Radar Reflector flags, Who wants em?

[Mr. Fisherman]

With talk about overnight trips and my experience in the fog with a broken motor this has been on my to get list for far too long.
They come in a variety of sizes and are proven technology.
So I am looking at setting up another group purchase if possible and would like to let the dealer know how many we would be interested in.
They retail forom about $80 (12X18)to $300 (36x60) depending on size. I think the one I am interested in falls in the $96 range (16X24).

So if you are serious about getting a radar reflector this is an EXCELLENT way to go. Please vote to let me know if you are willing to order in the next 60 days if we can save enough money to make it worth our while.

[Mr. Fisherman]

O.K., forgive the typos and the order I put the questions in.
This will provide the data needed to get it started or to decide to let us fend for ourselves.
Please post to let me know what you think.

From the website...

The RADAR FLAG signal was recognizable 360º at full circle from 4 miles by my Fuerno." — Capt. Brad Mutcher, 'The Getaway', Pompano Beach, Florida

Used by the United States Military in Operation Desert Storm.

Meets U.S. Coast Guard requirements under S.O.L.A.S (Safety Of Life At Sea) 74/83.

"The RADAR FLAG would be of use to anyone having a boat with poor reflective qualities. It serves the purpose intended". — Florida State Pilots Assocation

"All models of the RADAR FLAG were fully visible on radar at 4 miles." — Capt. B.R. Gartenhaus, Lic. #239951 USCG — Capt. Don Coney, Lic #218455 USCG — Capt. Frank Reynolds, Lic. #271267 USCG

"Your flag withstood 45-50 knot winds and delivered the radar signature promised". — Capt. Arne Glasgow, 'S.V. Sonja'.

"Your flag proved more reliable and efficient than the Firdell Blipper". — Capt. Juan Corradi, New York, NY

"The RADAR FLAG gives the equivalent signal as a ten square meter metal sheild as tested with the assistance of the Raytheon Engineers." — True Wind Engineering, Milwaukee, WI

"Flying the RADAR FLAG, we were a strong target at 13 miles." — Capt. D. Jepsen, Huntington Beach, C

[KeyWest]

Do you have a link to what we are talking about here? I just bought a conventional reflector to mount temporarily while running at night and in the fog.

[fish assassin]

If'n your boat is made out of old soup cans (or even beer cans) you don't even NEED
a radar reflector ...

~assAssin~

[kamloops]

Dean

Bout all I see of your craft at night has been running lights as you pass me going 40knts. But,,,,
Pretty sure I have seen your signature, even though I run
Ray Marine gear, but it ain't me that matters, it's the big slabs that I worry about.
last year on one of those live bait stops going past Hammond at 3:30 in the am and fog, on the way into the Ilwaco channel, I heard the fog horn of an inbound slab at about buoy 22. He knew I was there but I could not see him.
Sure glad his radar was operational.

[Mr. Fisherman]

Juat because they see you don't mean they can or will stop or avoid you

I was very surprised when I was limping in on my kicker outside Depoe Bay to have such a hard time meeting up with the Black Rocket. K.J. has an open array on that beast and I had given him my exact location and updated it about every 5 mins. We passed each other several times in the fog and lost each other several times even though we both had radar working. It was very humbeling. I could still make out the buoys and the 47' motor lifeboat though .
I have had this product in the back of my mind since then. I'll pay retail for it if I have to but with the success of the PLB group buy I thought what the heck. One more for the Gipper before my wife makes me surrender the credit cards, check book and disconnects me from the internet...

[kamloops]

Ray

That was kind of the reason for my post. My boat is proly just marginal enough for the big guys to know I'm there. The smaller boats, these guys can't see you period.....

And make no mistake about it, they ain't going to stop or alter course, they can't even if they wanted to.
On the Columbia their restricted to the channel and it takes many miles to slow down. If your in a collision with one of them, they ain't even going to know they ran you over and they ain't going to stop if they did.

Another thing, don't drive in the dark without a radar and knowledge of how to use it.

[id. painter]

I would be interested in getting one,,, ifin I need it .
Will I show up with my 20 ft. Alum. boat ????
F.A. Do I show up well on the big boats radar , because Im a beer can boat ?
Does height have anything to do with it? id. p.

[saltwater only]

How are these different than the reflector ball and how are they mounted?

[OceanBlue]

Ray, if you're referring to radarflag (the company, can be found by adding a .com at the end), be careful.

there is a review (alright, so it was done in 1995) that shows that the flag works great if it is mounted flat or is unfurled (oooh, big wind need for that), but draped, as it would be hanging from a staff -

See the review here: Radar Reflector Review

Maybe something has changed since the review... I'll dig a little further if I get a chance today.

[royalfish]

I too worry about the big slabs on the CR and doubt that I show up on their screen. It would be a little comforting to know you are visible to other craft, particularly if you are in a situation as described above. So my questions is, How do you mount these flags so you can be seen?
Thanks Kevin

[Nalu]

Odd what will pick up and what won't. Last year out tuna fishing in the fog I was able to pick up Noriverdave's Pursuit (and others)with no problem on my Furuno. Trolling along I was easily able to tell my crew, "we have a boat about ready to become visable off the port bow."

[fish assassin]

Will I show up with my 20 ft. Alum. boat ????
F.A. Do I show up well on the big boats radar , because Im a beer can boat ?
Does height have anything to do with it? id. p.

I'm not real sure. I know that my boat appears to be very large on the radar because it
is such a good reflector. Back in the old days when I fished a dory I had aluminum
outrigger poles (big ones for a commercial boat) and was told that I showed up on
radar real well ... and the boat was glass over wood. Best advice I have for you is to
have somebody with a radar look at you and tell you how good of a radar signature you
make. I suspect you'll be just fine.

~assAssin~

[ron m]

Good discussion. Hadn't thought of it before, but now I'll ask sometime how well my "beer can" shows up on radar. I think it will show up well 'cause it's all aluminum and the top is at least 6 ft above wateerline. Be good to know though.
ron m

[id. painter]

Thanks FA.
This summer Ill stop and introduce myself , if your not to busy. id.p

[Phil Layer]

I checked out the radar reflectors at my favorite store in Newport. They sell for $35.

They need a fairly substantial mast to mount to, however. I don't think they will last long on an antenna.

[fish assassin]

Thanks FA.
This summer Ill stop and introduce myself , if your not to busy. id.p

Never too busy to talk to my Ifish buddies!!

~assAssin~

[Mark Mc]

Comment # 1....Thanks Ray for taking the initiative on this subject.

Comment # 2....For something this important I think folks should do a little homework first. Not to discount anything Ray has done, but very little evidence / data was presented here.

This is a good place to start:

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Stud...ector_test.htm

"Read it & weep", as they say.

One other thing....last summer at the rockpile a small aluminum boat (appx 22 ft) was completely invisible to my radar, a higher-power Furuno.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks for the link Mark

I think I would build 2 of the octahedral reflectors, mount one in catch rain mode and one in double catch rain mode and hope they can see me.

Wouldnt take much material or time to make either of them.

[ron m]

Thanks for the link. Interesting that they concluded with the best defense is a good offense. The big ships might not see us well, be IF we have radar, we can sure see them. Makes a good case for havng radar on board.
ron m

[Mr. Fisherman]

Interesting reading.. I have read it before.
One of my C-Dory buddies got one and it dramatically improved his return.
After my experience at Depoe I think more of something is better than nothing.
I likly have a better signature since adding the rocket launcher but I have not proven it.
I don't have money to throw away but it may eb a step in teh right direction.

As with the PLB, decide for yourself and if it is something you want anyway adn we can get a group deal it is a good thing.
I am in no way trying to advocate any product or service.
I am jyst thinking that when I am out there, a tupperware bown in the bowles of the cat I am gonna want every possible advantage.
who knows, maybe their best offer is retail and all this won't matter.

[Mark Mc]

Ray, could you tell us what brand & model you are looking at?

Thanks again,

MArk

p.s. The referenced study said that the flag reflectors they tested only worked if it was draped perpendicular to the radar signal. When it turned sideways to it, it was completely invisible. That's why I'm curious what design you are talking about. Maybe technology has improved?

p.p.s. Commercial longliners & trap fishermen still use the traditional metal / right angle reflectors on their anchor buoys.

[Mr. Fisherman]

It is the one Ocean Blue is refering to.

[Mr. Fisherman]

Here is the response I got...

Hello Ray,
Thank you for your inquiry. It is important to note that we are a small company that has been making Radar Flags by hand for twenty years. We have always kept our margin close and kept the quality that is well known by blue water sailors. The best deal I can think of for your proposition would be a 20% discount in quantities of 25-50 units of the two smallest sizes. We can offer 30% discount on the three larger sizes in quantities of 25-50 units. I hope this is of some help to you in your efforts to provide quality products to your clients.
Dave Todd
President
Radar Flag Co.

So... Unless we want 25 or more we get no deal.
Let me know. I will leave the poll up for a couple of weeks.

Ray

[Triple C]

Well folks from looking at the various test conducted, it
looks like the best performance is received by using the
multi surface devices. They appear to give a larger cross section. I was thinking could you take one of the 9" or 12"
reflector balls and mount it to the butt section of an old fishing rod and stick in the rocket launcher. That would put
the ball above your radar plane and fiberglass rod should not interfere with radar return. It would be a good idea this summer when were running for tuna to time a little time
to see just what kind of radar picture our various boats return. My radar is supposed to be good out to 16 nat. miles and I would be interested in knowing what kind of return my boat sends back

[Phil Layer]

Triple C,

I think you have the right idea. But, you'd best use an old halibut or sturgeon rod as the ball could get whipping pretty good at throttle.

[Triple C]

What do you think the radar signature of 3/4" pvc would be?
I can make it tall enough to mount the reflector and install
my Salty Dog burgee.