Nets in Tuesday

monoman · 03-28-2005, 02:55 PM

The nets will go in on Tuesday evening for 8 hours. There will be a compact meeting Wednesday afternoon to see where they are, nets should go in on Thursday also.

Snakebite · 03-28-2005, 03:47 PM

So what would this imply? I'm not advocating the gill net fishery, but I won't say it is a good thing either, what with the potential bycatch. There's no indication from your post that you decry the fishery, but it is traditional on this board to diss the fishery as a bad thing. The thing that really irks me is the notion that when the nets "go in" that the sport catch rate declines significantly. I'd like to see some scientific correlation there, as opposed to the opinion of a bunch of disgruntled fishers who need a scapegoat for their failed efforts. I hope that the sport fishers will realize that the commercial fishery was here and established long before sport fishing on the CR became a strong presence. Mind you, sport fishing is important! But since the sport fishing allocation has taken a significant "piece of the pie" so to speak, the gillnet fishery has taken many measures to ensure up river escapement of a percentage of fish expected to be taken in the sport fishery for further escapement of wild stocks.

Before one points their finger at one source of "take" as a problem, they should consider their own impacts as well. I'll be willing to bet that the sport fishery takes many more salmon headed up the CR these days, and I'll also bet that there are many more "wild" stocks that are impacted (bycatch in terminal sport fisheries in CR tribs.)by the sport fishery than in the commercial...we are data poor in this sense, but my gut tells me that the gillnet fishers are not as bad as one who believes otherwise. JMO, but I usually stand on the fence on this issue, especially when speculation and inuendo rule the thread. So, can I vote for a rule of pragmatic theories here, and not just go off flaming one sector of the resource users here?
Disclaimer: I, in no way voice the opinion of any management agency on this board. I'm here of my own accord, and opinion, and do not wish to offend anyone I respond to either.

Snakebite

steelheadslayer · 03-28-2005, 03:53 PM

Snakebite, I think he was just informing us what was going on as the netters decided to stay off the river the past couple weeks. My biggest problem with commercial nets is the overharvest of a few years ago on wild winter steelhead stocks. When they can come up with a method that will not harm these precious resources then I will back them to the hilt.

I agree the sportfishers catch is 'almost' what the commercial take is. But, I haven't heard of a ton of wild steelhead being caught by springer fishermen, a few, sure. That is why I object to commercial netting the Columbia during the wild steelhead run.

SlackBite · 03-28-2005, 04:01 PM

Monoman,

Thanks for the update. I was wondering the outcome of the meeting. Too bad about the other post...

SlackBite

ET · 03-28-2005, 04:03 PM

Wow, Snakebite your moniker fits you perfectly! Don't you think you jumped the gun just a little? Been holding that one in for a while?

Fshklr · 03-28-2005, 04:04 PM

Snakebite..what ya trolling for???

Quote:

The thing that really irks me is the notion that when the nets "go in" that the sport catch rate declines significantly. I'd like to see some scientific correlation there, as opposed to the opinion of a bunch of disgruntled fishers who need a scapegoat for their failed efforts . I hope that the sport fishers will realize that the commercial fishery was here and established long before sport fishing on the CR became a strong presence. Mind you, sport fishing is important! But since the sport fishing allocation has taken a significant "piece of the pie" so to speak, the gillnet fishery has taken many measures to ensure up river escapement of a percentage of fish expected to be taken in the sport fishery for further escapement of wild stocks.

:lurk:

boater · 03-28-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

The thing that really irks me is the notion that when the nets "go in" that the sport catch rate declines significantly. I'd like to see some scientific correlation there, as opposed to the opinion of a bunch of disgruntled fishers who need a scapegoat for their failed efforts.

Snakebite · 03-28-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Snakebite, I think he was just informing us what was going on as the netters decided to stay off the river the past couple weeks. My biggest problem with commercial nets is the overharvest of a few years ago on wild winter steelhead stocks. When they can come up with a method that will not harm these precious resources then I will back them to the hilt.

I agree the sportfishers catch is 'almost' what the commercial take is. But, I haven't heard of a ton of wild steelhead being caught by springer fishermen, a few, sure. That is why I object to commercial netting the Columbia during the wild steelhead run.

I have no problem with your concerns, but just when is the "wild steelhead run?" Based on my meager 20 years of being a biologist and fisher, wild steelhead could be comming up the CR 365. Based on that notion, I fail to see when a "good" time to let the netters do their job is... :whazzup: I'm sure there are data that show when their bycatch rates are higher than others, but I think that the reason for "test fisheries" are in place just for that reason. How else can we learn? On another note, things change! The dynamics of this situation have so many variables that it may never be a "manageable" situation. Monitoring and hindsight are the only real tools available. We've learned a lot about monitoring, and it takes a lot of resources to do so, but time and time again, the ecological conditions that are not predictible in any equitable manner, have shown what the outcome has been. We all wish that we could predict ocean and river conditions might be, but we have little, if any control over how to react to it. The conservative line is to shut us down. So be it. Let mother nature take care of a potential problem. What??? Don't we have control over our dominion? The answer is : NO! I think that the answer is, that we all have to take the punches and expect to have our opportunities curtailed when there's a threat to the resource, regardless of the "reason" for a problem. This has become such a political thing lately, and I'm tired of it. Like the guy on "Dragnet" said..."Just the facts ma'am"....DWR

.

Snakebite

Snakebite · 03-28-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Wow, Snakebite your moniker fits you perfectly! Don't you think you jumped the gun just a little? Been holding that one in for a while?

YES!

Snakebite · 03-28-2005, 04:41 PM

[quote]
Snakebite..what ya trolling for???

I'm not trolling, I'm mooching.

monoman · 03-28-2005, 05:12 PM

Snakebite
Data.....There is much data that can be applied here in hind sight. Let's take some facts as we know them today.

There has been upwards to 400,000 Chinooks a year caught by commercials for the last several years off the coast. Less than 1/5th that many caught by sports off the coast. Figure in all Chinooks caught by sports, it would not even come close to those of commercials. We are sharing the fish.

As per the states figures, there are fewer than 200 gillnetters fishing, 120 is closer. There are over 100,000 angler days for sportfishers in the spring.

Fact, the state claims there will be somewhere around 3000 fish caught on this 8 hour season. This will reduce the number of fish in the river by 3000, that will reduce the chance for you, as a sportfisher, to catch one of those fish. Less than three hundred fish have gone over the dam. Unknown how many are in the river. Unknown how many will come into the river.

As for my post, it was current info on an on going season, thank you for your reply.

The Overfishin Condition · 03-28-2005, 05:34 PM

Snakebite, seriously man, this is only the latest in a pattern of posts from you that usually take this tone.
Monoman- Thanks for the report, at least someone can come up with something useful to say around here. Maybe someday other members will learn and actually contribute something constructive to the community. TOC.

Snakebite · 03-28-2005, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Snakebite
Data.....There is much data that can be applied here in hind sight. Let's take some facts as we know them today.

There has been upwards to 400,000 Chinooks a year caught by commercials for the last several years off the coast. Less than 1/5th that many caught by sports off the coast. Figure in all Chinooks caught by sports, it would not even come close to those of commercials. We are sharing the fish.

As per the states figures, there are fewer than 200 gillnetters fishing, 120 is closer. There are over 100,000 angler days for sportfishers in the spring.

Fact, the state claims there will be somewhere around 3000 fish caught on this 8 hour season. This will reduce the number of fish in the river by 3000, that will reduce the chance for you, as a sportfisher, to catch one of those fish. Less than three hundred fish have gone over the dam. Unknown how many are in the river. Unknown how many will come into the river.

As for my post, it was current info on an on going season, thank you for your reply.

So, the bottom line is that you are just speculating as well. No worries, I could do it, but it sounds like work, and I have much other "work" to do.

Point-of-Sale Clerk · 03-28-2005, 05:50 PM

To all who have posted and who have expressed concerns regarding Snakebite�s post and opinions:

Snakebite is, along with being employed by the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, their unofficial �Commercial Fisheries� head cheerleader.
This opinion is based upon his posts here at Ifish as well as private correspondence. I have found little redeeming qualities within his posts to make up for his poor attitude and his lack of character regarding his correspondence.

Mr. Kupillas, if you think this opinion of you is too harsh, you may contact the moderators and ask them edit this post. But many will still see your view as biased if not flawed.

Regards

*** Clerk

No-Limit · 03-28-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Fact, the state claims there will be somewhere around 3000 fish caught on this 8 hour season. This will reduce the number of fish in the river by 3000, that will reduce the chance for you, as a sportfisher, to catch one of those fish. Less than three hundred fish have gone over the dam. Unknown how many are in the river. Unknown how many will come into the river.

Monoman,

FishFreak · 03-28-2005, 05:56 PM

Woah... chill dude ....

monoman · 03-28-2005, 05:57 PM

Snakebite

I see no "speculating" in either of my post. If you are so informed, where am I wrong?

Pickles · 03-28-2005, 06:01 PM

What I hear *** Clerk saying is that Snakebite is basicly the Gillnetters Flunky? At least this is how I interpret Snakebite's post's!

Chris Blunck AKA Pickles

Snakebite · 03-28-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

To all who have posted and who have expressed concerns regarding Snakebite�s post and opinions:

Snakebite is, along with being employed by the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, their unofficial �Commercial Fisheries� head cheerleader.
This opinion is based upon his posts here at Ifish as well as private correspondence. I have found little redeeming qualities within his posts to make up for his poor attitude and his lack of character regarding his correspondence.

Mr. Kupillas, if you think this opinion of you is too harsh, you may contact the moderators and ask them edit this post. But many will still see your view as biased if not flawed.

Regards

*** Clerk

Sorry Pal,
I don't work for ODFW. I work with them. So, if you see, and accuse my opinions as flawed, you are sorely, and continually mistaken. Your comments here are well known here for your mistaken knowledge. What private correspondance? You don't have the guts! Have a nice day.

SlackBite · 03-28-2005, 06:24 PM

Did someone forget to take their Lithium today? Sheesh man, chill out.

Why don't you start you own rant thread and bug off monoman's thread.

Point-of-Sale Clerk · 03-28-2005, 06:25 PM

http://www.ifish.net/forum/showflat....;Number=321259

BCF · 03-28-2005, 06:47 PM

Whoa. oh yeah, Whoa. Did I say? Whoa.............Snakebite try again.

BCF

crabbait · 03-28-2005, 07:13 PM

Y'all chill.

The original post was a simple statement of fact. Let's not be drawn into a major controversy over something so simple.

The nets will get their share. Period.

Fish when it's fishable. We got two, Friday, before the blowout.

*** Clerk - Your link did not work and caused the page to scroll so I shortened it.

Slayerofthefishies · 03-28-2005, 07:28 PM

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. The monetary value that the sports fisherman puts into the system verses the commercial group to maintain this fishery seems outweighed. All do deserve their share but it should be equally balanced. I do believe that the sportsman contribute more to all aspects of the fishery than do the commercial fisherman, boats, gear, local shops and ecetra. Netters do impact the fishery for several days but should not be ran off, all that I ask it that we keep it fair for all, respect one another and have a good time. I am raising three kids and teaching them to fish, if we all take care of this and no one gets greedy then my kids too will be able to teach my grandchildren the joy of catching a Salmon. My Two Cents Slayer

Lucky one · 03-28-2005, 07:31 PM

Snakebite, I'm not trying to continue a fight here but out of curiosity exactly how do you work with the odfw?

5-Cents · 03-28-2005, 07:41 PM

Ala Cheech & Cong circa mid 80's...

"Save the whales... shoot them seals!"

Cool out guys there's plenty of fish for everyone and things are just getting started. Heck I have caught springers with a netter working downstream of me 200 yards.

Silver Hilton · 03-28-2005, 07:52 PM

I think for once this is going to work in our favor. The river is pretty blown out, and is going to be for a bit. The nets will get theirs pretty quickly, and fisheries will have good data about what the run is looking like. The sport catch will be down, so we won't use our quota up while the nets are in. Hopefully, they'll get their fish in the next ten days while the river clears, and then we can have fun in the good weather.

Anyone wanting to complain about the commercials, go ahead, but this ain't the place where that gets changed. The commercial fishermen are going to get a portion of the catch this year, whether we like it or not. No need to crap on each other about it. From my understanding, if the run size is as planned, they actually will catch fewer fish than the sporties out of the Columbia, due to the way the impact on wild fish is calculated. This breaks down if the run size is re-estimated downward midway through the run. I won't make any arguments that this is right, proper, fair, economically justifiable or anything, it's just the math on the situation. If you don't like it, keep writing your congressman, and listen to Pete.

fishboys · 03-28-2005, 07:56 PM

WOW

thats all i can think of,WOW

snakebit what are you thinking? This guy posted about nets going in.Thats it.Maybe someone would change there plans if the nets went in.Maybe not even go fishing at all maybe stay home and do some honey does.And then you use his post to go off on some rant.Who do you think you are why didnt you just start your own thread on this mostly sport fishing site about how netters are getting screwed.I mean come on.I have learned alot on this site about alot of things and i can say you are NOT doing commicial fisherman any favors by spouting off on this post.Did i mention that this guy just posted a non biased fact.