Senate OKs drilling in Alaska's National Wildlife

[StinkyH]

"Senate OKs Drilling In Arctic Wildlife Refuge

From Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Amid the backdrop of soaring oil and gasoline prices, a sharply divided Senate today voted to open the ecologically rich Alaska wildlife refuge to oil drilling, delivering a major energy policy win for President Bush.

The Senate, by a 51-49 vote, rejected an attempt by Democrats and GOP moderates to remove a refuge drilling provision from next year's budget, preventing opponents from using a filibuster -- a tactic that has blocked repeated past attempts to open the Alaska refuge to oil companies.

The action, assuming Congress agrees on a budget, clears the way for approving drilling in the refuge later this year, drilling supporters said.

The oil industry has sought for more than two decades to get access to what is believed to be billions of barrels of oil beneath the 1.5 million-acre coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in the northeastern corner of Alaska.

Environmentalists have fought such development and argued that despite improve environmental controls a web of pipelines and drilling platforms would harm calving caribou, polar bears and millions of migratory birds that use the coastal plain.

Bush has called tapping the reserve's oil a critical part of the nation's energy security and a way to reduce America's reliance on imported oil, which account for more than half of the 20 million barrels of crude use daily. The Alaska refuge could supply as much as 1 million barrels day at peak production, drilling supporters said."

Nothing is sacred...

StinkyH

[mandinga]

:lurk:

Sad.......
Can you say "slippery slope" ?

[Abalone]

Politics aside !

I'd like to see a poll..but I haven't tried this yet.

This subject could get very emotional very fast.
This event to me seems very symbolic of a lot of things.

Major loss for environmentalists. Who do you think will gain the most ?
Who will lose ?

I have never been to Alaska..
Should I even care ?

And please don't get Political...

Should I even care ?

Yes you should care :whazzup:

[Abalone]

Please don't misunderstand me Stew.

I am not expressing how I stand on this issue yet.
I am merely reflecting what I have heard from others while formulating a poll.

I am trying hard not to create a Thread that will NOT end up going down tube in a hail of fire. I know this is a very emotional event that I feel is important to talk about.
Consider what's on the agenda next.

Dams are a natural feature..?? Should I sell my fishing gear now before it become useless ? ??

[Just Fish]

Why go to Alaska for oil we have Iraqs and Suadi Arabias do you believe oil prices are going to drop if we drill in Alaska NOT :depressed:Are getting oil from Alaska already (yes)so were is the oil going that we are pumping now I see a future for some oil buddys here I wonder if Haliburton will get any contracts :blush:Some thing smells bad with this must be a oil spill .

[kamloops]

YEA



Bummer for Maria :depressed:

[The Chub]

Very bad idea IMO. We will not even be able to use these supplys for quite awhile. Also, where is the oil going that is already flowing thru the pipeline??

All of this money could be spent on alternative fuel research. We need to move on and find new ways of making energy!

It would make little difference
From MSNBC
Opening an Alaska wildlife refuge to oil development would only slightly reduce America’s dependence on imports and would lower oil prices by less than 50 cents a barrel, according to an analysis released Tuesday by the Energy Department.
The report, issued by the Energy Information Administration, or EIA, said that if Congress gave the go-ahead to pump oil from Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the crude could begin flowing by 2013 and reach a peak of 876,000 barrels a day by 2025.
But even at peak production, the EIA analysis said, the United States would still have to import two-thirds of its oil, as opposed to an expected 70 percent if the refuge’s oil remained off the market.
At the same time, the report said new Alaska production would stem the expected dramatic decline in domestic production and extend the economic life of the Alaska oil pipeline as production from other North Slope areas declined significantly.
But even the additional domestic production would not be enough to overcome increased demand, meaning continued heavy reliance on imports, the EIA said. Currently, the United States imports about 56 percent of the oil it consumes.

[reeldick]

I'm not quite sure why so many want to save that piece of land from drilling. It is a huge desolate area not good for much else.
The new drilling techniques would be much less intrusive than what was done on the north slope. The animals have adapted to life with a pipeline there so they should easily adapt at ANWR.
Exactly what are we saving this tract of muskeg for?

[Bill Monroe]

I'm not quite sure why so many want to save that piece of land from drilling. It is a huge desolate area not good for much else.

And Eastern Oregon is a vast wasteland good only for cattle; and the Pacific Ocean is a just a lot of water; and the Willamette Valley was only a bunch of marsh before we arrived and drained it into submission...etc...

[Just Fish]

Reeldick how about our grandchildren.Does our generation have to use up all the natural resourses :depressed:I hope not.

[fish-on]

good!!! about time we get taped into our our own resources instead of having to depend on someone else , and good thing as well other wise we might see gas as much as $5 a gallon soon and we all dont want that now do we?? yes it will take away the land up there but its time that we start helping ourselves.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Sorry but I am taking the dark side here and am glad they opened up this small, small, small area of Alaska for drilling. And yes I have been to Alaska 6 times and seen it's beauty and it's uglyness.

[OK Deal Let\'s Fish]

It sounds like this is just a band aid fix for a long term problem. Why damage this land for a temporary fix of crude? I believe the animals will adapt, but at what cost (how have dams effected fish runs?) Is this just the first door to be opened to see how many other doors can be opened?

[Bill Monroe]

Whattaya know, a Beaver agreeing wholeheartedly with a duck!

good!!! about time we get taped into our our own resources instead of having to depend on someone else , and good thing as well other wise we might see gas as much as $5 a gallon soon and we all dont want that now do we?? yes it will take away the land up there but its time that we start helping ourselves.

Actually, yes...I would like to see that. ..because along the way to $5 gas (I also own a diesel truck and that's no economic picnic, either), we'll put emphasis where it belongs...on sustainable instead of fossil fuel.

[StinkyH]

good!!! about time we get taped into our our own resources instead of having to depend on someone else , and good thing as well other wise we might see gas as much as $5 a gallon soon and we all dont want that now do we?? yes it will take away the land up there but its time that we start helping ourselves.

Helping ourselves by exploiting one of _our_ last great wilderness areas? This is a band aid for our gluttonous gasoline use...

StinkyH

[StinkyH]

Whattaya know, a Beaver agreeing wholeheartedly with a duck!

Actually, yes...I would like to see that. ..because along the way to $5 gas (I also own a diesel truck and that's no economic picnic, either), we'll put emphasis where it belongs...on sustainable instead of fossil fuel.

[Just Fish]

They are going to drill for oil we cant stop them now :depressed:I say since this oil is in a wild life perserve.It belongs to all Americans right!Instead of letting the oil tycoons of America get grossly richer lets use the money from the oil to bail out the failing Social Security system and the oil not to be sold no were but there in the good ol USA. :grin:Just a thought.

[CATCH AND EAT]

BTW, the China demand for oil is nothing new. Just a NEW excuse to raise prices. Either that or Gus Orviston is driving a mighty big Caddy over there in Shanghi.

This is a test to see how much the American public will pay for gas and so far we are failing. Will ANWAR help? Probably not much but I think it could send a signal to oil producing countries.

I am surprised that we have not turned our shale oil back into production again. It is profitable at $30 a barrell. Makes ya wonder a bit does'nt it?

[BrianMaguire]

It sounds like this is just a band aid fix for a long term problem. Why damage this land for a temporary fix of crude? I believe the animals will adapt, but at what cost (how have dams effected fish runs?) Is this just the first door to be opened to see how many other doors can be opened?

Do you mean the 26,000 well permits for the Custer National forest? One every 40 acres for the entire forest. It is gone, a road to every well head and all the ponds to be built for the poison water that is produced.

Well I knew that driving those gas guzzling SUV's to take the kids to soccer practice would catch up with us someday
Towing a boat or using SUV's for their intended purpose is fine but come on!!!! seeing women who can barely see over the steering wheel driving these monsters down to Safeway to get a gallon of milk is absurd
Drilling the ANWR is only the beginning

[BrianMaguire]

Well I knew that driving those gas guzzling SUV's to take the kids to soccer practice would catch up with us someday
Towing a boat or using SUV's for their intended purpose is fine but come on!!!! seeing women who can barely see over the steering wheel driving these monsters down to Safeway to get a gallon of milk is absurd
Drilling the ANWR is only the beginning

This is, in part, because every business owner gets a huge tax break by buying a truck over 6000 GVW. You get to write off 50% of the purchase price in the first year. It is like getting 25% off.

[Two Fister]

Yeah! Right!!

By the governments own calculations this sweet deal is going to reduce our dependence on foreign oil from 68% to 65%. Wahoo, I'm gonna go buy me a whole fleet of Excursions cause gas is going to be practically free!

The especially sweet part of the deal is that it'll take 10 years minimum before a single drop ever hits a refinery. It's going to be an unbelievely expensive and difficult construction project. Can you say Halliburton. I knew you could.

And just think about how this oughta take the wind out of OPECs sails! They must be shaking in their boots right now. Probably running over to increase supplies and reduce our costs right now. Well, either that or they are laughing themselves silly over this.

Let's see now:

1) Billions of federal dollars have already been spent on research to pave the way.

2) We'll reduce our foreign dependence by 3%.

3) The oil companies won't have to do nasty things like oil shale, steam extraction, or difficult drilling that cuts into their record profits. Exxon just be came the most profitable company in history with cash reserves of more than $20 billion.

4) And best of all for the oil folks, it'll keep those pesky alternatives at bay for a little bit longer.

In the meantime, Japan, Germany, Sweden, and Iceland (that's right we are being outdone by Iceland) are kicking our butts in the race to be energy self sufficient through hydrogen combustion/fuel cell applications and biofuels.

By the time one drop of ANWAR oil is available we could be well on the way to the same, but apparently that's looking too far forward.

And before anybody shouts that the technology isn't ready, the first hydrogen combustion engine was built in the late 1800s...in France! OK now I really need a drink! Maybe two of them.

Two Fister

[Chromaflage]

seeing women who can barely see over the steering wheel driving these monsters down to Safeway to get a gallon of milk is absurd

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Huh, hardly any one here has ever seen ANWR, much less seen the North Slope or even similar terrain. The amount of development is not going to fall on the Detremental enviroment destroying effects many chicken little enviromentalis are looking for. Wildlife and the oil industry have had a very symbiotic relationship on the north slope for over 30 years. I would fully expect that the ANWR developments should be the same.

[freespool]

Some think that if the US car manufacturers redisigned cars to get 1% better gas mileage, it would equal more than all the crude in ANWR. Go figure. If we as a nation put as much emphisis on weening ourselfs off middle eastern oil, as we do meddling in their internal affairs, we would not have the problems we see today. The hand writing was on the wall in 1974, wake up America, and smell the coffee.


salmon hugger

[CATCH AND EAT]

However, the technology has always been there for high mileage cars and oil companies have bought it up and tucked it away. Imagine that. I am surprise Hybrid cars even made it on the market.

Far as gas guzzlers, I own one but, I have been cycling to work the past two weeks (not that it makes a difference in a global scale) to save money and yep, work a little fat off my behind. More money for boat gas. And a good cardio workout for me. Two fold benefit.

So lets all just quit driving planes trains and automobiles and break out the horse and buggy. Bring back the pooper scoopers!

[kamloops]

Who needs oil, everyone needs a nuclear reactor in their
backyard. Best use of concrete ever invented.

[freespool]

PGE's got one they'll sell ya real cheap. They proved how great those things are.


salmon hugger

[Bill Monroe]

Huh, hardly any one here has ever seen ANWR, much less seen the North Slope or even similar terrain. The amount of development is not going to fall on the Detremental enviroment destroying effects many chicken little enviromentalis are looking for. Wildlife and the oil industry have had a very symbiotic relationship on the north slope for over 30 years. I would fully expect that the ANWR developments should be the same.

I think this is probably true, but to me that's not the issue. There's no question that where oil exploitation has occurred, wildlife hasn't been obliterated and is living somewhat in harmony. But why does it have to? Shouldn't we preserve at least some natural wild areas without going through the process of planned interruption?

And, of course, 30 years is absolutely too soon to call what already has happened a success...I fail to see the symbioism...symbiotic means each gains something from the other....

[Thumper]

It's about time.

[freespool]

Bill it's part of the present administrations plan to squeeze the wild out of wilderness. It has nothing to do with have to, but more like because we can mentality.


salmon hugger

[pijon]

Chicken little environmentalists? ANWR is a long ways away from us. Our salmon and steelhead habitat is a long way away from most of the country. When we fight to try and preserve our fishery and the habitat, others will call us "chicken little environmentalists".

[OK Deal Let\'s Fish]

If they can eliminate the wild salmon and steelhead the opposition will have nothing to fight over.

[skybuster]

I think people may be singing a different tune in the near future. As a business owner that drives about 30K + miles per year for business I can tell you that the gas prices are affecting my bottom line. I also have employees that drive even more than I do, and although I reimburse them for mileage, the cost of fuel is starting to take a serious toll. I will soon be looking into raising prices to offset this problem. I am sure that other businesses are already doing this.

I am not ashamed to admit that I, and my business, are very dependent on oil. Most people are a lot more dependent on oil than they realize or will admit. If prices keep going this way the economy is going to take a hit.

You guys talk about the sky falling if we start drilling. I say the sky is falling if we don't figure out a way to get the oil prices under control. If they can do it without drilling fine. We need to do something though or we are all in trouble.

[freespool]

How about some bright ideas from our fearless leaders on how we can conserve fuel? Where are the tax incentives to conserve? How about lowering the speed limit nationally to 55mph? How about forcing Detroit into building more fuel efficient cars? Nope no help there I guess, but he did ask congress for $80 billon more to finance the war.


salmon hugger

[skybuster]

I don't think anyone is gonna be laughing when gas hits 5 bucks a gallon. I don't care who fixes the problem or what political agenda they have, I just don't want it to cost me 200 dollars to fill my truck up this summer. I can't tow my boat behind a moped either. Right now I could care less who's to blame, I want to know who's gonna fix it.

[freespool]

Skybuster, it's called political will. And at the present time there is no political will in our white house to deal with the oil shortage. So get ready to pay $5 bucks a gallon for gas.


salmon hugger

[BuKuBass]

To those who are agree that this vote is a good thing because of the fear that gas might cost 3,4,5 bucks a gallon:
Y'all don't appear to be any different than the politicians that accept bribes under the guise of "campaign contributions" and vote the way that they're told. Both are instances of rationalization that involve compromising ideals for money. Of course it is a matter of degree. It is up to each individual to draw his own line that he chooses not to cross.

I'm wearing my Nomex skivvies.

To those who are agree that this vote is a good thing because of the fear that gas might cost 3,4,5 bucks a gallon:
Y'all don't appear to be any different than the politicians that accept bribes under the guise of "campaign contributions" and vote the way that they're told. Both are instances of rationalization that involve compromising ideals for money. Of course it is a matter of degree. It is up to each individual to draw his own line that he chooses not to cross.

I'm wearing my Nomex skivvies.

Good post BuKu
Those of us that are against this are accused of having the "chicken little" mentality That's laughable because that same mentality is what carried the day in the senate. We see the spectre of higher gas prices and are willing to do anything to the enviroment under the false hope that it will make it easier for us to drive our gas guzzlers without feeling guilty.
It's all about big money and today big money won

[Lepper]

[/quote]

And Eastern Oregon is a vast wasteland good only for cattle; ...etc...

[/quote]

Hey.. i've seen the experimental oil wells in eastern oregon......... there's a reason the government owns ALL the mineral rights in some places over there....

[mandinga]

bottom line is that some people are going to get VERY rich from this decision.


Will it save consumers money...i doubt that. It would be nice if it makes us less dependant on the middle east...

[corkyking]

Who needs oil, everyone needs a nuclear reactor in their
backyard. Best use of concrete ever invented

I thought that dams were the best (facetious)use of concrete.

It might be smart to promote things like nuclear and other forms of energy to take the pressure off.

Since Bush and his buds will get even richer as our misery increases it would be very smart of those of us whose jobs are nonexistant or shaky to start contacting prospective North Slope employers. The last time they drilled there many folks did well.

The Canadians have huge oil reserves in their tar sands and yet they are paying $3.20/gal. http://www.garnetknight.com/gas/locations.php