Sauvie Island Survey...

[Lured In]

I thought this might be both informative and I am looking forward to hearing other peoples perspective on this.

Although I wouldn't count myself an expert either on Sauvie or as a duckhunter for that matter, I have been hunting at Sauvie for the last 6 years between 1-3 times a week each season. I have been hunting since I was 11 and consider myself informed to hunting issues and the like.

As such I wanted to get some conversation going regarding duck hunting at Sauvie, specifically the east side. I find it almost laughable that everyone complains about skybusting, but nobody runs around going, "man did you see me shoot at that duck 100 yards out?"

So if you feel so inclined please answer the following questions.

1. How long have you been hunting at Sauvie?
2. On average how many days/season do you hunt at Sauvie?
3. Do you think skybusting has gotten worse, about the same, or been decreasing?
4. Explain your previous answer.
5. Have you ever seen anyone disciplined for skybusting at Sauvie?
6. Have you ever seen anyone disciplined for skybusting elsewhere?
7. Would you support a rule that introduced discipline for "unsportsman like conduct" like skybusting? (anybody have a yellow flag?)
8. Would you report an incident, by blind or location, of skybusting?
9. Do you think a rule similar to this would decrease skybusting?
10. Would you support a 25 shell limit to decrease skybusting?
11. Any other thoughts? How would you solve the problem?

Who knows it might be something we can take to Jerry or Rob out there and see what they can do.

[Lured In]

Just to kick things off...

1. 6 years
2. More than 20 times a season.
3. I think it is about the same. Some units are worse like Mudhen (aka Cage Match)
4. They have been there longer than me and it doesn't seem to be any worse. My perception is it gets worse every year, but when I think about it it drove me nuts last year too.
5. No
6. No
7. Maybe. I don't think any of us need big brother running around. Plus how would you prove someone was skybusting. Sometimes a shot looks a lot longer from a distance or odd angles. I also know there are some fantastic s******* out there who can consitently kill at 40+ yards better than I can at 30 yards.
8. Yes I would.
9. I think it might. Some people really don't know the limits of their ability or their equipment.
10. I would support a 25 shell limit. For me personally, if i can't kill 7 ducks in 25 shots I have other problems to worry about. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
11. I don't know if there is any feasible way to discourage skybusting. It is frustrating to me as a considerate hunter. Perhaps we all need to go back to hunter safety class?

[bigshark]

1.45th season
2.Public 3 per week 1st 30, Private 5 week
past 15
3.No
4.If birds are called too high find another
club.
5.Yes
6.Yes
7.I don't think so, can't see how you could
enforce it, but I like the sound of it.
8.If I were very sure of what I saw, yes,
but how do you know what really happened.
Sure he shot to get them the heck out of
here as they were spoonies etc. Blaw-Blaw
9.No, Horses-Ears will be Horeses-Ears where
ever they are.
10. I'd support a 10 shell limit as better.
11. You are showing the good part of your ethics and I take your concern seriously.
We have faced this problem since the sport started, I would guess. I have hunted with
men who would take 15 birds, when the limit was that high, with the same number of shots.
Anybody remember Harvey Fisher? It was called
high bird-to-shell-ratio. People don't think that way and IMHO don't have much pride anymore. They talk a good game but you don't see them shooting enough to be as good as they can be. I'm sorry I'm off base. Just my opinion anyway.

[fish forever]

If i remember right, I think Sauvies (public portion) has a 1 box (25) shell limit -> many other refuges do as well.

1. How long have you been hunting at Sauvie?
5 years
2. On average how many days/season do you hunt at Sauvie?
7
3. Do you think skybusting has gotten worse, about the same, or been decreasing?
about the same
4. Explain your previous answer.
5. Have you ever seen anyone disciplined for skybusting at Sauvie?
nope
6. Have you ever seen anyone disciplined for skybusting elsewhere?
nope
7. Would you support a rule that introduced discipline for "unsportsman like conduct" like skybusting? (anybody have a yellow flag?)
in theory yes, in practice, would be tough -> one mans sky busting is another's pass shooting.
8. Would you report an incident, by blind or location, of skybusting?
depends on how much they ****** me off and if it impacted my hunting
9. Do you think a rule similar to this would decrease skybusting?
probably not, I think a notice or pre hunt education program would be more effective (like the NW goose permit structure)
10. Would you support a 25 shell limit to decrease skybusting?
yep, i think Sauvies already has it
11. Any other thoughts? How would you solve the problem?

Biggest problem i've had out there has been people setting up too close to my spread in the roam units. Should have a 100 yard space rule for people to set up between other hunters. Ive seen fights and arguments start over this one. One day we got out early to set up our spread in one of the roam units and hunkered down in the cover of the corn rows, only to have some guy and his dogs Stand in the open 20 yards away - no camo, no blind, blue jacket and white faces. He also managed to come in and make a ruckus just as shooting time started and the birds were starting to fly. Needless to say skybusting wasnt an issue for us that day - no birds would get close enough.

[Tilla]

1.13 yrs
2. Not much at the refuge. Used to spend several days a year on the west side.
3. About the same.
4. See explanation. I no longer accuse anyone of it .
5. No
6. No
7.Agencies don't have the budget to have the equipment to prove it.
8. Done it
9.See #7
10.I can't hit anything in a wind at 20 yds, I need the ammo. No.
11.How do you make people better hunters? Do you want everyone to be better?

It's very hard to determine shooting distance from another perspective. Sure there are unrealistic shots taken, but I have noticed than everyone seems to get accused of it. Since I got stuck with the "ramrod" position on a club, I get to hear all the comments made of others. The skybusting comment is made by everyone about everyone else. We have several tree lines on the property that geese work through and I point out that most of these people are not shooting too far unless we have some record breaking tree heights. Generally when I point out the estimated tree height and compare it to the shooting they settle down. Let say if you think 50 yds is max distance, that's 150 ft. Most of the big trees at the island are 90-120 ft high.
Also it seems that if the guy is hitting the birds he's awsome, but if he is missing, he's a skybuster. The misinterpretation of lead required is really the culprit at longer distances.

Where I do see long shots taken is out of frustration because someone else is getting all the birds.

Just my .02.

[MoJet Driver]

Okay, I'll bite on this bait:

1. Since 1994; so 7 years.
2. Depends on how soon I get sick of all the trashy hunters. Last year about 5 times and I hunted where nobody else really wanted to until they started watching the averages.
3. Skybusting is worse everywhere.
4. Due to poor calling, lousy decoy setups and lack of dedication to the sport of waterfowling.
5. No.
6. No, but I did talk to a cadet at Summer Lake once (skybusting capital of the world) who would try to talk losers into controlling themselves (futile effort but an A for effort).
7. Of course.
8. I have in the past but I've slacked off due to the lack of any enforcement. Now I just b-itch.
9. Probably not. Falls right in line with snagging and there already is a law against that.
10. Sure, that would at least align the state with federal management. Still I think there are plenty of retards that would come up with a way to stash extra shells.
11. Particularly at Sauvie Island (aka. Sloppy Island) there seems to be an ever increasing bunch of retards that insist on highballing every bird that flies by. Despite the fact that it is nine miles away. People will highball birds when setting in your dekes. Nice touch fools. Give the benefit to the guy that has the birds setting. Look to see how his dekes (or lack of dekes... whoa what a concept) are set. It's not a contest. If you are mad because you can't get birds to set, get smart, think outside the box. Consider your camo, deke pattern, number of dekes, calling techniques and location. Just do it better. And another thing, those percentages posted by ODFW don't mean anything if you are a sloppy hunter. Most of the time the 5.0 - 7.0 averages are scored by one or two parties that know what they are doing and they may carry the percentage for the entire unit. On the down side, they may have also pulled the average up by shooting mudhens or mergansers too. Numbers are not always what they appear. My best advice is, if you can't blow that call like a duck, keep it in your shirt pocket.

For those who think you are competent and need a break, try those units that don't have a high average. Those birds have had a break from the throngs of Mudhen, Racetrack and Hunt unit yokels. You might be surprised.

I will never agian (done it once)hunt Mudhen in this lifetime.

My dime.

[Labsforme]

1.13years
2.public 10 private 20
3.about the same
4.there probably has been more inexperienced hunters due to more birds in the flyway.
5.no
6.no
7.yes
8.have done it
9.doubtfull
10.this is a toss up.I agree with Tilla about
missing birds in the wind.
11.Concerning slob hunters,I usually will try to be nice about it.Sometimes just asking them to tone down on the call works or
just waiting them out.They usually go away
after 9:30 anyway.Jerry and also State Police
do make periodic trips out to the problem areas,but they just don't have the personel
to take care of all the problems.Possibly adding more blind units or distance between blinds would help.
good topic

[Baldpate Basher]

How you doin' kid? And how's that crotchety pop of you'n? And the junior too? Had fun this past Friday night (bait boy not withstanding). OK here's my response.

1. Four years only.
2. About once per week.
3. I'm not sure weather it's gettin' worse or I'm gettin' more sensitive.
4. It may just be my perception.
5. No
6. No
7. It would be vary hard to enforce. And I wouldn’t support it because it could be used by unscrupulous people to get preferential treatment or to get back at someone they don’t like. Plus, I think that we already have more rules then necessary. The more rules the less Freedom.
8. Do it all the time but there isn’t a rule and only polite people are courteous.
9. No. Some people shoot like that because they don’t know what a good shot looks like. Everyone who shoots that way does it out of frustration.
10. No. I’ve hunted in some locations where 25 shell limits were imposed and it didn’t effect the skybusters. But that wasn’t the purpose of the limit. They just wanted to limit our hunting. (See answer for # 7.)
11. I don’t think it’s something we’re going to be able to fix without making a rule. I’m not sure we should if we could. (See answer for # 7.)

I know you mean well with this skybusting campaign but mostly I want to be left to hunt with as little interference as possible. Yeah we do need some rules to keep greedy people from shooting ducks into oblivion. However I think people should learn some courtesy instead of laying down the law.

No Law ever made us free. They can only restrict us. Even if they are necessary. So let’s only enact thoughs laws that we can’t live without.