Just the way it is

03-10-2005, 01:15 PM

I feel like I've probably gotten the reputation of being and opinionated, tree hugging curmudgeon here on ifish. Well it's probably true, except I'm not ill tempered as defined by Websters. So I guess I would take that title with a certain amount of pride.
It's never been my intention to offend anyone with my beliefs. Make uncomfortable yes, offend never

Recently I reported some illegal activity that was going on on the Wilson river. It may or may not have involved someone's friend I really don't know and in the process it has cost me some friends who thought I didn't handle it very well.Maybe I did or maybe I didn't but rest assured I acted in what I thought was the best interest of the wild steelhead and the resource in general that was being harmed. Although I didn't see the illegal stuff going on I did see plenty of evidence of it the next day and took the time to cleanup the yards and yards of yellow braided line that was being used by whoever it was doing this. I also heard from witnesses who did see this stuff going on and it's now resulted in the closing of that privately owned area of the Wilson. To protect the wild fish that are in the river right now I think this is probably a good thing for the time being. The particular area in question is even worse in the fall.
Here on ifish there are hundreds and maybe thousands of you who are more skilled at fishing than I am. I can live with that because I fish as hard as I want to and the enjoyment of just catching a fish is only part of it for me. I've made some great and lifelong friends here and probably a few enemies too

That's a price I'll pay I guess because I will not compromise what I believe.
Each of us need to conduct ourselves in the way the best serves what we believe and of course what is legal. If you are fishing in an area where it's okay to kill a wild steelhead then if you feel that's okay well there really isn't much I can say about it except to say it would have been cool if that fish were allowed to spawn.
Same goes with taking a wild fish out of the water for a picture. You feel okay with it and know how to properly handle that fish in order to assure it's survival then again do what you think is best. Don't expect people to shower you with praise if it goes against what they believe though. I'll for the most part keep my opinion to myself and not say anything.
So to end this ramble I'll just say this much. I believe in the long run well being of our resource. For me that encompasses a lot of things that some of you might disagree with and that's cool too. You are more than welcome to disagree as long as it's civil and polite.
My gear fishing days are nearly over because I derive so much more pleasure from fly fishing. Occasionally you'll see me out there fishing a jig or whatever but you'll never see me fishing shoulder to shoulder in a hole because that is not fun. Please come over and say "Stew I agree with what you said" or "Stew you are so full of it your eyes are brown" as long as you are polite then we have common ground.
Cheers

Troutinator · 03-10-2005, 01:23 PM

I don't agree with everything you believe but I sure would buy you a beverage of your choice and be glad to discuss it like gentlemen... and that characteristic would go a long ways towards fixing the animosity amongst ourdoorsmen that seems all to prevalent these days.

Cheers!

Bait O' Eggs · 03-10-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

I've probably gotten the reputation of being and opinionated, tree hugging crumudgeon here on ifish

yup

Quote:

Here on ifish there are hundreds and maybe thousands of you who are more skilled at fishing than I am

yup

Quote:

"Stew you are so full of it your eyes are brown"

yup

Just yanking your chain Shane,

your Ok for a guy who has an opinion that is usually wrong, except for the quotes above

GoFish · 03-10-2005, 01:37 PM

I'll tell ya just the way it is.
You don't have anything to apologize for.
Keep doing your thing.

luguando · 03-10-2005, 02:08 PM

Stick to your guns - you'll have more respect of yourself as well as get it from others.

03-10-2005, 02:20 PM

I didn't see anything wrong with your post.

Fishfeet · 03-10-2005, 02:24 PM

You done good!

So don`t let it worry you. But you really otta stop huggin` those trees. The pitch in yer beard might catch on fire.

Ff

CATCH AND EAT · 03-10-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

I didn't see anything wrong with your post.

One more "Ditto head" here.

"now go do the right thing".

Sorry Shane but you know I just can't resist.

We all fish and fight for what we believe in. You are entitled to yours and the rest of us could be wrong.

BCF · 03-10-2005, 03:45 PM

Forget the trees, I'm huggin'you Stew.

BCF

Catching Nemo · 03-10-2005, 04:02 PM

I guess I missed the part on what you did wrong........ and why you would need to explain yourself. I just don't see it in what you described.

The Stallion · 03-10-2005, 04:42 PM

If you feel you got the hole closed it's the abusers not you. There is a simple mind factor when the long term is not realized. There is respect due when something is done about a problem and not just Bi#@&ing. Ecology is not necessairily tree hugging. If people had stood up 60,80 years ago there wouldn't be these problems. Hippie signing out.

BM-FISHER · 03-10-2005, 04:55 PM

stew i agree with what you siad and how you siad it.Good job

freespool · 03-10-2005, 06:39 PM

Stew, as near as I can figure, you are one in a thousand sport anglers that gives enough of a rip to get involved. Please do not change, we need more people with backbone, like yourself. We may not agree on every fish issue, but I know your heart is in the right place.

salmon hugger

rebell · 03-10-2005, 06:59 PM

I respect your desire to make things the way you feel they should be.

We don't usually agree on most issue's stew, but between 2 opnions, sometimes a common ground can be found that benefits both sides of any issue.

Hang in there stew, your allright in my book!

mcdaib · 03-10-2005, 07:47 PM

If there are snaggers out there, snagging either natives or hatchery fish it's the right thing to get rid of the slimeballs :depressed:
Every river has snag holes. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out where they are. If the OSP or WSP or any SP does not have funds or time to take take care of those that abuse our natural resources than it's a mighty fine thing that those of us who care about them, do

Stew, you go man! Keep up the good fight. If they close down some of the snage holes to stop the snagger, so be it.
There's always more water to fish

KChookem · 03-10-2005, 08:36 PM

Regular readers of Ifish learn people not only by what they say, but how they say it.

Regular readers also learn from the real, or the perceived, mistakes of others, and we then try not to make the same mistakes.

03-10-2005, 08:51 PM

To my way of thinking there is no gray area when it comes to intentional snagging. If you are trying to do it then you are in the wrong and there is no "politcally correct" way to say it. Don't do it around me or I'll will turn you in...guaranteed

I know a lot of others who will also. I've never intentionally snagged or flossed a fish. Not even in my younger days when there were a lot more fish in the rivers than there are this year.
I haven't a clue who was snagging last Saturday but the fact is, it was going and needs to be brought to everyone who cares about the Wilson river and the resource as a wholes attention!
Excuse my bluntness in all of this.
The gray areas of taking fish out of the water for photos is another argument on another thread.
Good luck and good fishing everyone

Once again you folks have proven what a great place ifish is and what outstanding people come here

Beefcake · 03-10-2005, 09:22 PM

Stew- You and I have butted heads on this board over political issues, but I still respect you and consider you a friend. Don't stop calling a snagger a snagger. There is no question that your intentions are good, even if someone got upset because your description of the culprit was vague (heck, I've worn a black cowboy hat fishing before, but I don't snag fish).

Chrome Bumper · 03-10-2005, 10:08 PM

Intentionally snagging?! You did right, shutem down.

blackdog · 03-11-2005, 06:10 AM

I don't have any problem with calling someone out and calling the police or the TIP line when you witness illegal actions taking place. Actually, I applaud that. There seems to be way to much tolerance - people getting mad but doing nothing about it.

On the other hand, I can see where some would take issue when someone starts ranting about second hand information. First off, if you weren't there to witness it, you have no way of knowing if the snagging was intentional. Personally, I have spoken with someone, who I would put up against anyone out there in terms of fishing ethics and morality, that has been fishing the hole in question in the last few weeks. This individual has also snagged a few fish there just due to the sheer numbers of fish that are stacked in there. Does that make him a 'snagger'? Heck no! But from the sounds of it, someone just hearing about it means there'll liable to get called out for it and labeled a criminal.

My point? Learn the TIP hotline number and use it when you see illegal activity (and if you neglect to use it, don't whine about what was going on as your inactions are an acceptance of what was happening). If you hear things second hand, use some common sense and withhold judgement until you have the facts.

03-11-2005, 09:32 AM

You are exactly right and that's why I never mentioned any names because I did not have any. The fact is that illegal snagging was going on and those that over reacted to my original post even agree about that.

Quote:

Learn the TIP hotline number and use it when you see illegal activity (and if you neglect to use it, don't whine about what was going on as your inactions are an acceptance of what was happening

Someone in a black cowboy hat is about as vague a description as you can get wouldn't you say? Only thing I feel I did wrong was mentioning someone elses ifish moniker in the original post. Would I do it again without the mention of another ifisher's moniker? In a heartbeat! Someone wrongly over react's because they think I singled out their friend? tough!!! Sorry for the bluntness here but someone is not getting the point and that is the fact, again, that I did not single out anyone's friend.
I told the OSP about what I heard from several witnesses and that they should watch the area, nothing more. I posted a heads up here on ifish so people were aware what was going on on the Wilson.
So I guess the bottom line here is if I hear of snagging and then see evidence of it along with hearing about it from those who actually saw what was going on wouldn't it be the responsible thing to do in telling the SP that they might want to take a look at that area?
I judged no one and did not accuse anyone personally. If someone mistakenly thinks their friend was accused by me then that's their problem.
Yeah there were alot of fish in that area and if someone unintentionally snags a fish and then let's it go of course they are not a snagger

So what's your point?

blackdog · 03-11-2005, 10:20 AM

My point is you're going on and on about 'intentional snagging' and trying to portray people as criminals when you have no idea if that was the case or not. You didn't witness anything. Yet you've somehow gained the insight to know exactly what went on.

Do I appreciate people taking efforts to stop illegal activities? Yeah, sure. But I don't appreciate people trying to do it through a public forum when they don't have all the facts. But then again, it sure would make it easier to make judgment calls if one was omniscent like you seem

Course, I wouldn't want that if it came with being a 'tree hugging liberal' too!

03-11-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

You didn't witness anything. Yet you've somehow gained the insight to know exactly what went on.

I witnessed the aftermath so that's good enough for me

and after all I'm also omnipresent

Of course you got all your info on this second hand too didn't you?

Must have been my 3 year old grandson doing it because he has a black cowboy hat

mcdaib · 03-11-2005, 06:11 PM

By Golly I'm starting to like this post!

Being fairly new to ifish, but not new to fishing in Oregon I think we are into a good discussion here

I was born and bred in Oregon (and am now 60 years old). Came from a ranching and logging family in the southern part of the state, yada, yada. Saw pictures of the great great granparents standing beside piles of salmon on the Umpqua and Rogue Rivers.

Spent 45 years of my life logging and ranching. As a youngster I thought we lived in an endless array of resources in this, the MOST BEAUTIFUL PLACE ON EARTH :smile: Truth is that even when I was a logger, I had to worry more about putting food on our table and the guys that worked for me than I did about the fish. I did my share of questionable activity when I was in highschool (like laying out illegal traplines,etc.), we all did. There was a time when people actually depended on food we could get from the streams or woods around us. But, we have to get past all that cr*p at some point, and sooner would be better than later. I don't know of many folks nowadays that live off the wild creatures they are able to take off the land.

There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for ignoring the obvious in 2005, and the obvious is that we live in another world than we did here in the Northwest 100 years ago. Not to mention just 30 years ago.

If people are snagging fish or poaching elk or deer than the book should be thrown at 'em. There should be even bigger fines than we now have. I want to see my grandchildren have an opportunity to hunt and fish in this great state (and maybe even think they can have the opportunity to get something).

'Nuff said.

oregonoutdoors · 03-11-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

I witnessed the aftermath so that's good enough for me

What exactly is the aftermath? yards of yellow line?
I say don't call unless you actually see something. I have been harassed by OSP once after someone (a grumpy old man)thought they saw something (I foul hooked a fish and released it, but did legally keep 2 others on a slow day). I didn't really mind though as this guy did see me playing a foul hooked fish. He was trying to do the right thing, but was just a little fast to judge.
But making the call based purly on speculation? I don't know the area, but did your call get this area closed? If so then that is wrong in my opinion. If you choose not fish this time of year then so be it, but taking away others oppertunity based on the speculation of one persons illegal activity is wrong.

03-11-2005, 06:53 PM

The area was not closed after all. It was someone else who took it upon themselves to try to get the area closed, not me although it probably wouldn't have been a bad idea to at least temporarily close and yadda yadda yadda....just read all I've said before making assumptions because I'm tired of repeating it here.BTW after fishing over 30 years up here I can tell when people have used the area for snagging.
I'm glad I did what I did as far as posting here and would and will do it again. I've gotten 10-1 support for what I did therefore you and the few others are in the minority.
So you armchair QB's will just have to deal with it.
Signed,
Tree Hugging Grumpy Old Man

Travis Moncrief Fins Feathers Furs · 03-11-2005, 07:39 PM

Say whatever makes you feel good Stew, those that saw your origianl post know you singled out a guy that many of us know and accused him of snagging and littering. Now where did you mention that you did not see him do it. You started a witch hunt on heresay and that is what most of us were upset with.

Now you say that a guy in a black cowboy hat is pretty vague, and may seem vague to many readers, but many of us new exactly who you were talking about. There is only one guy who wears a hat like that and fishes all the time. And he is great fishermen and as Lund put it realeases more fish and than most ifishers even catch.

You say you would do it all the same. I hope you would rethink that. If you saw it by all means turn them in shout it to the moon, I would encourage you to do so. But in this case you should have announced what was going on that would have been good enough. To describe someone on heresay was wrong and was incriminating and innocent person. That is what we were upset with and not just because he was a friend, but because he didn't do it. If a friend of mine was snagging, I would be the first to turn him in.

Heresay is a dangerous thing, I have a customer and friend thats son was being called and Illegal guide because he fishes alot of buddies, he then was thought to be keeping a snagged fish. Both were completely false but the next thing you know he is illegal guiding and snagging. Which neither were further from the truth. It was resolved pretty quickly but could you imagine if it had been broadcast acrossed the internet.

Just be careful.

03-11-2005, 08:01 PM

Now isn't that amazing

This cowboy hat wearing guy has suddenly become someone I intentionally fingered with a detailed description

Also I didn't say anything about this person littering either except to say it was a mess on Sunday when it wasn't on just two days earlier. I've never seen this person and wouldn't know him if he knocked on my door. To relay information from a reliable eyewitnesswho witnessed someone, whoever he is, committing a crime and posting it on ifish is not wrong. So basically you guys are calling the person who saw this guy a liar?
If you say it wasn't this friend of yours then fine. I'm pretty sure he is not the only person on the north coast who wears a cowboy hat. Tell me then why did one of you guys seem so fired up about getting that areas closed if nothing illegal was going on? I went down there today and there were no new "stay out" signs and about six guys were fishing there

What you guys have accomplished for your friend is bring even more attention to him.

timinthegorge · 03-12-2005, 04:29 PM

mcdaib.... I couldn't agree more with your logic. Tim