .222 there was a .22-250 in a rifle Winchester called a Varmint Rifle. I could never get it to shoot the way my .222 would and it went away.

However I still wanted one like it that was super-accurate, for long range. I went searching and thought I'd like to get a Remington 40X, guaranteed accuracy, but I couldn't find one available in .22-250. But there were some in .220 Swift that were available. Close enough, on with the .220 Swift.

It was and is as accurate as any varmint shooter could ever hope it could be. It's still around.

But I found that having the 2 rifles set up there side by side and ready to shoot. Using both of them for hunting Sage Rats out to about 230 yards, I'd almost always go to the .222 first (and most). Out past 250 yards, there's NO question, the .220 Swift (it could be a .22-250) always gets the nod!

Just wanting another one of those super-accurate 40Xs in something smaller I eventually ponied up for one in .223.

Now, that rifle AND the old .222 are still my favorites. I shoot 'em 10:1 on the bigger rifle. They're easier on brass and easier on the barrel, and the brass is easier to come by.

I don't want to say anything bad about the .22-250 or the .220 Swift (or the .243 Win. or 6mm Rem. or the PPCs). For long range Coyote shooting they would be BEST. But in close (250 yards and under) the .223 would still be my 1st choice all things taken into account.

BTW, my first .223 wasn't a "varmint" rifle, but rather a Sako Sporter, and it shot just about as well as my Heavy Barrel Sako in .222 Rem. It's a very accurate 250 yard carry gun and deadly on Rockchucks, Badgers, and Coyotes. I'll NEVER get rid of that rifle!

I was pleased enough with that that I decided to go ahead and get a big, heavy, .223 varmint dedicated rifle with some serious and powerful optics on it. That one's a keeper too and it's a toss up between that one and my original .222.

[jmcvo]

billc_sbio,
"One of each" is what my buddies tell me and it sounds as though yours do, too! :smile:

-jmcvo

[billc_sbio]

billc_sbio,
"One of each" is what my buddies tell me and it sounds as though yours do, too! :smile:

-jmcvo

Well...ya know, you've got to "experiment"...see if what they're all saying is really TRUE! :grin:

You know I have a few BIG guns, but besides the big Blackpowder Boomers, anything over .243 is really not that FUN to shoot a lot.

Centerfire .22s really are!

[weekender]

Lots of good points here. I think what you need to decide is which one you want to buy first.