Take Action - Protect Arctic Nat'l Wildlife Refuge

5 Salt · 04-01-2005, 06:00 AM

Take Action to Proctect the Arctic Refuge Now
Your help is needed to stop Arctic Drilling.

Despite overwhelming public opposition, on March 16th, the U.S. Senate voted 49 to 51 against an amendment sponsored by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Washington) to strip a provision from the Senate budget resolution that incorporates revenues gleaned from oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, taking us one more step toward opening up the Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas leasing and drilling.

Action Alert
Find out how your Senator voted, and send them your opinion on protecting the Arctic.

Cheers

fish_on · 04-01-2005, 06:57 AM

I fully support drilling for oil in the Arctic Nat'l Wildlife Refuge. I hope to see that black gold flowing ASAP!

5 Salt · 04-01-2005, 07:16 AM

Fish-on

I'm all for lower fuel prices and more oil in the US. But is it an established fact the oil from that field will net $3.25 per gallon at the pump...what is the point of that?

There is no shortage of cheap oil only a shortage of refinery capacity in the US - specifically the Western US. I paid $1.95 per gallon yesterday in Houston for Plus grade gasoline.

Either way, thanks for sharing your viewpoint.

5-Salt Fever

alanmikkelsen · 04-01-2005, 07:30 AM

I'm one of the few people in the world who have spent a lot of time on ANWR. I have flown, hiked, camped and hunted a lot of it. Having said that, I have seen first hand that development can take place in a manner that will not have a significant impact on the environment or wildlife. I support ANWR drilling.

reeldick · 04-01-2005, 07:35 AM

Have you taken a good look at what you want to protect? There is nothing there. The few animals that migrate through there will adapt to the drilling just fine, they did at other north slope sites. It is a vast nothingness.
Why not spend our time and energy protecting areas that have something to offer.

Snug 2 · 04-01-2005, 07:38 AM

Right on... Fish on, reeldick & Alan. I am with you on this one. (excuse my spelling-I do not have spell check on this computer)

5 Salt, I am not trying to pick a fight. Have you ever been to ANWR? If so, you know how vast it is. If not, you have no clue to the vastness. I have been up there and into the pretrolium reserve west of ANWR as well. The amount of land they plan on using for the drilling is a small fraction of land up there. The animals that might be displaced is also only a fraction of the entire herds in the area. Too many people that will never go there, and in a lot of cases have no clue about it create so much of the noise that the rest of us must listen to. I am not saying that about you since we do not know each other. I am focusing that on my neighbors who like to pick at me for hunting and fishing, yet they do not recycle nor compost their waste like we do.

The oil production will not begin for 8-10 years and it will be limited at best. Your comments about refinery capacity is right on. We are at near capacity right now and with our domestic regulations, there will be no chance in heck that we will ever get another refinery opened up in the US. This then shifts the focus more towards international sources once again. Mexico, China, and Venesuela all have excess refinery capacity.

We should worry less about domestic production and focus our attention to the powers that be in Wash. DC that seem to want to limit alternative fuel sources (wind, solar, fuel cells). Let's get the same tax breaks for the small "new" industry developers as we have for big oil.

Enough of my soap box. I am off to hike Dog. Mt. in the gorge in the rain.

And if you want to kick my butt, I will be in Houston on Wed. evening.

Andrew "Snug 2" Lewis

5-Cents · 04-01-2005, 07:40 AM

Drill on... it's about time we start using some of our own resources.

yukon · 04-01-2005, 07:41 AM

Drill it. [political rant edited as per the rule posted at the top of the forum board - cb] Before you go and get your oil based fleece in a bunch and crawl out of your oil based nylon tent and drink that water out of your oil based plastic bottle think about how much you use oil based products every day.
As you can tell this is a sore subject with me and most Alaskans. My rant is not intended solely at the origninal poster but to all those who are not fully educated on the subject and want to tell us how to do things.
People are using the same arguements today as they did in the 70's about drilling. Since drilling the caribou heard has tripled and oil still flows down the pipeline and now they will soon be building a natural gas pipeline so you can heat your home.
Does anyone know what the limit for caribou is on the North Slope where they currently drill is. 10 caribou per person, per day, and the season is open 365 days a year. Do you think the caribou population is hurting???
Would you rather they go and drill Russia where they lose 20% of their oil between point A and point B and have very lax regulations?
I understand I probably won't change anyones mind but hey, its worth a shot!
Thanks for letting me vent!!!

El-Kabong · 04-01-2005, 07:42 AM

Thanks for the Info 5-Salt. This ANWR scam is a joke and shoudl be stopped. The amount of oil there is insignificant and the damage to the environment will be too much.

We can't drill our way out of depleting oil supplies. We need to shift the subsidies from oil production/consumption to developing other sources for power.

EK

uhmw · 04-01-2005, 08:22 AM

I lived in delta juction and watched the pipline go in. It was such a welcome economic development for the comunity and when they were done it left a few good paying jobs for the folks in the sticks at the pump stations. the pipe line never lived up to all the dooms day predictions and the area it runs through is just as wild as it ever was. maybe some of our returning troops could find a good paying job as a pipe line worker after fighting a costly war in part, to defend our oil dependancy in the middle east.

yukon · 04-01-2005, 08:27 AM

Right on uhmw!!!

luguando · 04-01-2005, 08:38 AM

I know this isn't a fishing topic but since we expressing our opinions.... I respectfully disagree with the statement that there's no shortage of cheap oil out there. Have you read any information on the depletion rates of our oil reserves as well as those at most other oil fields? I think we should drill at ANWR just for that reason and I agree with EL Kabong that we should be pursuing alternative energy sources.

bulldog · 04-01-2005, 08:39 AM

Drill !

alwyze fishin · 04-01-2005, 09:23 AM

dril drill and drill

OwyheeKIller · 04-01-2005, 09:26 AM

Anyone who thinks the oil industry will not harm the environment needs to get their head examined, either that or stop watching Fox news.

Do you remember March 24th, 1989? 11 million gallons of oil spilled into our waters, covering our coastlines, killing countless numbers of birds, fish and mammals. Guess how much Exxon paid for the damage done? Nada, zip, zero, not one red cent.

The truth is drilling in ANWR will take place. Oil companies will get filthy rich, and the little money kicked down to Alaskans will be just a drop in the bucket.

yukon · 04-01-2005, 09:44 AM

That oil spill was one of the best things that happened to Alaska. Exxon has paid plent and will pay more. There have been thousands of acres bought and protected with the Exxon money. To say that they haven't paid is the most unbelieveable thing I have heard in a long time.
The spill also brought us out of a severe ressesion. We have had economic growth in our state since the spill. I am not suggesting a spill to spur economic development but that is exactly what happened.
Here is a link for you to read, I just found it with a simple google search in about 10 seconds.

http://www.loe.org/series/exxon/silver.htm

I know Molly and believe me she does not watch fox news.
I will thank you in advance for your retaction for your quote: "Guess how much Exxon paid for the damage done? Nada, zip, zero, not one red cent."

Gun Rod Bow · 04-01-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

I'm one of the few people in the world who have spent a lot of time on ANWR. I have flown, hiked, camped and hunted a lot of it. Having said that, I have seen first hand that development can take place in a manner that will not have a significant impact on the environment or wildlife. I support ANWR drilling.

Wow, info from someone who actually knows what's there

Nothing like sitting at a computer 2,000 miles away and passing judgement.

Anyone remember when they were talking about how the "pipeline" would melt the permafrost, the caribou would stop migrating...

Guess what, safe reliable resource transportation. If we had a pipeline all the way from Valdez to Anacortez, there wouldn't be any shipping.

DRILL!

reeldick · 04-01-2005, 10:05 AM

They paid a little.
What was the settlement with Exxon? The settlement among the State of Alaska, the United States government and Exxon was approved by the U.S. District Court on October 9, 1991. It resolved various criminal charges against Exxon as well as civil claims brought by the federal and state governments for recovery of natural resource damages resulting from the oil spill. The settlement had three distinct parts:

Criminal Plea Agreement. Exxon was fined $150 million, the largest fine ever imposed for an environmental crime. The court forgave $125 million of that fine in recognition of Exxon�s cooperation in cleaning up the spill and paying certain private claims. Of the remaining $25 million, $12 million went to the North American Wetlands Conservation Fund and $13 million went to the national Victims of Crime Fund.

Criminal Restitution. As restitution for the injuries caused to the fish, wildlife, and lands of the spill region, Exxon agreed to pay $100 million. This money was divided evenly between the federal and state governments.

Civil Settlement. Exxon agreed to pay $900 million with annual payments stretched over a 10-year period. The final payment was received in September 2001. The settlement contains a "reopener window" between September 1, 2002 and September 1, 2006, during which the governments may make a claim for up to an additional $100 million. The funds must be to restore resources that suffered a substantial loss or decline as a result of the oil spill, the injuries to which could not have been known or anticipated by the six trustees from any information in their possession or reasonably available to any of them at the time of the settlement (September 25, 1991).

Ragnar · 04-01-2005, 10:14 AM

I'll give you all something to DRILL!

I cannot belive you people.
I am absolutely disgusted!

Let me just say, I can forsee some very bad things happening as result of this...

Viva Revolution!

"It's gotta stop sometime.
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"

I shake my head and rub my eyes in disbelief.

This makes Ragnar very angry.

dragon67 · 04-01-2005, 10:24 AM

I don't think we should drill just on the fact that we depend too much on oil. We should find other sourse of energy to get off our oil habit, like solar,wind, and water. There has to be better ways, plus I just don't like us depending on other countries for oil, even though we have enough in our own country. I think the goverment should help out and give tax breaks for electric cars, and solar panels for your house, maybe a windmill in the back yard. I know it cost money but if everyone did it, the kids of tomorrow would have a cleaner world. Just my two cents.

Cloud-Nine · 04-01-2005, 10:25 AM

Every Alaska resident gets $1800 per year from it. That's a little more than a drop in the bucket.
Dick

Ragnar · 04-01-2005, 10:34 AM

Yeah!
And we can stop invading these countries that have the oil, and killing innocent people including our own young poeple all for some oil.

We are killing people for oil.
Did you ever stop to think about that?

Ragnar

Gun Rod Bow · 04-01-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Yeah!
And we can stop invading these countries that have the oil, and killing innocent people including our own young poeple all for some oil.

We are killing people for oil.
Did you ever stop to think about that?

Ragnar

This has to do with fishing how?

Take it to LIG

blacktail519 · 04-01-2005, 10:47 AM

Let er flow!!!!!!

OwyheeKIller · 04-01-2005, 10:48 AM

Forgive me, what I meant to say was that Exxon has not paid one red cent in punitive damages for which they were initially ordered to pay 5 billion. That's significantly more than the 900 million settlement in the civil charges.

On September 16, 1994, a jury in federal court returned a $5 billion punitive damages verdict against Exxon. The company, however, has appealed several times since that time; on August 4, 1998, the Anchorage Daily News reported that:

Apparently, delay pays. Exxon is earning $90,000 an hour, about $2 millon a day or nearly $800 million a year, on the same $5 billion as long as the case drags on and the money stays in its coffers. As it stands now, if the appeals linger a couple of more years, Exxon will have earned enough interest alone to pay the $5 billion plus the accrued interest.
The $5 billion verdict was finally overturned by a panel of the 9th Circuit Court in November 2001.

Even though it took seven years of appeals, the attorneys for Exxon managed to save the oil giant from paying one red cent in punitive damages. Having a good team of lawyers is how Exxon remains the most profitable company in the world.

I've included some links in case anyone's interested in reading for themselves.
Explore North
CBS News

Fox News

reeldick · 04-01-2005, 10:48 AM

The fishing is pretty poor in ANWR!

OwyheeKIller · 04-01-2005, 11:07 AM

The $1800 comes from the permanent fund. It has'nt come from ANWR at least not yet. And in my opinion it is a drop in the bucket when you consider the amount of money we are talking about here.

But here's a question. Do you feel Alaskans deserve a check for $1800 just because they live Alaska? Do you consider that welfare?

FinFansea · 04-01-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

We can't drill our way out of depleting oil supplies. We need to shift the subsidies from oil production/consumption to developing other sources for power.

What other sources? No one likes nuclear even though it�s the cleanest and safest. Hydro, seems like everyone wants the dams removed. Wind, only in certain areas at best. Where does that leave us? Sure we need to spend more on research, but until this happens will Americans quit driving and heating their homes?

Sometime everyone will wake up and realize that when its people vs. the environment, the environment will loose. Hate to put it this way but it�s the truth.

Drill away!

OB1 · 04-01-2005, 12:17 PM

I know I'm tired of these diesel prices. I say drill and then when OPEC see's that were serious, hopefully they will lower their prices to us.
JMHO

Riverliver · 04-01-2005, 12:32 PM

DRILL AWAY! I'll bite my tounge on the rest!

10-7 · 04-01-2005, 12:50 PM

I guess we can keep buying oil from opec and keep getting gouged! You cant have it both ways folks I say except for security reasons the less we have to do with the middle east the better.

yea baby · 04-01-2005, 12:54 PM

Better get a drift boat.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

garyk · 04-01-2005, 01:01 PM

Too bad there's no guarantee that any oil will even stay in the USA. There's every liklihood it will be shipped overseas to the highest bidder.

No doubt China is very pleased we're willing to do this in order to supply them with raw material (oil) so that they can produce and ship us finished goods.

We need energy independance - not political grandstanding.

Visionary leadership - not payback to campaign contributors.

ogstad-j · 04-01-2005, 01:07 PM

I have lived up thier and fished all over alaska and flowen all over the north slope and it wount hurt anything at all. DRILL!!!!!!

Ethical hunter · 04-01-2005, 01:24 PM

My 2 cents - DRILL!!

HB

Ni! · 04-01-2005, 01:30 PM

Drill that sucker.

skahorse · 04-01-2005, 01:35 PM

DRILL!

Who cares if it goes overseas? On a global economic level(which is where oil is now), more supply will lower prices. period. Who cares where the oil is from?

--Skahorse

BigWaterBigFish · 04-01-2005, 01:51 PM

Amazing that we see so many things related fishing and local conservation the same but have such varied opinions on something like this ... while I will not place my opinion on this subject here, I would encourage anyone who champions themselves as a sportsman(woman) or conservationist to look into this matter as unbias as possible, then make up your own mind and DO SOMETHING.

BoogerFish · 04-01-2005, 01:59 PM

It saddens me to hear things like "there is nothing there" and "The animals that might be displaced is also only a fraction of the entire herds in the area". "Its our god-given right and we can do whatever we want." What a load of crap! This kind of mentality is why we only have 7% of our orignal wild salmon stocks left. For those of you who say "who cares about wild fish we got hatcheries"--if our wild fish disappear our hatchery fish will lose their genetic diversity and therefore fail. Just because there is no fish to catch there or very many things to shoot does not mean we should do what ever we want.

Ethical hunter · 04-01-2005, 02:03 PM

More drilling - less talking.

HB

FinFansea · 04-01-2005, 02:20 PM

It's a fact, it sucks, but someday everyone will have to admit it. Humans vs. Environment, the enviro will loose.

I can see it now, 5:00 news; The Federal Government announced today that we can no longer allow the enviroment to suffer for our overwhelming energy needs. So they apologize for the upcomming rise in human deaths.

Southfork · 04-01-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Yeah!
And we can stop invading these countries that have the oil, and killing innocent people including our own young poeple all for some oil.

We are killing people for oil.
Did you ever stop to think about that?

Ragnar

Ragnar, I've thought about it! Before you open your "pipeline" I suggest you do some research on the matter. Nobody regrets war more then those sworn to protect people like you.

Think about it when your drinking your coffee in the morning reading your "freedom" paper.

ThaBigCheese · 04-01-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

It's a fact, it sucks, but someday everyone will have to admit it. Humans vs. Environment, the enviro will loose.

I can see it now, 5:00 news; The Federal Government announced today that we can no longer allow the enviroment to suffer for our overwhelming energy needs. So they apologize for the upcomming rise in human deaths.

I think your wrong....in the end, the earth will win and we will be gone.

Zodiac-Fisherman · 04-01-2005, 03:05 PM

Alaska is out last frontier. Lets not dick around up there.

Let the hydrogen revolution begin.. Its all beauracy. VP Dick Cheney is the CEO of Halliburton Oil, which coincidentially is the supplier of oil for our war in the middle east. We have hydrogen car's, BMW has a 745Hi, Honda has a one as well. Its time to start building hydrogen gas stations, and start importing those car's. I unequivocally believe that our govt is not up to speed as far as the hydrogen metamorphosis. Honda has already announced that they are going to start mass producing their hydrogen car's and start importing them here to the states. How come GM, Chevy, haven't taken up on this yet? Its time to get the ball rolling here.

Check out Peakoil.org

Sorry, but gas prices ain't going down. Its simple economics; Supply and demand. We are a growing world. Its time to take up new technological advances..

Sorry if this is offensive to some folks.

Dylan

luguando · 04-01-2005, 03:38 PM

Zodiac and Yeah Baby are right. All this talk about getting oil won't matter much in a relatively short amount of time because the world's running out of the cheap oil. Read up on "peak oil". It'll make you want to go fishing real bad after you're done.

Vandal · 04-01-2005, 03:52 PM

DDDDRRRIIIILLLL

reeldick · 04-01-2005, 03:54 PM

They deserve it. The fund was set up for the people. A percentage of every dollar the state gets for the oil goes to the fund. The principal is never touched. 1/2 of the years profits on the fund money goes back into the fund to inflation proof it and the balance is split among all residents who fill out the form in May saying they were residents from the previous October through May of this year. A check shows up in the fall. It puts needed money into the economy and helps many make it through the winter.
There are a lot of people living on the edge up there.

Thumper · 04-01-2005, 04:01 PM

0

Flush Release · 04-01-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Anyone who thinks the oil industry will not harm the environment needs to get their head examined, either that or stop watching Fox news.

Do you remember March 24th, 1989? 11 million gallons of oil spilled into our waters, covering our coastlines, killing countless numbers of birds, fish and mammals. Guess how much Exxon paid for the damage done? Nada, zip, zero, not one red cent.

The truth is drilling in ANWR will take place. Oil companies will get filthy rich, and the little money kicked down to Alaskans will be just a drop in the bucket.

I would much rather have them getting oil from ANWAR than from say, Russia! At least we have oversight and can make Oil companies stick to keeping it clean. I have lived in AK and the monies flowing down from the Oil development is needed to avoid a small population from VERY heavy taxes ( estm. at 23K per working person 10 years ago) just to keep the Government running. I have read on this site many complaining about Alaskans getting money for free from the state. Believe me the bit that the perm. fund distributes does not even come close to compensating for the higher costs of living there. As far as I am concerned DRILL BABY DRILL !

freespool · 04-01-2005, 04:12 PM

Zodiac you are correct. The best way to lower fuel costs is to use less of it. We need federal tax breaks for fuel efficient cars, not Hummers. There is no leadership in the white house to ween us off middle eastern oil. The simple fact of the matter is forcing car manufacturers to increase new car gas mileage by 2mpg would save more than all the oil in ANWR. Reducing our national speed limit to 55mph would also save huge amounts of oil. But alas, we are stuck with a oil man as our leader, so his answer is drill for more oil. This does not surprise me in the least. History may not be to kind to him however.
I support a full on frontal attack by this country on ways that we can become less dependent on fossil fuels. And then we can export that technology to the rest of the world.

salmon hugger

OwyheeKIller · 04-01-2005, 04:20 PM

Well said FreeSpool. I'm disappointed so many anglers do not share our conservation views. Who would have thought that Teddy Roosevelt had more vision way back when, than our leaders do today?

baltz526 · 04-01-2005, 04:26 PM

start developing the oil field now, or twentyfive years from know, it makes no difference in the long run. every little oil field on this planet will be developed in the future no matter where it is located. if anyone thinks differently the are deluding themselves. the world economy runs on oil and until there is a new power source like methane, flooding the world energy market all oil will be developed.

rebell · 04-01-2005, 04:28 PM

This is as funny as it can get. Those of us who have been there say............DRILL IT!

Those who have no idea what's really up there say NO WAY.

DRILL IT!!!!!!!

Uglygreen · 04-01-2005, 04:38 PM

Lived in Alaska, traveled the Yukon, seen the Pipeline - DRILL.

Brad

04-01-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the Info 5-Salt. This ANWR scam is a joke and shoudl be stopped. The amount of oil there is insignificant and the damage to the environment will be too much.

We can't drill our way out of depleting oil supplies. We need to shift the subsidies from oil production/consumption to developing other sources for power.

EK

EK whatever you do don't confuse the issue with...FACTS

Let me ask some of you pro-drilling people a few questions.
1.How much oil are we talking about?
2.When will this oil actually be available?
3.What will the impact be on prices at the pump?
I can never seem to understand the willingness to pillage these areas by so called sportsmen

and come on people just because someone has visited the area does not make them an expert on the enviroment there

Now excuse me while I go pick up a loaf of bread down at Safeway in my massive SUV because after all it's my right to do so isn't it?

Wonder what the consensus would be if they discovered oil in Tillamook Bay?

5-Cents · 04-01-2005, 04:56 PM

My dream someday is to have 5 barrels of oil for my wife, each one of my kids and myslef. I'll keep it in the back yard!

Anywho I am for drilling because I know with the evrionmental laws and all the tundra huggers the companies wont get away with much up there. I will fully agree with people that we should find an alternative energy source too. It seems idiotic to think we have super computers that can fit in our hands, we have sent people to the moon but we cant find a way to create energy out of something other than oil.

Uglygreen · 04-01-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

1.How much oil are we talking about?
2.When will this oil actually be available?
3.What will the impact be on prices at the pump?

1. More than we have right now.
2. As soon as we drill and pump it out of the ground.
3. Lower than it would be otherwise.

Brad

Joe Schwab · 04-01-2005, 05:25 PM

DRILL!!!!!

1pump · 04-01-2005, 06:31 PM

I don't think it's going to have any positive effect on oil prices, but they might as well drill it. I heard they same doomsday routine when they developed Prudhoe Bay and built the pipeline. If they drill it with the proper oversight, there won't be any significant impact on the local flora and fauna.
As a former AK resident, I know how they feel about Outsiders meddling in the state's affairs, even if it is an NWR. Those are good paying jobs on the Slope. Drill away.....carefully.

04-01-2005, 06:31 PM

1. More than we have right now - Very little
2. As soon as we drill and pump it out of the ground- Wrong Brad, it will be years before we see any oil from this folly
3. Lower than it would be otherwise - Again wrong It's generally acknowledged that this will have little if any impact on pump prices and the oil will probably go to China
Gee Brad I wonder if I was in favor of the drilling what your stance would be?