Elk Rifle - Which Caliber?

[WaterDog]

I'm looking for some advice on which caliber is right for elk. I'm primarily going to hunt in Eastern OR. I know nothing about the bigger caliber's. My only experience is with my Marlin 30-30. I've hunted the coast range for blacktail for the last 18 years and I'm want to head east next year. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

So for the next year you can count on me asking all sorts of questions regarding gear, accessories, equipment and locations.

So tell me which is caliber is best and why?
Thanks. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Rich

[Fish Hunter]

I like the .338 Win mag. It throws a big rock at good velocity. Ballistics tables will show you it shoots fairly flat and the heavy bullet will resist the wind well. No round will make up for bad shot placement, but a good one with a tough bullet may give you enough penetration to help you track. My A-bolt has a boss on it so the recoil is manageable. Until I work up an elk hand load I will keep using the Federal 250 gr high energy premium factory ammo. My rifle shoots it well and the down range energy is incredible, 4350 ft-lbs at the muzzle and 2395 ft-lbs at 400 yards. I've got the gun if I ever get to go to Alaska hunting too.

[winterkill]

I use a 30.06 and it works fine for basically anything within 300-400 yards. My dad used to use a 30-30.One time he shot a 5 point bull, knocked it down, went to get the rest of people from his hunting party and when he got back the elk was gone. He tracked it with lots of blood at first, then it tappered off and eventually lost the elk. I've also used a .264 lots of people say it is a deer gun and can't take an elk down, but tell that to all the horns in our barn. The 7mm is a great gun for elk as well, it has long range and good power for elk.

[SeanD]

The best elk gun is one that you can shoot well. That said, my vote goes for the .338 mag, .300 mag, and .35 whelen. A 30.06 or 7 mag are adequate, so's a .308 or .270, but elk are tough animals, and i prefer a little bigger gun. But the most important thing is to be able to shoot well. A good hit in the lungs with a .308 is way better than a bad hit with a .338 mag. But a good hit with the bigger guns will probably leave an exit hole, and more blood to follow if you must do so. I use a 300 win mag with 180 grain nosler partition handloads, and i couldnt be happier. The last elk i killed was a bull and it broke a rib going in and going out through the lungs. It ran about 30 yards up a hill before it died, and blood pumped out five feet to each side as it went up the hill. But the bigger guns also have more recoil, and a .300 mag is about my limit that i can stand to sit down and shoot. Shoot a .338 or .300 before you buy one.
There are some opportunities for some longer shots in eastern oregon, and the 300 or 338 are good on range performers. I think a lot of people get too caught up on that though, because the difference between say a 300 and a 30.06 ballistic wise is really not that great. A 200 yard zero on a 300 will drop for example 20 inches at 400 yards, when a 30.06 will drop 27 inches, but whats 7 inches when you already have to compensate for 20? If you dont know the range you shouldnt shoot anyway, and if you know the range you can compensate. And the difference at 300 yards in only 2.5 inches.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: SeanD ]

[Snapset]

Whatever gun you go with, make sure your bullets are up to the task of big bones and deep flesh. If your initial muzzle velocity is over 2800fps, use a premium slug like a nosler or barnes. (Core-Lokt is not a premium slug)

[Artwo]

WD,
See the post about the new Remington 300 Ultra Mag, it's getting some great reviews. I just read an article (don't remember which magazine it was in) on this new caliber and it appears to be very impressive.

JK

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

I'll offer my opinion on elk guns.

I don't favor the .338 for a long range elk gun. Reason:... bullets are made more for short or medium range work. With the 250 grain bullet, the .338 has the trajectory curve of the .30/06. And most people agree the .30/06 isn't a long range elk gun.

A good compromise gun with plentiful factory ammo available is the 7mm Mag. It won't pound you any more than the .30/06 which is most people's limit for tolerable recoil.
It shoots flat, has lots of power, doesn't kick all that much, has good choices for factory ammo (available at most stores).

Now if you ask me what I carried when I hunted elk with a rifle.... I'd answer a .338. My logic was I hunted in a very popular elk area and if I saw a bull I wanted to smack him as hard as I could. Didn't want him to run any more than 20 yards and wanted a very visible blood trail.

The .300 Win Mag is a good one too, but most of them kick hard off of a bench (has to do with cartridge and stock design). I took one on a moose hunt and a 180 grain Nosler partition went clear thru 3 foot of moose. I've never recovered a partition as they keep on going.

Any rifle from the .270/.280/.30/06 class and on up will work on elk with a good bullet selection.

[SeanD]

I agree with Zen and Snapset, the bullets are a very important part of the package, perhaps even more important then the caliber (within reason). Premium factorys or hanloads lith noslers, grandslams, barnes, etc, are waaaay better than standard factory bullets.

[Baldpate Basher]

I'd offer my opinion, with my vast experience, but the fact is I don't have any experience. I’ve never even gone elk hunting in my life.

I’d really like to and will probably go next year with friends. But I don’t know what type gun to buy or what caliber.

So looking at charts on mussel velocities and listening to everyone around, I think the best gun for the Buck (pardon the pun) is the 30-06. Why? You can buy more combinations of bullets and powders in almost every store in America.

I had one back when I went shooting but didn’t do much hunting. Mine was a Remington 700 ADL. It shot well but I didn’t like the cheap optics I had on it. The scope worked fine, I just didn’t trust it. Needless to say when the time came to shoot a deer I missed. In my own defense, I was up a very tiny pine tree that was blowing around like a flag. I shouldn’t have even taken the shot.

The only other rifle I ever owned was a 7mm Mauser. This caliber is probably a bit light for elk but could work well for deer. I say could because I never even saw a deer when I had the thing in my hands.

The only thing that really matters is can you shoot with the thing. With the guns I had, I could shoot well enough at the range but had bad luck in the field. (Mostly no deer) I’ve shot some other guns, like .338 mag, 35 Rem, 30-cal carbine, M16, M14 and many shotguns. But I’m mostly a duck hunter and have only had limited luck at even getting out to hunt deer. So unless you are looking for the opinion of a guy who has only a learner’s perspective, you would probably do better to listening to these ‘died in the wool’ elk hunters.

Just remember that everyone on this BB will help out any way they can. You may even find some that will let you try they favorite rifles just for fun. Any takers?

Well, good luck and good hunting!

[TheRogue]

Sean is right on............ If you can't shoot it, it doesn't matter what the ballistics are, it won't work. A .338 bullet through the guts isn't much different than a .243 bullet through the guts!! My .300winmag is the most I want to handle for sighting in off the bench, and blasting squirrels and yotes in the offseason. There are many people who get really "flinchy" with anything above a .270. Try to shoot some friend's rifles, if you can. Buy the largest caliber you can comfortably shoot. If you stop at .270, that's fine. Just realize that you should not take that quartering away 300 yd shot that you might be more justified taking with the .300 or .338 caliber.

Of course, there are muzzle brakes...if you don't like anyone hunting with you!!

kyle

[CAGEY]

Well you went and posted an item that will get you lots of opinions. My wife says i know everything so you should have just took my advice.
I have hunted those buggers for around 30 years. I have used the 30-06 and for the last 20 years a 7mm mag. I prefer the mag. My hunting partners carry a variety of rifle calibers and they have all killed elk with them. Just dont get one that kicks the crap out of you. Get a good 06, or something a little bigger and you will be happy. Just remember that although you will be hunting in eastern oregon does not mean you will be making those 400 yard shots like you do for deer. Your average shot for elk in eastern oregon will be generally around 100 yards and a little longer in some area's depending on where you hunting. What you want is good knowkdown power and matching the bullets to the gun is extremely important. Good Luck.

[birdhunter]

Another vote for the 7mm mag. Takes down elk hard and is great for those long shots at Eastern Oregon deer too. Excellent bear gun as well.

[Dogfish]

Guns that I have carried for elk include:

.308 Win with 180 g, nosler partition
.300 Win Mag, 150 g, barnes x
.30-06, 150 g, barnes x
.54 caliber Muzzle loader, 425 grain HP solid base
12 gauge fully rifled, open sights, 1 oz.(438 grains) sabot slug.

All will take an elk down with proper shot placement. The .270 Win is the smallest I personally would head out with. Anything bigger than the modern rifles listed should work fine, but get close no matter what caliber you choose. That will take away a few varibles like drift, drop, loss of KE due lower FPS, reduces sho oter error factor, etc. It also takes more skill.

Andy

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Dogfish ]

[Baldpate Basher]

Bird,
I had no idea you were crazy enough to hunt something that hunts back? Bear and cougar are a bit too dangerous for the likes of me.

I’ll stick to doing my part by ridding the world of those dangerous, dreaded, dive-bombing Dux. They are a plague on all mankind.

A little over the top on that one maybe?

OK, where my PROZAK!

[Dogfish]

Howdy Bill,

I gotta agree with you there. You know what I do for practice, but maybe some of the others don't.

I get lots of off-hand practice on live game about every weekend, with an average of 20 shots per day taken over a period of 6 months from July through January. Do you guys shoot that much? What it comes down to is that I spot and stalk game regularly. When it comes time for a shot, I don't wait for the crosshairs to stop moving, I shoot when the crosshairs are in place.

Of course, my live game is barn pigeons, and my weapon of choice is a 9 pound Webley adult air rifle in .22 cal (no dirty pictures on it, but it takes a man to c-ock it.) I have a 4X scope with parallax adjustment, and the spring air rifle has some recoil to it. This makes for excellent practice, and I rarely get "buck fever" before a shot on deer or elk, but afterwards the adrenaline does dump. The rifle is similar in weight to my others, if not heavier than most.

Some of you might laugh, but these birds have been hunted pretty hard by me and my buddy Steve for over 4 years. They don't like it when the bad men come, and some birds leave when they see my truck. Try head shots at 25+ yards on pigeons. It's a challenge.

Half of the hunt for me is getting close. Try sneaking up on elk in a pasture with grass about 2" tall. Get close, practice, and respect the "game".

Good question, Bill.

Andy

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Dogfish ]

[birdhunter]

Baldpate - Oh man, now I know you're from the East Coast. They're called wigeon man!!! Find your pills!

Actually I've killed both black bear and cougar. I love doing the spring bear hunts or picking up a bruin during the fall. Dat's good meat. Cats on the other hand are more of a novelty. I've had them come in to predator calls and also try to grab me. I don't think you can get any bigger rush than hunting something that is also hunting you.

Zen - Stir the pot is right! I suppose people might be using larger caliber rifles so they can shoot farther, ie they don't have to sneak as close to the animals. Still, having a big gun doesn't do you any good if you can't find any animals to shoot at with it. Generally speaking, hunters today probably aren't as connected to the woods as their forefathers were, but who is? America itself is a very different place than it was 100 years ago. With increasing urbanization, most Americans are far removed from the outdoors. Only seems logical to me that they wouldn't be as good of hunters, or be lazy about it.

I still know plenty of people (like myself) who will find a track and follow it till they find the animal. It takes some knowledge of the woods and animal behavior to do that. You can only gain that through experience and with less experience in the woods, people have a harder time "hunting" game as opposed to "shooting" it. I should clarify that my definition of hunting would be going after a specific animal or herd, as opposed to blundering about, stumbling onto some critters and "shooting" one of them. Just my 2 cents.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: birdhunter ]

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

Doggyfish, I didn't have you in mind when I wrote my "pot stirrer". You beat me on pigeons, but if I had your air rifle to shoot on paper and figure out it's trajectory, you'd better watch out.

I think I might have had some of my occasional hunting partners in mind. I have one that's so "relaxed" on hunting that he has me sight his rifles in for him. Maybe his madness is that I'm more precise on sighting a rifle in than he is. I was gonna say "a nal" but thought the editor would *** it.

I'm kinda a lazy hunter too as I prefer eastern WA or Montana where I can get a good sitting area and then sit and glass. Once I spot something that's big enough to interest me, different story. But my method is the walk a bit, stop and glass and after some time for serious glassing, move on to the next good looking spot.

One of my partners wanted to use my .300 Mag one year as he thought it would stomp anything he shot. Well, it did, it stomped one deer. Knocked it down and left a hair cloud hanging in the air... also stomped him over the right eye when he did a little stock crawling, trying to shoot prone on a buck antelope. Recoil was a little much for him as he flinched while shooting it... boogered up a buck by hitting it too far back also.

Besides being a lazy hunter I also have the bad habit of staying in my sleeping bag in the morning and letting my hunting partners light the stove....

[bigshark]

Bill W

Now you have done it....you have gone too far. Ouch...Ouch...The truth you speak hurts....I'm only having fun here as I think there are as many good hunters as there ever was. I suspect that a larger percentage have not learned as an apprentice at dads or older brothers side. Hence, less experience
on the job and more out of the magazines. I have an article in front of me written by the outdoors editor of the Dallas Morning News (Texas) dated Oct 14, 2001 (page 27B). In which he(Mr.Ray Sasser)states that the best patterning choke at 40 yards, when using steele shot, is the improved cylinder. Well I currently own 9 shotguns and his statement is not correct for any of my guns and they have been fed every factory load I know of as well as many different handloads. Its a hobby for me, but he is paid by the inches of his column. The same article gives a number of "tips", as he calls them, that are just as bad. A hunting buddy that now lives down there sent me this article as he knew how much "fun" I would find in reading it. Bill, my point is that some have been exposed to this kind of "knowledge" sources and will repeat what they have been told. But fellas let me tell you what this old Geezer has learned the had way.....And I'll bet that Bill has too.... The truth has great leverage in it, that leverage is time. In time the truth always comes out......And this is a really great part of hunting. Each
season you have more knowledge about how to hunt that favorite spot, what worked better than the year before etc. Equipment is the same way.....and so on. But back to the pot stirring.....these guys who shoot at elk at 700 yds and more and need a bigger gun...Bill
I think they would do much better if they just swooped down on the critter from the sky
and let their F18 do most of the work...At least their scopes wouldn't fog-up...

[img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[WaterDog]

Zen, I agree with you. I think in SOME cases the larger cal is to make up for lack of skill. Note I said some. I know a guy that uses a .378 weatherby or something. He is a very skilled hunter and just likes big guns. Some have said they like the “knock down” power. Elk are pretty big. I for one do not enjoy chasing a wounded animal. But I do agree that a gun wont do you any good if your afraid of it when you squeeze the trigger. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

The 06 and 7mm mag sound like good choices and I’m going to look into those. I’m thinking A Remington BDL or mountain rifle, maybe stainless maybe not. Ruger and Browning are on the short list as well. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

Waterdog,

One bit of serious advice I'd pass on to you is try and find a rifle with a little recoil pad on it. The metal ones (older rifles) and some of the plastic ones whack new s******* a little too hard.

I had a Rem 788 in a .308 that was one of the nastiest rifles I had until I took off the plastic buttplate and put on a 1/2 inch pachmyr pad. An old 03-A3 Springfield was another one.

[bigshark]

Waterdog
Please excuse my poking fun at the subject. For what it is worth I am very recoil shy dispite the fact I look like a 900 lb ape.
I would look for a fairly straight stock
(not much drop at the heel). What ever cal. you choose will give you less "felt" recoil this way. For years the 06 was as heavy as I could go, but when the 7mm mag came along I
found I able to take its recoil ok. For me, the cheekbone recoil is what hurts and the straight stock makes all the difference in the world. Good luck with your choice.

[CAGEY]

For all of you that are worried about recoil.
there is an item called a muzzle break that pretty well takes the punch out of the big rifles. Iam considering putting one on my 7mm. When iam shooting at an animal i never feel the recoil. When iam sighting in, "ouch".
Rich if you want to try out a 7mm mag you can borrow mine after elk season. You should try one befor you buy one. Cagey.

[WaterDog]

Bigshark,
No problem, I enjoy the joking and good humored banter. I liked your F18 comment. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Some guys really like to hurl lead. Not me. I’m a close hunter and besides, after all the years hunting in the coast range, I like short and light guns. It’s just what I’m used to. The addition of a scope is going to take some getting used to. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] But that’s another topic for another day.

Ken I might take you up on that. Thanks. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: WaterDog ]

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

Cagey,

Make sure you aren't setting yourself up for some additional hearing loss with a muzzle brake.

I'd be more inclined to use a PAST strap on shoulder pad to reduce the recoil than add a muzzle brake to a gun.

My personal recoil limit was a .340 Weatherby that I had to work on for a friend and then sight in. He said "there was something wrong with his sights"... turned out that other than a major stomping on the butt end of the gun there wasn't a problem.

The .338 is a pussycat compared to the .340. At least that's my opinion.

Oh, shooting magnum loads out of a 12 gauge at a patterning board isn't fun either.

[Lured In]

Just to add to the conversation about getting whacked...I shoot a .270 Winchester with 150 grain rounds for elk. As has been said before this is a little light for elk, so be careful about shot placement.

My dad and I were out at the range last Friday before the season sighting in one last time and he let me shoot his new Browing BAR in .300 Win Mag. For those of you not familiar with it, this is an autoloader. I must say I was very impressed and it barely kicked more than my .270. For the VERY recoil shy, consider the BAR in 7mm, .280 or even .300 if you are feeling frisky. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Dogfish]

I have a muzzle break on my .308. Its a little Enfield 2A, and no butt pad. I fired 40 rounds through it one day, just for fun, and had no ill affects. Recoil was very light, but the blast was quite loud with both foam plugs and muffs.

Can't say the same for the day I sighted in my new slug barrel and forgot the PAST recoil pad. Black and blue, didn't fire a rifle for 10 days after (call me wimpy, but I hurt myself), and that was after only 20 slugs.

[Johnson_Bar]

Just a quick question, isn't the case size (other than bullet diameter) the same on a 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, and 338 ? I also think from my experience with the 7mm that bullet weight makes a huge difference in recoil.

[bigshark]

Bill Johnson

Hi Bill,
I misread your post and thought you were talking about the bullets and not the casings......That what happens when I skip my nap. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: bigshark ]

[SeanD]

The .338 and 7 mag are the same case, but the .300 is actually just a tad longer. I agree bullet weight makes a big difference in recoil. A 175gr 7 mag will kick a lot harder than a 140gr, and the 250gr .338 kicks even harder. A lot has to do with stock and recoil pad design also. I sold a 7 mag that felt like it kicked me a lot harder than my .300, and my dads 30.06 feels like it kicks harder than my 06, even though it weighs two more pounds.

[bigshark]

Bill Johnson

You are talking about the cases and not the bullets......Sorry, I'm past my bedtime and
didn't read your post carefully at all. It would be interesting to know if you are correct....It would be the first time that Remington and Winchester ever did each other a favor let alone make it easier on us.

[bigshark]

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: bigshark ]

[Snake9t9]

a couple of odd ball calibers here but there my favs. For a west side up close and personal brush busting elK load, how about the 45.70 gov. And for the longer range clear cut and east side work, a .308 Norma mag. with these two in the truck you can cover any situation you intend to wade into.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Snake9t9 ]

[SeanD]

Very true, the 45.70 packs a wallop, and the .308 norma offers everything the .300 mag does, and its different. My next elk rifle will be the 35 Whelen. 30.06 case necked up to 35 caliber. i think im gonna do a 03 springfield with an aftermarket barrel. That will be different and a very effective elk round. Kinda like rods, you have to have more than two for every kind of possible situation. Course i need the driftboat first, and id like an 1143, and...

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

Just an opinion here, and if you think I'm trying to stir the pot with it, you're right!

I think people don't know how to hunt as good as people did years ago and by not knowing how to hunt as good, they're compensating with larger and larger calibers.

Also I think that people don't shoot as much as they should to be competent with their firearms. Hence, another need for larger calibers, not as precise with smaller ones. Only thing is the "larger caliber" is a double edged sword as it also comes with the need for practice because of the added recoil and flinching because of it.

[HOGTIDE]

I'm mostly a fishin' kinda guy but I have had some rather good success hunting elk the last 10 years or so. I've killed a couple with a .308 at a distance and wished I'd had a bit more 'womp'...had to hit the poor thing several times to get it down.

Used a 7mm mag for about 6 years and it proved to be very effectve. Good bullets will penetrate and exit wapiti, even at a distance, with this rifle. In addition the 7 mag truly doesn't kick much. I believe the term 'magnum' misrepresents this rifle's recoil impact. Federal's Premium 165 gr.Sierra Boattail is a sweet round that retains energy, flies flat and accurate; smacks 'em plenty hard and kicks out a very tolerable recoil on the big 7.

I presently use a .300wby Mag which has the stuff to knock down elk futher than I have the abilty to shoot accurately (past 50 yards???)jk But, when you jump big bulls in thick timber, nothin' seems big enough. You want 'em down now!...so the .300 Wby became a natural stage of my hunting evolution.

However, I believe the 7 mag is still the best of both worlds. Just enough 'kapow' at the muzzle and just an average push at the butt.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Rich
I like the 300 Win mag and anytime you want to go out and shoot one let me know.

I have always been a browning fan and like the A bolt for its simplicity and it came with a 26 inch barrel rather than a 24 inch. It gives me a little more velocity, but not much. I wish I had the BOSS on it. My buddy got a stainless composite A bolt with the BOSS and muzzlebrake. It hurt your ears so bad he changed the BOSS out to one that didnt have the muzzlebreak. The muzzlebrake made your ears hurt more than your shoulder. It required hearing protection while hunting, which I did not like doing. I got no problem putting on the muffs when practicing, but when hunting I like to hear what is going on around me. There isnt time to dig out the muffs when hunting. And I think I may be getting border line tenitis from shooting to much when younger with no protection.

I have been thinking of cutting about 1/2 inch off the stock, but havent really felt like trying to glue the butt pad back on and reshape it, I am sure I will run it across my table saw one of these days soon. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Zen - I agree people are not as good a hunter as they use to be. People do not shoot nearly enough.

[Bait O' Eggs]

As far as talking about how big of a gun to use for elk, I want to share the elk hunt my brother told me about last night. He was hunting the cascades with my dad last week. He spotted a large 6 point and moved into a shooting position at 450 yards. He shoots a browning A bolt 300 win mag with 180 grain factory ammo. The bull is facing away and kind of quartered away (if that makes any sense). He hits the bull about the last rib, the bullet goes thru the diaphram up into the chest cavity, destroying the liver, the bullet lodged in the opposite shoulder. The bull goes down and it looks as if the show is over. It takes them a while to get to the elk and when they do, he is gone. They start tracking blood and go about 300 yards when they hear 3 quick shots. They crest the small ridge and the bull is dead ahead of them. They are the first one to the elk since it was only about 75 feet to the elk. Some guy walks up and says nice bull I got. Their is some debate about who killed the bull. The other guys story is the bull walked around the ridge and he shot it. My brother says the grass was all matted down where the bull was flailing on the ground. My brother thinks the bull was down and this guy shot it while it was down since all the grass was matted and there was blood all over the area. This other guys says BS it was standing. I guess my brother wont ever really know what happened, since he couldnt see it. My brother thinks the bull may have been dead and this guy just put a bullet in it to say it was his. who knows?? Anyway, as you can imagine a ******* match ensues and the guy threatens my brother and dad over the deal. Dad and bro leave him the bull, it had a 40 inch spread and a perfect 6 on both sides.

So how much gun is enough gun for an elk? Obviously the 300 didnt get the job done in this case. My brother is till ticked over the deal, and thinks it was his bull. It would be nice to know if the bull was up or down when the other guy shot.

They are a tough critter.

[Dogfish]

Hi Bait,

This is, again, another example of why it is important to get close to the elk first, then shoot. In good terrain you might be able to cover that distance in 5 minutes, still giving other folks a chance to close in on your kill.

It sounds like your brother hit him a bit high, as the liver is located high in the gut next to the spine. The elk must have bled a lot, but little was done to its lungs or heart. You gotta hit them in the heart, lungs, or break some serious bones for a quick takedown. Any bullet in the same situation would have done the same thing, with the same effect. Shot placement was the issue, just as much as the range the shot was taken from.

As to the possession of the elk, I would have called a game agent, and had them settle it. Walking away from the animal was an excellent choice #2, as no animal is worth dying over.

Sorry for the keyboard quarterbacking of the situation, impossible to avoid.

Wish your brother luck on his next elk from me,

Andy

[Bait O' Eggs]

Zen, I got a pair of brothers. It was not the gammie.

I didnt get the part of the story of where the bullet was placed by the other guy. I will have to call and ask him where the other guy hit the bull. He did say it had 1 more hole in it. I agree the bullet was not the best placement by my brother. But then again anything in the chest cavity is going to drown them in blood soon. It sounded like (as I envisioned the situation) they were shooting about level across a draw. Getting on the same hill with the bull sounded like a tough situation to catch the bull, with the amount of cover where they were hunting.

Maybe they should have left one of the s******* at the shooting location till one of them got to the elk, so if it got up they could put it back down again.

Easy to hindsight quaterback the situation. The other guy took the bull and that is the way it ended up.

I wouldnt be surprised if my brother didnt threaten him also (though he didnt tell me that). I listen to arguements every day at work, and their are always 2 sides to each disagreement. I can only picture a couple hunters wanting to claim a fine prize. I will never know what really happened, just wanted to pass on that elk are tough and big guns dont alway put them down and keep them down.

Wish I would have been there.

[Dogfish]

BOE,

I would have probably done the same thing as your brother, shot, then ran to recover, but it is hard to figure out the trajectory on a 425 grain slug at 450 yards using an open sighted gun. (just a guess, but I think I would have to hold about 10 feet high, give or take 5 feet) Leaving one guy as a spotter, and another acting as the tracker takes a lot more patience than I have.

As sick as it sounds, I think your brother did the right thing in walking away.

Bill,

Which mountain man friend was that who shot the other guy's rifle? On second thought, maybe I don't want to know.

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

He's a guy I knew from work... it's not me...'cause when I shoot them, they don't get back up.

Strange thing was... he was kinda high up in Boeing management and had class.. but when he was hunting... he didn't back down.

[Dogfish]

Well, I guess I'd rather have a guy like that on my side, and not against me.

[Snake9t9]

Hey, good idea!!! A .50 BMG just might be the ticket. Heck we've got snipes shootin' people with em', why not hunters shootin' Elk? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

Maybe there is a place for 20mm's and .50 caliber's in elk hunting.

So, did your brother check and see which way the bullet went from the other guy's shot? If it came from the top of the body down to the brisket, then the animal was down.

Also, if the guy threatened your brother and dad, that's a criminal offense.... at least it is up here in Washington.

Isn't your brother the game warden, or do you have more than one brother? Why doesn't he pay the other hunter a visit and ask what really happened.... this isn't all that hard..

[Zen Leecher aka Bill W]

One of my shooting acquaintances told me a story about 20 years ago about an elk hunt he was on.

He shot an elk somewhere coastal in western WA. It was on the other side of a creek and he had to walk down about a quarter mile to the crossing to get to the other side.

He said as he was walking down there another hunter walked up to his elk and started putting his tag on it. The other hunter told him he couldn't get over there fast enough to prevent him from getting his tag on it and said after he did that, who's to prove what.

Well, my acquaintance must have had a little too much testosterone running around as he raised up with his rifle and shot the other guy's gun in the floorplate. It was resting on a stump.

From what I remember the discussion on who's elk it was and who was gonna tag it ended right there.

[Dogfish]

I fired one of those once. It was a singleshot bolt design, and it used an old .50 cal BMG barrel that had been trimmed down a bit. The darned rifle was still 7 feet long and was nowhere near svelt in appearrance, but it could drill shot after shot into the same fist sized group at 300 yards. I paid the guy $5 bucks for the round. He said he used it for shooting across canyons, out to about 800 yards.

The recoil on that gun, it weighed about 45 pounds, was actually quite manageable. It looked like Paul Bunyun's rifle.

Andy

[bigamehunter]

The bigest you can handle.

[Bohntr]

this thread should have been named " other than a 300 weatherby, what is the next best elk caliber????"oh my answer would be a 300 wby

[larry the jeep guy]

270 or a 30-06. I use a 300win mag most of the time

[gottafish]

Whats really funny is this thread is from 2001 LOL Im thinking waterdog got a gun by now

[shorthair]

Man somebody had to really blow the dust off this one.

[Kokanee Slow]

Yeah! Nine years skipped in the posts till it was flipped up top again?? Interesting read I guess, even after all these years.

[FCJ]

I agree.

[YoungBuck28]

I've seen a couple of these old threads now... hmmmmm

[DogZilla15]

Yea, this topic doesn't come up often enough........3........3.........8........

[bigbuckslayer]

any of the .300's will not dissapoint

[Smokerjet]

i just bought a new 325wsm handloaded some 200gr partitions,cant wait to try it out

[pac10bowhunter]

Carbon Tech Cheetah 300's with a 100gr shuttle t-lock

[BeaverPride]

.50 bmg

[tuna master]

300 win. mag model 70 ultimate shadow