What Happens When You Hit?

[Billy Tillamook]

O.K. Dumb question when you hit you hit...Seriously... I'm a new sled owner, I had a driftboat for years and can read water.A poll if you will... Just looking for some input from all you experienced sled owners as to what types of things happen when you hit... I.E. ( bang-ouch that hurt) or ( blam- oh *#@! there goes my shoe, now what?) or ( whamo-I'm thrown to the front of the boat along with my passengers) I know theres lots of variables,but what is the typical occurance when you hit? What happens when you blow a shoe, Do you have any power? I mainly run the clack! Any advice or comment would be much appreciated!

[anger management]

Everytime I have cracked the shoe on my outboard jet the motor always come up out of the water. And when you hit a rock with the shoe you will feel a nice hard thud revibrate throught the boat.

[DownTime]

Do your best not to hit,it can get very expensive.Everytime you run rocks through your impeller,liner, and grate you are not doing them any good.If you are on a bar shut the motor off and hopefully you can drift off.If not you will have your work cut out for you.You will almost always hear bad noises and feel hitting larger rocks.No set answer for so many variables. :shocked: Sometimes you can clear the pump by running it and sometimes you will have to beach it or trailer it to clear it.You will notice a power drop immediately if you have something stuck in the pump of any size.

JB

[HOGTIDE]

The shoe housing is aluminum, so usually it scrapes and crushes away rather easily. Your ss grates will bend or crush together a bit in the housing. Usually, the jet will suck well enough to get you home.

One of my best smacks was coming downstream on the Deschutes at Rattlesnake. A sideways gust of wind put me solidly into a very large boulder at full speed.....snapped the welds on the center console right off at the bottom, almost threw my pal out the front of the boat, killed the engine....wowsers :shocked: what a ride!

You will never hit anything going upstream. Going downstream takes some skills and power-management as you use just enough juice to stay on a plane, while saving enough to power out of sharp corners and away from obstacles. If you start smackin' stuff going upstream....I would recommend going back to the driftboat!

[fishisabonus]

Ask Hogmaster where those black ducks are?

Slow down when you see them... :grin:

[kayakfisher]

Thanks...you guys just convinced me not to get a Jet....

Maybe...

M.

[Water Ready]

If you blow the shoe, ya better get your paddle out or know how to throw a lasso around a tree. Total blowouts are not fun. Been there, done that! [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] Shoes are cast Aluminum and fracture or explode on impact depending on the size of the rock. I actually was thrown through the windshield and console and landed on the raised platform. Wasn't that bad though for me but the boat was a wreck. We crippled it back down and after taking on more water, smashed another rock and blewout the shoe. :depressed: Then we floated with the bilge pump running till we got to the take out. Another boat pulled my buddies boat to the side and that was the end of our day.. "Note to self"... Learn the river and never stop learning cause it changes too! We were way to comfortable that day! Anyway, it happens really fast. Sometimes your lucky, one time you may not be. Happy Fishn'

[swampy]

I saw it happen once. Pretty nasty. The sled was running downstream on the lower Santiam. Banking left thru a shoot that I had figured as the "wrong" one. Sort of saw it coming so I yell to my buddies to watch this ! It hit a rock and did a violent 180 and is now headed upstream , bow down , and at full throtle ,sucking and spitting rocks until it died. Folks were thrown about and were screaming. Picked our jaws up , and the anchor and were on our up when two young cowboys ran up , said they heard it downsteam , and were off to the rescue . Pulled them off the rocks , floated it downtream . Since then I've found real desire to be sure I'm were I need to be.

[Tilla]

You just cannot be distracted when operating a sled on a river. You should focus on the job at hand every minute. There is a lot of responsibility involved especially for your passengers.

[Jennie@ifish]

...and PLEASE... Don't get drunk and run a sled!

It may be fun at first, but... let's just say it's very immature, and not a good idea!

Jen

[Water Ready]

Doesn't make sense to drink and drive, especially on the river. Power of the river + power of the sled X drinking= Mayhem, distruction and possibly death. :depressed: :depressed: :depressed: Only takes once to change a lot of possibilities... :whazzup:

[RogueFishr]

I busted the shoe on mine coming down river once. It ended up being split almost in half, with the rods that hold the steel grates keeping the broken half of the shoe 'hanging' there. The boat pulled REAL hard to the broken side. I was able to still get downriver to the takeout.


RF

[metalhead madness]

BT if you are going to run the clack do yourself a favor and book a trip. Try Dave Johnson, do some fishing in the morning and a little river running in the afternoon. Also Capt John Oliver gives river reading training. He is on this board quite often. One more would be Jack Glass though this is not his river he knows it pretty well. He will do river training only and is full of info. He actually was the one I used when I got my boat. Good luck and be carefull. Just enough thottle to keep you on plane with plenty left for evasive action. If you can, practice during the weekdays. Weekends are packed with lots of sledders and drift boats around every corner. If you are going to try it on your own, launch @ Riverside and go upstream to Carver. You will see alot more going up then coming down. Take your time and be safe. Again good luck, have fun, and keep a watchfull eye.

[Captjohn]

Let me start by saying that jet sleds are like loaded guns when operated on the braided waters of the northwest. You should always take running a river seriously and boat within your abilities. Running rivers is an art and “reading” water is the path not “remembering” which line to take.

I have personally seen the material damage, injuries and life loss first hand. As you are aware “hitting” has many definitions and can lead to minor scrapes to unbelievable energy transfer. You have to keep in mind that you are operating within inches of solid rock and with today’s new boats and engines sometimes at amazing speeds. In addition to you hitting bottom, running into another boater or god for sake a swimmer is an occurrence that happens several times a year. Even the most experienced whitewater boat operators can hit something.

So all of you please be careful out there and don’t become a statistic. Once again “boat within your abilities”. We here at Clackamas County Fire District #1 are always welcome to lend a hand or answer questions on river reading. We normally operate on the Clackamas River and are out every Monday all year round to keep our required boat hours up. Give us a wave and we will be more than happy to stop.

“Life jackets don’t work if you don’t wear them”
Captain John Oliver
Clackamas County Fire District #1

[metalhead madness]

See there he is :grin: . Thanks for being there for us Capt Oliver [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Hogmaster]

Hi,

My name is Gary and I am a sledaholic!

Isn't this some kind of intervention? :grin:

I have hit bottom.

I have left the river. It caused no damage. Unbelievable but true. See here for the Black Duck Incident

That was the Sandy, but pretty much every other time I have had the fun of finding bottom, it has been on the Clack, especially around Barton.

I have bounced a boat and blown holes in it.

I have parked a sled in the middle of the Clack that would have sunk had it not been in 4 inches of water. That was my first sled.

I have had a shoe welded.

Several times I have gotten to reshape shoe guards.

Today I bought a new shoe. It was not worth the shop time to put it back together. Do not ask how you find bottom going upstream on the Clack when it is running at 13.5, because I don't want to tell you. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

But it is possible. Even when totally sober and knowing how to run the river. The river changes all the time. And despite what Hogtide wrote, if the spot you try to run is shallow enough, you can find the bottom going upstream too. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Any sledder who runs the Clack, especially around Barton and up, that tells you they haven't bumped bottom is either fibbing, extremely lucky, or they haven't done it much. That is why shoes are made of aluminum.

Usually a bump is accompanied by a jerk on the tiller. Ok, so the jerk is attached to the tiller. But there is another jerk, a sharp one. If you are travelling at speed and you bang bottom, the best advice is to GET TO THE RAMP AND TRAILER THE BOAT WITHOUT STOPPING. You may have punctured the hull or cracked a shoe, but stopping will only exacerbate the problem.

I blew out the seal on my water intake for the washdown system once from the force of a bump on the bottom of the boat. My buddies and I considered keeping on fishing because we didn't know, but there was a hole about the size of a quarter below the water line at the transom. I reconsidered and we trailered the sled to look for damage. If we had kept fishing we may never had made it to the ramp!

Chalk bumps and shoes up to the cost of boat ownership and they are easier to swallow. You may never hit by staying aware, but the Clack changes constantly. I started fishing it in 86, and it was pretty stable until the floods of 96 and 97. Ever since then it changes every year, and will shoal in new places even during the course of the winter with just higher than normal flows.

Be careful, be aware, wear those PFDs, keep a cell phone handy, be prepared to spend a few bucks for repairs, and most importantly, never follow my line, and you will probably be fine.



PS - I would just get a drift boat, but man, you aught to see me on the sticks! :shocked:

[jimh]

First, I'm assuming you are talking outboard. Sudden stops aren't pleasant (wear PFDs)!

Most of the smaller outboard sleds don't have to go fast to be on plane. The slower you are going the less likely you are to do major damage. Use this to your advantage in unfamiliar water. Also, it is easier to go down river with limited power than up river. Plan your trips to go upriver instead of downriver if possible. In most rivers, you won't have any problems making it down river with minimal power since it will take much less power to plane going down river.

The most common case is to suck gravel when the water gets shallow and hang it in your intake grate. At that point, one of two things will happen. Either you'll ground or lose power and float down river. If the current is slow, that isn't much of a problem. However, if the current is fast and you start floating down river, you need to be ready to control your boat...fast.

An alternative means of control is important in this situation as well as some means to anchor. Oars would be helpful in this case if you can get on them. A kicker is better than nothing. Practice this maneuver before you need it.

After you get the boat stopped, you'll need to clean the grate. Strong pliers are useful to take the rocks out. I strongly suggest testing the pump and making sure you can get back on plane before attempting any challenging areas. Don't free the boat from the bar until you clean the grate. Futhermore, test the engine before you back the boat off the bar.

If you have to push the boat off a gravel bar, you and your passengers will need protection for the cold water. In other words, waders!

Finally, this may be an over simplification. It doesn't hurt to get some training either by going with someone who knows what they are doing or paying a guide.

[Captjohn]

Please be careful of recommendations when giving people information about navigation. jimh - You might re-check your upriver and downriver references. After 25 years of jet sled operations and 11 years of teaching whitewater boat operations, going upriver is usually your best bet. It takes much less power to plane and your hull in a positive attitude allowing for more control. I tell people to remember that your transom can be considered to be a large sheet of plywood. Try holding a sheet of plywood in moving water, the physics of water will beat you at even the slowest of speeds. Point her into the current and let the hull do the work.

Captain John Oliver

[Redbull]

'What happens when you hit?'

Well as a passenger, I have always looked over at Reeldick, raised an eyebrow and then glanced back at Hogmaster to witness the classic deer in headlights look. Frankly, since Hog has no problem poking fun at himself for all of his 'experiences,' I'll help:

"When NOAA wants to update a chart, they call Hogmaster. No need to send the Govy boys - R&D's already been done."

"Hog's the only guy I know who orders a PAIR of new shoes for his sled before going back to school each fall."

"Having 911 in you speed dial...d'oh"

"Having your welder on speed dial...d'oh"


Personally, I generally experience severe back pain which is due to bending over so hard and fast to pick up your pride and wallet.

1. Turn on bilge pump and see if you can get or stay on step.

2. McGyver yourself a quick plan - anchor, beach, duct tape, fellow boater...

Oh ya, did I say something about life jackets...? Ask anybody on the board I've fished with, it's just 'my thing.'

[ 01-20-2004, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Redbull ]

[onstep]

I would highly reccomend a small tool kit, shoe, liner, and impellar. In my opinion it's like having a spare for your trailer never to expensive when you really need it. I would just book a trip with Dave Johnson its a lot cheaper when you do the math. 2 guided trips a month is a lot less than the cost of maintaining and owning a sled.

[Digifish]

WOW :shocked:
I don't own a sled but I'm reading this post like I do! Seems like really good tips for riding a sled...fascinating and cool.

This is the kind of discussion that makes ifish so valuable. Everybody sharing to help others have fun and stay safe.

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[metalhead madness]

On step has a great point , but If you start taking your family like I do it could run you 450 to 750 per trip not including tip. Not to mention week long trips to the cenral Oregon lakes. If I was the only one that fished in my family I might just sell the jet.

[Billy Tillamook]

Thank-you all for your valuable input! This has been kind of a jet boaters forum if you will. I believe our collective experiences, hints etc.go a long ways in keeping our passengers,other river users, ourselves and our boats in a safer environment.I have lived on the banks of the clack for 5 years now and I must say that I am slighty suprised by the few times I have seen anybody were life vests... the reality is that of the hundreds of sleds I've seen go by I could count on one hand the number of boats that had vests on! I'm not getting up on my high horse here it just suprises me. This is not counting John Oliver and his fire boat boys, these fellas are probably more experienced then anyone at running the river and they are always "vested-up" that tells me something about being prepared for the worst. I am a very strong swimmer, but I had the unfortunate experience of going for a swim in 42 degree water years ago without a vest and trust me on this one PLEASE...you won't last long no matter how strong you swim! I almost bit it! A long story short but a sheriff showed up at the scene with a cute little golden retriever named Sally I asked what she did because she had a doggie vest on and the sherrif looked me square in the eyes and told me that "Sally was the cadaver retrieval dog, we almost needed her today" Scared the *&#@ out of me! :shocked: Things happen so unbelievably fast! I don't know where I read it but " LIFE JACKETS AREN'T DORKY, DROWNING IS! Thanks again for all of your replies... Billy

[Jennie@ifish]

I have experienced two hits.

One time, my seat was fastened down, (the clamp on the lid, locked) but my friend's wasn't. He ended up two feet in the air. I don't mean measurements, I mean his physical feet were towards the sky, laying on his back.

So, lock down the seats!!! Another thing that is a good idea, is to have the locks on the back.

Anyhow, the other time, I won't say who I was with... but, hitting sand with aluminum is an eye opener. It doesn't slide AT ALL.

Even at very low speeds! So, we hit. I was half standing on the back seat, one knee on seat, one foot on the floor, when we hit. I actually did a catapult somersault, and landed between the front seats, on my back. I mean, we were going less than 5 mph!

It's rough. Please be careful! It hurted! :shocked:

Jen

[night stocker]

I have run up a gravel bar or two or three in my time.There was no real damage short of sucking up gravel in the grates.You will notice a severe lack of power.I just try to make it back to the launch if I can plane.I only ran the Deschutes once.What a huge mistake that was.I started out at the mouth and ran upstream.I was doing ok for a few miles and then I seen the big rock I thought I was going to go right over.Not...Bam!I knew it was a bad hit.I had no steering at all.I looked at the engine and I saw the grates dangling there.Uh oh,we have a problem.So,I head back downstream with what steering that was left.It did pull really hard to one side.After about a half mile,what steering I had left,left.I started my kicker and managed to steer down the river.I came to a corner or two on the way and didn't have enough power to avoid rocks too good.Or, go where I wanted to go.Additional damage!Well,got back to Heritage Landing in one piece.Damage-800 skins to the engine,a buckled transom,a few dents and scratches,and a very wounded pride.That Duckworth is one tough boat though,as it hit at about 20mph.It is battle scarred and proven.Lessons learned,don't drink too much and don't run the mighty D.The next day, I putted out to the Columbia and limited out on steely,s.I don't know what compelled me to try running the D.

[Billy Tillamook]

ttt

[BigFish]

Does anyone wear the kill cord?

I learned my lesson with a prop sled and now with the jet I still use it. Have been told many times, "I have never seen anyone use one of those".

Maybe it's from my experience in bass boats at 70mph :shocked: Out of control, high horse power is dangerous.