Breeding your dog

Dogfish · 08-28-2001, 08:00 AM

I have a lab that just turned one last week, and I was wondering when I could expect her to go into heat so that I can get her bred. I have checked a few sites, but most of them are vague on this subject.

Thanks for your help. Andy

Predator Dawg · 08-28-2001, 08:15 AM

Hey Andy,

I have a lab (she's going on 11 now) that if memory serves me correctly, went into heat around 14 months. I believe my vet told me to wait for the second heat to breed her. I actually waited till she was 3 which had her throwing the pups at almost 3 1/2. That is considered late for their first litter. Not sure if it is nessessary to wait or if that was the thought at the time. What ever you do, spend the time (and cash) to get the hips and eyes certified. It made all the difference in the world when it was time to market the pups. The OFA hip cert takes a while because it has to be mailed in and graded by them. I also had a pretty thorough trace on the bloodlines for the folks that picked up pups from me. One last tidbit, (I know you didn't ask about any of this, sorry if it is redundent) expect a large litter so you are prepared. I had 4 friends lined up for puppies. My dog threw 11. Pretty cool to see a yellow throw 11 coal black puppies (there daddy was a black).

Most of all, have fun. It was alot of work daily but alot of fun to.

Steve

Dogfish · 08-28-2001, 12:58 PM

Thanks for the info,

My dog is not papered because she is 3/4 lab and 1/4 golden retriever. The Lab genes definitely one out, because you can't tell her from any other lab. I am looking to breed her with a yellow so that we can get, hopefully, a mix of puppies. Her litter had three yellows, two browns, and four blacks.

All pups look like labs with nice short coats. Both parents are excellent in the field, so I wasn't worried about the instinct that much. She got her first pheasants at 3 months!

I would most likely be giving away the pups and charge only for the shots that I had done to that point, so I am not too concerned about the issue of marketability.

Andy

jberry · 08-28-2001, 01:10 PM

You definetely want to wait until they are 2 years old. Vets cannot certify hips/elbows/eyes until the dog is 2 years old. There's way too much breeding going on with dogs that aren't certified. There's just too much of a possibility of future problems if a dog has a chance of displaysia.

I had trouble finding breeders for my Golden retriever because her certification wasn't at the highest level.

Make sure you're ready to spend up to 12 weeks within a small radius of your home. Having puppies is a ton of work. Not so bad for the first 3 weeks but a big relief when the last one is sold.

Perfect Drift · 08-28-2001, 08:15 PM

I just gotta throw in my two cents.
If she isn't papered and you plan to give the puppies away and it sounds like you won't have her hips done.
Why on earth are you planning to bred her?
I really don't understand why!
You won't be doing either bred any good, really. Think this is something you should give a second thought to and look closely at what your reasons are for breeding a unregistered ***** and then just give the puppies away. The risks to your female aren't minor. And it certainly won't do anything for either bred. Ethics is a very big part of breeding any animal. Please take an other look at your reasons.

Dogfish · 08-28-2001, 10:22 PM

I was kind of expecting a reply like this, but the primary reason that my friend, and now I, have bred or will breed our females is for hunting dogs. Period. Not some hoity toity, blue blood, aristocratic, overpriced, inbred dog. I don't need a piece of paper to make me feel good about my dog. Please don't take any offense, but that is how some people feel, including me.

I am looking at one litter, that's all. After that, she get spayed. My sister and her family just put down their lab/golden cross yesterday after 16 years of friendship, and I have 7 other folks lined up for free dogs, so I have taken care of the unwanted puppy syndrome as it applies to my dog.

Research also shows that dogs of mixed lineage have fewer problems with displasia and other diseases specific to certain breeds, and are overall much healthier dogs.

As to my morals or ethics, I can live with the fact that when my dog throws her litter I alone get to choose the RESPONSIBLE owners of these pups. I am an college educated person, who is a professional in the finance industry. I am not trying to subvert any breed or hurt anyone's feeling. I just feel that the prices charged by breeders are not necessary for the average hunter to pay. I hate the puppy mill situations that 'some' of these elite breeders are involved in, and I would also like to have my kids experience puppies once in their lives. These are my reasons, and I can certainly live with them.

I wish you the best in your future endeavors. Andy

Hoosier Daddy · 08-29-2001, 07:21 AM

As long as you are breeding her for the right reasons, go for it. Sounds like you have more than enough homes for them, which is good since half of them may cancel before then. I don't care about the "breed purity" thing, though I wouldn't buy a mutt dog from someone at this point, but I have before. If I did, Golden/Lab would probably be the most likely. I think the other guy was coming from the point that you were breeding and expecting to get rid of the puppies instead of having homes for them already. Do make sure you are willing to put her through it and that you are willing to do the work, it takes a lot more than you might think. And I would wait for her to turn two or have her second heat, whichever comes later, that's just me. Some guys just wait for the first heat, but they are usually puppy farmers too.

(Goldens rock!)

Dogfish · 08-29-2001, 08:05 AM

I can understand that. Thanks for the info and advice. Andy

Predator Dawg · 08-29-2001, 09:02 AM

Hey Andy,

I like where you're coming from on this. I to was wondering a bit but not now. I firmly believe in responsible cross breeding as a way to strengthen the lineage. What you state is a proven fact about the inbreeding that goes on within just the lab line or golden line and that that is, in fact, the driving factor behind the increase in dislasia.
Once my dog became a mommy, she has been unbelievable around babies and toddlers. The crap she puts up with from my 2 year old shouldn't be tolerated by any dog, yet she remains very gentle with him. Your kids will be very lucky to experience this.

Steve

Dogfish · 08-29-2001, 12:15 PM

Good point. Will do.

Perfect Drift · 08-29-2001, 02:56 PM

I agree fully, just to know that she is sound even if breeding wasn't an option.
Here is a very good Vet. Many breeder, trainers and hunt test folks go to him because he doesn't put them under. This has many risks as I'm sure you understand. He's good! I have had them X-rayed both ways now, cheaper, less risk to the dog and very very good results. I was floored it took him 2 minutes, if that. No all day or over night stays. Many have recommended him. He charges about $70. Others are in the $150 range.
It's a bit of a drive, Salem. Here's his info- Aumsville Animal Clinic- Dr. Jay Stewart - 295 Main St. Aumsville Or. 503-749-1855 check him out!

jberry · 08-29-2001, 03:23 PM

Definetely use a vet that doesn't use anestetic. I didn't learn this until after I received a $200 vet bill and it's never healthy for the dog.

Dogfish · 08-29-2001, 03:35 PM

I have a client who is a vet. She specializes in breeding flatcoats. I can always trade a discount for a discount, but thanks for the good advice. I will take it to heart. Andy

Gooseman · 08-29-2001, 08:08 PM

I'm glad to see that you are at least checking the hips on the parents. I would also suggest that you wait until the dog is at least 2 years of age. If you talk to your vet, I think he will agree. A dog does not typically finish their skeletal & muscular growth until they are 18-24 months old. Some, longer than others. The dog may not grow in height, but the bone density & muscle structure sure do change between 12 and 24 months of age. You may also cut the females active years shorter by early breedings. The added weight and stress of a litter at an early age sure do have an impact on them later in life.

Besides, let her be a kid for a while.

Just my $00.02 worth.

Dogfish · 08-29-2001, 11:18 PM

Hi Saltine.

That is exactly why I am doing what I am doing. If someone wants to run a field trial dog, or breed dogs as a hobby, I have no problems with that. I don't need to do those things as I have enough with fishing, hunting, and woodworking. I just want to get some very hardy hunting dogs, and have my kids experience the process.

I know puppies are LOTS of work, but I remodeled my own house, completely re-landscaped my .25 acre yard, and built an armoire from scratch this year, so I live for projects that take time and effort.

Jenna, my dog, is a lean but VERY powerful pup. Good head, nose, coat, and tail. You should see her run on the beach out at the ocean. She has the gait of a horse, and as she runs past you at full speed, you feel her feet hit the ground like a horse was running by. She knows one speed right now, FAST!

She loves our two boys, but being a puppy she doesn't know her own strength. We are working on that, but she already has completed obedience training, and I have been working her with a kong on a rope since she was 10 weeks old, so the retriever instinct has been nurtured from the beginning. She was the first pup in the litter to track a grouse wing, find it, and retrieve, at 5 weeks.

Last year she got her first pheasant at three months, actually she put up two roosters at the same time. Retrieval was interesting, but we got it done as a team! She retrieved about 40 ducks, one goose, and so far this year she has picked up about 60 feral pigeons from the barns that I clear.

On the subject of using muts for hunting dogs, one of my friends has a love hound, Gypsy, that is your all around hunting dog. She trees coons at night and gets right in there to fight them when they come down, or you can use her as a retriever for any game bird. The funny thing about her is that she looks kind of like the dog in Mad Max. I doubt if she is taller that 12", but don't tell her that. This dog is fearless, loves the water, and loves chasing cripples even more. It is mostly the training that makes a dog, but genetics can help a lot.

Andy

jberry · 08-29-2001, 11:55 PM

I would still have both dogs' hips checked. It's only fair to the pups and the future owners.

Osprey · 08-31-2001, 12:03 PM

For the reasons you specified Dogfish,I say breed her.
I own a papered chocolate Lab she 7 years and a stout 88lbs she's a birden fool.

But as a kid we had Lad /Weimaroner (sp)
he was the best Dog,
sometimes a crossbreed is a better dog,as long as you have homes...breed her,

Don't let Redneck know you're looking to breed you're Beeatch......she might just show up with some flowers....Os [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Capin' Dan · 09-17-2001, 12:57 AM

Andy, I have to agree with KLAUS (SP) on this one. Why would you cross bred because you truely aren't doing the breeds any favors. If you do at least wait until they are two for the bitches sake and have there eyes and hips checked.
Don't go bashing pure breeds the majority of these owners do whats right for the breeds. I am a Lab breeder and hunt and show my dogs so I have to take a stand as far as labs are concerned. Just go to the pound and see how many unwanted labs and labs crosses are in there. Just be a responsible breeder and do whats right for these breeds. If you really do your homework you can come up with an exceptional litter of pups that are pure to ones breed. If you need any assistance in this endever send me a mail I would be more than happy to help out. I may even be able to help out with some of your fried whom are looking for hunting dogs as well.

Dan!