Rocky Mountain or Roosevelt?

Lured In · 10-29-2001, 12:10 PM

Mojet, good question, I too would like to hear what people think. My guess is that you could "expect" that it would more "predominently" Rocky Mountain. In truth, there may be no way to tell.

I would like to know too, do they score RM and Roosevelt elk in the same category for B&C or P&Y? From what I remember, Black Tails from east of I-5 cannot quailify for B&C or P&Y because of the intermixing with Mulies. Is this the same for elk?

birdhunter · 10-29-2001, 12:20 PM

Don't know how much this helps, but I know for a fact that most of the elk on the Cascade side of the White River Unit are Rocky Mt. Elk. They were planted there years ago. Don't know for sure if they were native, or if the Roosevelt were, but the Rocky Mt. are much more common. We've seen some Roosevelt up high near the summit, but not too many.

Are you planning on hunting the second season for the "any bull" tag? That'll be a tough one w/ so little snow. Usually it pushes them down into the canyons, but the past few years they've been up high during the season. Hunted that 2 years ago and it sucked. All of our typical spots were barren. There were a few singles running around, but lots more people than elk. Finally found them on the last day of the season. Right near the Timberline. Talk w/ an ODFW bio or some locals before you head over. They can be very frustrating. Good luck.

[10-29-01: Message edited by: Dazed and Confused ]

I think I answered a different question that what you asked, but hopefully this helps.

bigshark · 10-29-2001, 01:04 PM

My thoughts are that if it is shot anyplace on Mt Hood it is considered a RM.
LuredIn, if I remember correctly the blacktail rule you refer to is only for Jackson Co. where it was determined there was so much interbreeding that all would be considered mule deer. The books were filling up with new blactail entries so fast and they were for the most-part taken in Jackson.

Dogfish · 10-29-2001, 01:18 PM

In Washington, the dividing line is Interstate 5 for the "official" species dividing line on elk.

Mule deer and Blacktail deer are of the same species, but have changed into two separate populations (sorry to all of those folks who don't believe in Darwin) due to differences in habitat, etc.

MoJet Driver · 10-29-2001, 03:15 PM

Okay, so we've got the text book ruling for B&C and P&Y. I guess then the real question("Now why didn't you just ask that in the first place?!"), is: Should I expect the elk in this area to act more like Roosevelts or Rocky Mountains? I mean if you disturb them, should I expect them to travel as far and as fast as a typical eastern animal or would you think that they would be more territorial like a coastal animal?

bigshark · 10-29-2001, 03:27 PM

MoJet
I have only hunted the cloud-cap and white river. My limited experience is when they run their first stop-and-look-see, I'm guessing, its somewhere around Pendleton. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: bigshark ]

Baldpate Basher · 10-29-2001, 04:59 PM

Ok? So for those of us less educated ones, how do you tell the difference between the two species?
I�ve never hunted either species and have only got a glimpse of some in the wild.
Are there any specific markings or is it more a behavioral thing?
And if so how do you tell after you�ve shot one which one you�ve got? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

To tell you the truth, I�m not sure I�d care if I had one in my sights. However it sounds as though there might be a seasonal difference and therefore maybe a fine for shooting the wrong one. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Or am I wrong about that?

Educate me, Please?

Oh yeah, and for birdhunter.

Baldpate!Baldpate!Baldpate!Baldpate!Baldpate!

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Baldpate Basher ]

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Baldpate Basher ]

MoJet Driver · 10-29-2001, 05:07 PM

Birdhunter,

I'm still kind of torn whether or not to hunt them this year. Some recent scouting trips have indicated them beginning to move down. The storm that came through a week ago dumped some snow at the 4000 ft level and I was able to pick up some sign. One track had a cougar paw print in trail. I'm holding out to see if this weather will continue to bring more of the white stuff. Definitely not enough yet to get the migration in full swing.

Bigshark,

I know what you mean! I know what you mean! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

birdhunter · 10-29-2001, 05:29 PM

Wigeon Basher - Elk is elk is elk. It won't matter if you shoot a Rocky Mt. vs a Roosevelt. Just make sure you're in the right hunt unit and it's a legal elk.

You still want info on what the differences are? Okay you asked for it. Taken from "All about Elk" by the NHA, here it is.

Roosevelt Elk - (Cervus elaphus roosevelti) Roosevelt elk are generally restricted from the west side of the Cascades to the Pacific ocean. Antlers in Roosevelt bulls are generally heavier for their length than the antlers of other subspecies and tend to "crown" or grow a number of points at odd angles at the last fork in the main beam. Their antlers and coat are darker than those of other subspecies as well. They are the bigger bodied of the elk in Oregon, with mature bulls averaging 850 - 900 lbs.

Rocky Mt. Elk - (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) Average around 750-800 lbs. Their coats are lighter than Roosevelt and are restricted to east of the summit of the Cascades.

MoJet Driver - Good luck w/ it. Hope you get some more snow for a good hunt. If you know the area and where the elk have been, you'll probably do okay. At least you have some snow to track in. Last time I did it, the ground was bare and dry. Best of luck.

Oh, watch out for the big cats. That area is thick w/ them. You might have already noticed that. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

bigshark · 10-29-2001, 06:58 PM

Bald P Basher

The text book discriptions may sound like it might be a little hard to tell them apart but it is not. The color of the RM bull is "very" lite by comparison. The antlers on the RM are slimmer and are usually wider in spread down by the head. IMHO you will only need to see them once up close and you will always be able to tell them apart. What is of real interest to me is how smart these animal are suppose to be. I have read that they rank between the horse and pig. Thats very high as the pig is considered the most
intelligent of 4 legged critters. I always thought I had a hard time harvesting one because I was a part-time hunter and they were full-time elk....It turn out they are just smarter......aw shucks..which way did they go.

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: bigshark ]

MoJet Driver · 10-29-2001, 11:32 PM

I've always been lead to understand that the species dividing line has been the summit of the Cascades. Since animals can't read anything but hunting season dates, how are they supposed to know that? I know you will get that intermixing of blacktail and mulies (aka. benchlegs) up there, but what about the elk?

So the big question is, theoretically, let's say in the west side of the White River unit, would you expect Roosevelt type of elk behavior or Rocky Mountain?

Baldpate Basher · 10-30-2001, 08:29 AM

Hey thanks folks!

As always if you ask a question or make a misstatement everyone is willing and able to keep you straight.

With the exception of the word BALDPATE!

Hey bird, I thought you knew your poop before but now I see you're resourceful as well! Or at least you can use your resources.

Oh yeah, Danny is so impressed with your elk hunt that he wants to take you on another boat trip. But he said something I didn�t quite get, about handing you the anchor to help you float? I don�t get it. I think he�s a bit jealous, just like all of the rest of us.

Cool! Keep in touch.

And

Baldpate! Baldpate! Baldpate! Baldpate! Baldpate!