Rifle question

Robert · 10-25-2001, 09:28 PM

Does anyone know anything about the browning semi auto (BAR)? Thanks Robert

Snake9t9 · 10-25-2001, 11:13 PM

Last time I checked it was the only semi-auto offered in magnum calibers. Browning quality is also first rate. My next gun will be the BAR in 300 win mag.

Lured In · 10-26-2001, 07:37 AM

My dad just bought one in .300 Win Mag and he loves it. I got to shoot it and it is awesome! The kick is not as bad as some bolt .300's and as was mentioned it is tough to beat Browning quaility.

FYI: They are like a Swiss watch and servicing them is no easy task. Go to www.browning.com and you can download the owners manual and take a look at the mechanics. The general recommendation is that because they are so reliable, you do not have to disassemble the bolt/reciever mechanism to clean it. Just wipe it down and put a few drops of oil on the bolt. It is important; however, to use an amonia based bore cleaner as the magnum rifles virtually melt copper jackets and the fouling can build up. It then has to be professionally serviced to fix it.

I will probably get a BAR in 7mm nex year if the money tree produces a good harvest. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

OneLastCast · 10-28-2001, 04:43 PM

LuredIn

My wife just gave me a 300 Win for my birthday (Bolt action). I have always shot a 30-06. Do I have to worry about this copper buildup in my gun? I shoot federal premium and have put 40 rounds through without a cleaning.

OneLastCast

brshooter · 10-28-2001, 06:45 PM

Probably will want to get some Sweets bore cleaner. Probably the best for copper fouling. You can get it from Russ Haydens S******* Supply up in Gig Harbor. He will ship it to you.

Zen Leecher aka Bill W · 10-29-2001, 07:52 AM

I know the Browning semi is heavy and you have to drop the floorplate to load the clip, and if you reload for it you have to make sure your reloads will cycle the action in cold weather.

I'm not a big BAR fan as my preference runs to accurate bolt rifles.

Don't take this as me saying the BAR's aren't accurate. The ones I shot were with both factory ammo and reloads... but I really don't want one that I have to drop the floorplate to reload a clip, or replace a clip.

Not a fan of clips either as I prefer the built in ones. If you can't hit a deer in less than 5 shots, then more ammo won't do anything other than make the ammo makers happier.

Now to finish up by ending with something good about BARs.. I did say they are accurate... and they are pretty too.

Please make my Browning a Citori.

Lured In · 10-29-2001, 08:05 AM

As brshooter said, better to be safe than sorry. I believe the copper fouling is a result of the heat that is generated by the round and not just because it is an autoloader. The Browning shop recommended an ammonia based bore cleaner so if Sweets has it, it should work fine.

Good luck.

Zen Leecher aka Bill W · 10-29-2001, 08:21 AM

copper fouling is due to rough barrels which scrape copper off the bullet jacket as it travels down the barrel.

All barrels scrape copper off to some degree as it's impossible to make them glass smooth. But there is a big difference between lapped barrels and rough barrels.

Ruger used to have the roughest in the industry. They've either changed barrel providers or the barrel maker changed methods.. not sure which.

Some barrels will take a lot of shooting before the copper fouling causes problems.

NMC Highpower s******* usually fire about 88 rounds in a match before they get to clean the rifles. Rifles shoot as good at the 88th round as the 1st one.

One match I came real close to smacking three on top of each other at 500 yards with a peep sight. Last two were same hole and the preceding one was about an inch out. (the planets were aligned...) Also nice when it's in the X ring.

Fish Hunter · 10-29-2001, 10:42 AM

I had an older M77 Ruger. Loved the tang safety. Hated the fact that it would never get as clean as I like. Hated that it would NEVER be on zero from year to year. Someone told me Ruger milled some of them out too fast making ragged cuts that would hold copper. I had a ton of work into it. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] Finally traded it in on my Browning A-bolt. What a sweet dependable firearm.

Zen Leecher aka Bill W · 10-29-2001, 10:48 AM

Fish Hunter,

Your gripe about guns not maintaining zero is the same as mine.

Most of that happens to wood stocked firearms. The moisture content isn't the same from year to year. The stock swells and contracts because of that. Hence, zero changes.

We could be talking a big change in zero (2 inches) or a small change (1/2 inch).. but it does change.

Fish Hunter · 10-29-2001, 01:03 PM

Sure like the looks of the natural wood stock, but I'll probably be sticking with synthetic or laminates from here on out for rifles that see any weather. Part of the work on this Ruger was a free floated barrel and an epoxy bed job. I also totally refinished the stock in an effort to reseal it but could not find an improvement. Also had a 50$ trigger job on it, 3# pull! Might have been a good candidate for a new barrel, but I wasn't sure even that would fix it for sure. You should see all the cases for the ammo I went though trying to figure it out. Anyone want some 7mag brass? The gun's zero would shift up and down from month to month 2 or 3 inches. Leupold checked out the scope for me and the mounts were solid. All in all I think it depended upon how much copper was in the barrel at the time. Glad that guns in the past!

Zen Leecher aka Bill W · 10-29-2001, 01:21 PM

You could try "fire-lapping" your barrel to smooth out the rough edges of the lands.

Not sure how often you clean your rifle, but if you did it every 20 rounds it may come close to maintaining a zero.

Some rifles do shoot better with lots of fouling as it fills up the rough spots.

I "fire-lapped" a couple of my revolvers to see if I could improve the accuracy. Didn't improve it any I could see, but I have 53 year old eyes. Maybe if I had an Aimpoint on it I'd see a difference.

One difference I did see from "fire-lapping" was reduced leading in the revolvers.

This was last winter's project and gave me an excuse for weekly visits to my gun range.

I shoot wood stocks on my guns and haven't gone to plastics inspite of the potential for wandering zeros.

Here's a couple of other things that could affect a gun's zero... and the brshooter on here is more of an expert at this than I am.

1)How you hold the gun and how tight you hold it.
2)How you have the butt on your shoulder.
3)face positioning on the stock (has to do with parallex and I see you had Leupold check out your scope
4)changing your reload components
5)where the gun sits on your sandbags
6)how you sit on the stool at the bench and position your body and feet (splitting hairs)
7)how good/grainy your eyes feel, how much coffee, cigarettes, low blood sugar, tired...
8)the condition of the light at the range, i.e... sunny/cloudy conditions

Just curious, but have you ever looked at the crown of your barrel? That would affect group size, but not sure about zero.

email me if you'd like to discuss things further.