Dusky Quota on SI Public Lands....

[Lured In]

As labsforme pointed out in the previous post, yes they have ALREADY, in just 2 hunt days, filled the 5 bird dusky quota for the Wildlife Area. After a closer investigation of the numbers, I realized that at most 27 geese were taken in those two days. At least 3 of the 12 birds taken yesterday were not geese (perhaps swans as Labsforme pointed out. They probably had mistaken it for one of those rare Great Basin Albino Snow Geese with no black on the wings and the size of a flying VW Bug).

WHAT THE **** ARE THESE GUYS SHOOTING AT!!!!!!!!

How can we possibly have a hunting season where every 5th bird taken is a dusky!?! Now I realize conditions can be nasty and sometimes it is not easy to see the color of the breast, but get real...if you can't tell what it is...don't shoot!

I spoke with Mark with ODFW out there this afternoon and he had mentioned that of the 5 dusky's taken, 3 were taken by hunters who were hunting alone. But that doesn't explain why two other "groups" allowed one of their s******* to poke at a questionable bird.

Forgive me for jumping on the soap box and throwing stones and all, but come on, TWO DAYS! How is it that most of the other counties manage to make until the end of the hunt period before approaching their quota with more hunter/days and more harvested legal birds?

My only conclusion can be that there is a higher percentage of less ethical goose hunters who choose to hunt on the SI Public Lands (35 hunters harvested at total of 28 birds including 5 duskys and a swan). If this ratio were true for all counties, the season would never last longer than a day or two. When will folks pull their heads out and realize they are literally stealing hunting opportunities from others with their poor shot selection.

The flip side of this is that once the quota is met, hunting is no longer an option for controlling the goose populations or depredation of agricultural lands when those areas close. Depredation may not be an issue for private leases managed for hunting geese, but I would be PO'd if I payed $$$$ for quality hunting and a few yahoos closed the county down. I would venture to say that in spite of the higher quota for SI Private Lands, that because of the money paid out for a lease, those hunters are VERY careful in their shot selection.

Now I am speaking of the NW Goose zone in general. It is my opionion it is up to each of us that hunt in this zone take personal responsibility for keeping the counties and hunt areas open. Practice restraint and don't risk taking away the season from the rest of our fellow hunters who are working hard to ensure we get our opportunity as well.

It is not my intent to put down anyone in specific or those that hunt geese at Oak Island, like so many other things a few bad apples can spoil a bunch. The statistics though are hard for me to choke down.

[willametteriveroutlaw]

I am sorry for all of you guys that are limited to hunting suavies for geese. There are many farmers in the La center-woodland wa. area that will allow Hunters on there land if you ask. Also Here in the valley, I rarely ever get turned down if I ask permission to hunt geese on their land. In fact I have a few farmers that will loan me there 4 wheelers to set out decoys with. ( this information is only for the ethical goose hunters) For all of the dusky shooting yahoos, Theres no open land in the valley. i got christmas break coming up, and don't want my quota filled yet. and as for the guy who shot the swan.. Why would you take that to the check station? Anyways do the grass farmers a favor and swing on down here. If anyone has there card and wants to go slay a few of those pesky geese drop me an email. I can also steer a few of you in a the direction of some good places.

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: wilamatteriveroutlaw ]</p>

[MoJet Driver]

This is simply why I refer to it (the public areas) as "Sloppy Island". "Sloppy Hunter Island" is just too long to say.

It is a shame, when you add it all together. Lousy callers that are intent on tooting their horn, skybusters and stupid goose hunters. Last year I saw a guy with a nice duck boat inside the refuge boundry off of Malarky. What next?

The show is starting to become the "ghetto" of waterfowling. A real shame.

[Lured In]

WRO fortunately I am also not limited to hunting at SI. We have permission to hunt a place out in Forrest Grove, but that is not the point. The point is that this shouldn't be happening on public or private lands. BTW I am always looking for a good place to chase the honkers, but I have not done any leg work down in the Salem/Akeny area. I'll drop you an email.

MoJet I would agree that things are getting discouraging out there. I am to the point that I will not hunt mornings unless I have a reservation for a unit that I can get away from people in. Its really too bad as the hunting can be superb when people let the birds work and are courteous to those around them.

[Flathead]

Maybe its because the refuge is to easy to hunt. Any swinging ****, well you know what I mean, can just show up, wait in line, and draw a number. There is no work to it. No preseason scouting, no asking for permission, helping the land owner, etc., etc.,. Just like any sport, be it basketball, football, baseball... waterfowl hunting takes practice and study. Most of us who have been doing this awhile work at it and therefore respect the privelege. Speaking for myself I take as much pleasure in studying the birds, shot shell ballistics, decoy sets, conservation measures, etc. It's not all about killing the birds. Watching a flock of birds working a well located, well placed spread with good calling is one of the most exciting and beautiful things to see in the outdoors. MoJet and I have had more fun watching geese come into our spread and land and walk around in it. The fun in this sport is when you've done everything right, field/pond selection, decoy spread, calling, camo, blind placement, etc.. and the birds come whistling in and cup there wings, feet down, "take em boys"!!!!!!

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Morons aren't limited to the refuge though. One time last season sticks out in mind alot. we were set up above windsor slough on the wilamatte. Me and my hunting partners scouted out this weird little patch of water whare people usually don't hunt, but ther birds are usually there. Anyways, It was about mid morning and we were watching this boat slowly motor down the river above us. When all of a flock of Turkey ducks (cormorants) starts flying about 60 yards above them. All 4 guys in the boat stand up and open fire. We couldn't really tell how many fell, but at least a couple. Then soon after they spotted our decoys and the chase was on. They had 3 guys standing in the front of the boat shotguns ready as they charged full boar into our spread. By the time they figured out that our dekes weren't ducks, there prop figured on becoming a rototiller. They all fell on there a** in the boat and made a hasty retreat. we saw them at the launch. Needless to say they were very proud of the 9 geese they killed . I figured the jokes on them though the instant they try to eat them geese. The moral of the story is that don't all you suavy island guys think you have the corner on the moron market :whazzup: .

[Tilla]

Waterfowl hunting is a very difficult sport. Very few are really good at it. I can see the look on those hunters faces one or two days into the season when those big Duskies come floatin' right on top of them like they never seen before,ooohhh,.... do they check close..... take a chance..... pass up a chance......blow it..... they might be heroes walking in the door with those big geese. Heck, it might be the first time they seen geese up close!. THEY'RE GONNA SHOOT! It's just human nature. Not an excuse by any means. Just look around you in line. They got dat look!
As for private land quotas, no one wants the stigma of being branded, a lot of peer pressure and it will follow you for years. And just in case ...I'll remind you.

[MoJet Driver]

Am I wrong? I just have no tolerance for "moronics". Especially when you can buy a video to show you how to do it right. Even TRY to practice to some conservation here. All it takes is a little concentration and history can be changed.

I'd never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but tighten the noose on state public shooting areas. Summer Lake would be a better place without a 7 day a week shooting season.... HELLOOOOO.... If we can't police the ranks within; then we give way to the bios and complain about the restrictions. I for the life of me cannot understand why the state has not imposed a shotshell restriction on public lands.

I'm p!ssed and I've had one two many shots, so I'm outa here.

[Flathead]

AMEN, MOJET!!!!

[Salmonator]

Outlaw, I have 17 days off from mid december through the first week in january. I can't call worth a darn but I can pack dekes and can hit a bird (most of the time). If I can get away for a day or two and you have room i'd love to go. Now I just have to find where I stuck that punchcard at months ago

[Bounty Hunter]

Man I can't believe this is happening. I realize Suavie's isn't the best place to hunt geese, but it sure was convenient. My buddy and I got our NW goose cards and hunted the island as rookies. We learded a lot about goose hunting on the island, but we never had to shoot a dusky to do it! Guess what the kind of geese the first flock of birds that landed in out dekes were? Not saying I'm any better than these guys, but come on...and a SWAN TOO!
Well I am going to have to keep knocking on the doors now, or get more serious about the Lewis and Clark.
WRO or anyone else looking for another worker/hunter, I've got my card, 50 shells, and I can blow on call like heck, so let me know if you want to invite along another ifisher.
Good luck to everyone wherever you can shoot 'em.

[birdhunter]

Guys - Just hunt the other side of I-5. You aren't done yet. Don't have to worry about duskys and there are still plenty of geese. Don't have to take any tests or check in/out anywhere. Also don't have to worry about closures. Mostly those big Great Basin too, not cacklers. Tons of fields out towards Estacada that have geese in them. Columbia river is also a really good bet. I've always done all my goose hunting on the east side and while I'm not a champion caller either, I kill more than my share of the big birds. Give it a go, or at least lear some new territory.

[Tilla]

Mojet, you are not wrong. Well except I actually like eatin' Ruddy Not that I'm sayin' I ever shot one. But unless we hold refresher classes in line, it's gonna be fairly difficult. There are gonna be duskys shot. We had a club member shoot a gray belly last year, about 4 of us all saw it,there would be no hesitation on anybodys part, but the beak was 43 mm and he got his card pulled. It also had a band, we figured we could prove the Dept. wrong. Well as it turned out the city it was banded from overlooks the Copper River delta :shocked: . But, that is the exception out of 150 +- geese we get. Now the swans, that's another matter....

[Tilla]

Oh and I forgot to take my shot at the Marion co. boys, you're not far behind getting shut down as usual. Any Bets?

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Hey now, at least to my best knowledge no one has turned in a swan. Damn them migrating S/I skyblasters, The first thing they do after visiting their Brother in prision is shoot duskys in the prision lawn. Some guys get a kick out of shooting Red neck collared duskys because its a trophy. I think the penalty for scr***ng the rest of us out of our hunting should A much tougher test to re obtain their card, and A mandatory year off goose hunting in the zone. Thank god I still have polk county.

[Fishalot]

I have to agree with Flathead on S-I being just a little to easy.The reason there is so much sky busting is 3/4 the hunters and I use that word lightly , are shooting at birds the real hunters are calling in. Some people just can't let a duck fly by with out taking a poke at it. Now with the spinning wing decoys the same hunters can spend money instead of learning how to use their calls and the result is they are still depending on the better hunters to get the birds on the lake for them. I have seen so much rule breaking out on the public area. On race track one time these 2 hunters were walking back onto the refuge and shooting, I told them they were hunting inside the no hunt zone, they kept doing it. Then when they left they shot at every duck as they walked around the lake. The fish & wildlife told me next time come tell us and we will do something about it. There was a hunter that over heard me talking and told them he had hunted Race track and would back up every thing I had told them. We wanted them to send the 2 morons a citation, no we can't do that. The two hunters I am talking about are the same people that shoot the swans and the first Canada Goose they see.

Well I talked to long, but thats not uncommon.
Fishalot :grin:

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Fishalot ]</p>

[MoJet Driver]

Wow, I just realized that they shot the whole quota for the the entire year! Talk about taking a dump in your bed and having to sleep in it.

WRO, good point on the year off thing, if you bag a dusky. At the least, they should have to pass a harder test. Flathead and I know one idiot that took the test 3 times before he passed it. Dedicated waterfowler? I think not.

Tilla, I ain't going to bet you on Marion county, anyone else that would might as well send you the money now! :grin: :grin:

[Tilla]

WRO- If only them Marion Co geese would stay put at the water treatment facility

[Lured In]

WRO I too think that having to take a year off might not be a bad idea either, but be careful what you wish for. As Tilla pointed out good hunters make "mistakes". What I mean by mistakes is that theoretically a "gray" goose could have the right color but the wrong bill length. Like with the guy Tilla was speaking of I do not believe that they should have pulled his card. Last time I checked it was impossible to measure the bill length of a goose "on the wing". For biologist bill length is critical as it adds an additional differentiating factor for species identification. When I was studying for my test 4 years ago, that very scenario Tilla mentioned crossed my mind. I do not believe that a hunter should have his card pulled for a goose that is not the "color" of a dusky regardless of bill length. That type of ID is impossible and anyone who says otherwise is off their rocker.

My vote for a change is the regs would be that any hunter that shoots a dusky that has the right color gets their card pulled for thier entire next season. If you shoot a "dusky" that is not the identifiable color of a dusky, but has the appropraite bill length, do not pull the hunters card, but count the goose against the dusky quota.

While on the subject of color and bill length why do they even let you shoot a Vancouver? I consider myself a very observant hunter and I don't think I could tell the difference between a dusky flying and a vancouver flying in spite of the small size difference. To me all that does is set up an additional level of complexity that can only encourage hunters to make a very subjective judgement on bird size when color is nearly equal. My motto is if its a "dark" bird or if it is flying with "dark" birds don't shoot.

That goes for tav's, lessers, and even cackler's flying with duskys or vice versa. One stray piece of shot and bye bye card.

[MoJet Driver]

Lured,

When the "permit" hunt began, I heard of a guy that got his card yanked for shooting a Vancouver. The old "bill over 50mm" rule didn't hold then. They may have re-evaluated their position on this since, but I'm not one to hit the press-to-test on that. I like having my card.

Like you, if it is dark, Flathead and I ignore them. Unless the bird has no neck, flaps its wings like a duck and sounds like Pee Wee Herman, then we go with "It's a cackler" rule. I can't tell you how many tavs and lessers we've let live another day due to paranoia. I also agree with your point of honest hunters making honest mistakes. I haven't experienced it, but a buddy of mine that hunted snows down in Louisiana told me he had the bird BEHIND the one he was shooting at fall. I have had it happen with ducks though. And who's to say it was the "golden BB"? It could have been the foolish think had a heart attack from the noise. :grin: :tongue: :shocked:

Still, what happened out there sounded like the perps couldn't tell a goose from a cormorant.

Agreed; that there is always the other side to the story. It would be good if we could hear it from them, if they are not too embarassed to tell it.

Questions for all: How does bill length determine subspecies? Is a juvenile late hatch bird like a resident great basin then considered a lesser.

Sounds like a sorting process to me and not really science to determine harvest. I mean, do Duskys really not cross to the east side of I-5? Was that really a tav and not an Aluetian with a small neck ring? So many questions...

[birdhunter]

Pop quiz: When is a dusky not a dusky?

A: When it is on the east side of I-5. This coming from the head of OSP wildlife division, Capt. Kok. To be sure dusky's cross I-5. I've seen them over here a couple of times. But you could limit out on them and be perfectly within the law. They will not cite you for killing a dusky east of I-5. You can shoot any goose you want! (Not sea-geese BOE. No tricky cormorant names) I don't know that very many are taken, as the bulk of the population stays far to the west of I-5, but it is something to think about.

Ruddy ducks are okay too.

[Labsforme]

Lure-in, bill length is is only part of the picture,color also is part of the criteria they use in determining whether it is legal or not.Yesterday got a bird that had a culmen measured at 42mm,but bright breast=Lesser.Have had
darker gray birds counted as Lessers too,but it can be subjective as to who's at the check station
too.So as all have said if you can't determine without doubt,pass it up.It's a long season.The
wildlife area may be closed next year and the allocation go to another area.

[Lured In]

BH be careful how you phrase that, as that is not entirely true. The NW Permit Zone crosses I-5 goint west to east at 22 in Salem and stays east of I-5 down to the N Santiam river and then back to I-5 all the way to Eugene. You are correct, shoot all the dusky's you want on the Columbia and Clack and Willamette outside the zone. After all the geese have read the regs right?

Truth be told, I haven't seen any duskys on the Columbia east of 205 where I usually hunt and can't recall seeing one anywhere on the Will-armpit (Willamette for those with no sense of humor) just south of the narrows down to Newberg while duck hunting.

[Tilla]

Uh, I thought that all that training we went through that they were drumming into us never to intentionally shoot a Dusky.
I am not sure they were zone specific.
I have to agree with some of you about how the identification of a dark bird has really made goose hunting not as fun. Poor light conditions have saved a lot of birds from being shot. Some of the guys I hunt with use binoculars to ID them on the wing as they approach. But still, you are always a bit nervous when pulling the trigger. The generous cackler limit has had a lot to do with easing up on the Duskys. If they are small and they squeek, it's cool.

[Lured In]

Tilla I would have to agree with you that my convictions would not allow me to knowingly shoot a dusky even outside the zone. But as I said, I haven't seen any there. The other side of that story is that because no ID Test is required guys like BH are blasting away at dusky's that think they are Ruddy's! :tongue:

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Lured In ]</p>

[willametteriveroutlaw]

The marion county situation is pretty bad. I can even understand how people can make mistakes. The best rule is that if you can't identify it don't shoot. One good way to practice is to go down to a local refuge with all of you paper work in hand and watch them fly. There are a heck of alot of duskys in this area. I generally have at least a couple of groups work at any given time I hunt. I know that people can make mistakes but I am going to stick with my origional stand point that if you shoot a dusky, you take a season off of the zone. I know a couple of the check station guys down here will let it slide if its a light bird and will just count it towards the total and not pull your card. The best way to tell, at least for me is to look at there wings while they are flying. The scary thing is that if you hunt in the keizer area on the eastside. In the right field you can easily kill 3 or 4 duskys a trip, but only 1 cackler can be taken... Go figure. :whazzup:

[MoJet Driver]

WRO,

You are right. Can't tell; don't shoot. Questions?

Is munching on a honker that important? If yes; Try beef. Add spices that cause it to taste "out-of-state".

No sky too high, no M()ff too tough.