Wakes!!!

[RiverRogue]

OK My rant for the day....And I know this isn't anything new, BUT... Is it me? Am I imagining this to be more than it is??? Yesterday, anchored just below the Toyota dock near St Johns, a large boat travelling at near full speed, was throwing a wake that was obviously a danger to small boats. I do not know if he was just oblivious or what the deal, but these big boat operators so many times just dont care. To this guys credit, when I said something on Channel 16, telling him to slow down, he immediately cut his throttles. I do not know if he heard me, or if it was coincidence. If he sees this, I want to thank him, but please be more courteous in the future.

[Ray]

Yesterday I was trolling down stream from Frenchmens Bar in about 20' of water and about 75' across from another boat when a girl in a nice fiberglass comes chuggin between us. It looked like Hawaii 5-0 coming at my boat. She smiled and waved as she went by I was going to wave back but I think some of my fingers where missing so I didnt. She had the hole river but she just went right between everybody on her way up river just my rant sorry Ray.

[fortywinks]

That's pretty much business as usual in the Portland Harbor, Dale! It really bugs my wife, but I have learned to just roll with it. Sometimes though it can get pretty nasty. The ones that really get to me are the ones that "stroll" right between boats that are either hog-lined or just sorta spread out off the channel, when they have all sorts of room if they would just be courteous and take a different line.

It's the same thing on the upper willy, with all the canoes and kayaks that we are seeing more and more of. I always idle down for them, especially in close quarters, but many fellow fisherman don't. No it's not always convenient, but it is courteous.

[legal_layover]

Now, as a big boat owner, let me rant. I know there were just a few Ifisher's in the derby yesterday. So, I'm ancohored just below the rail road bridge on the mighty columbia and all the "little boats" come blasting down river, in the fog, at 30 mph. Nothing but wakes, nobody slowed down or bothered to steer clear of my boat.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. IT'S NOT THE SIZE OF THE BOAT BUT THE SIZE OF THE BOAT OPERATORS BRAIN THAT MAKES THE DIFFERANCE." And don't be telling me you all make a smaller wake on plane than under 5 mph.
My answer, just roll with the waves and keep on fishing.

[wheatie]

For me and my 14' Kalamath anchored at Chinook landing, I get a bit nervous with the big yahts that throw the big, sharp wakes up. I also got to ride out the Sternwheeler on Sat. Sometimes I wonder if they are thinking..."Lets watch this guy bob up and down". But, it is my choice to go out there and yes my PFD is on!!!

[Riverliver]

If were talking about WAKES Now May I say my two cents...

I've seen BIG boats, Little Boats, Medium boats, and all kinds of personal water craft… They all make wakes… some in the no wake zone other not… I’m starting to think it’s not so much about education Surely everyone can read there in a no wake zone (These is a floating can infront of my house) it all boils down to stupidity..

Sicker then a dog in bed today.. and I’m awaken by a Jet Ski cutting donuts and bat turns RIGHT in front of my house? I look a little closer getting dressed and it’s a young man (maybe 18) I head down stairs with my air horn in hand to educate the young man politely. Only to notice his father is with him in another Jet Ski… Doing the very same thing… I tooted my horn ever so softly (as not to cause my pounding brain to implode) Waving them over to my house… The father comes flying up 100 mph thro it in reverse and ask what the #$@#$ Do I want! I calmly ask him not to hot dog in front of the houses as it’s a no wake zone :whazzup: (As my house and every other house on the moorage is bouncing around like a pop can in the ocean during a hurricane) The father now standing up on his ski yelling at the top of his lung profanities “ If I don’t like waves you shouldn’t live on a floating home” I looked at his son and say “ I hope you have enough sense not to listen to you father an realize you can get a fine for doing what your doing”. Then told his father to go down river if he wants to act like an @$%&. Turned around went in side an puked


Its all about respect or the lack of..

Sorry that was maybe more then my two cents… I’ve replaced seven $450 windows in the last 2 ½ years AND have one that needs replacing now ….. Maybe it is time for me too move

Tight lines,
Riverliver

[RiverRogue]

I just wanted to remind people about their wakes. And L L is correct in so far as sometimes it isnt the size of the boat, but the brain of the operator. But, I will disagree when you say that that 40' yacht and my boat make the same wake. That simply just isnt the case. I have intentionally did a 180 degree turn , back into my own wake to see what my boat actually is generating. I would be happy to demonstrate if you like. The smaller, lighter, near flat or flat bottom boats just do not make the same wake that the heavy yachts with their deep V hulls do....especially when up on step. As for the boats passing yours by in the fog, I am sure there were some that took chances they might ordinarily have not taken due to the competition. Doesnt make it necessarily right. I am glad there weren't any injuries or accidents (that I know of). I for one was extremely pleased I had taken my GPS along. There still remains the issue of speed in the fog. It was deffinately a "white knuckle" ride if going very fast. Not only were other boats obscure, but wakes from the other boats were difficult to see as well. Fourtywinks states that is pretty much business as usual in Portland harbor. The law is pretty clear...you are responsible for your boats wake. One of the wakes yesterday, tipped an elderly man out of his seat, nearly hitting his head. It took him a few minutes to get stable again. Had he been injured, I would have persued that boat. OH...And it was one of the smaller derby boats that caused the wake, not the one I mentioned in my original post.

[Salmonator]

Was this in a no wake zone? I'm kinda thinking it isn't. I don't know the circumstances (was he dangerously close to you ect...) but it seems like a big boat is going to throw big wakes in a big river . At what point does is become the boat owners reponsibility to be in a big enough boat to safely play on the same body of water with the yachts, tugs, cargo ships....

[Catch 22]

Common sense says don't row your canoe down through the ships yes I agree.

However, in Oregon you are legally and financially responsible for your wake. Tip over a boat and someone gets hurt you are responsible. It's pretty simple, YIELD to the smaller vessel. It's the law and it's the right thing to do.

It's like riding a bike on a 2 lane highway. I think it's dangerous and wish people wouldn't do it. Not because they make me slow down, but because I don't want them to get hit by some idiot that won't slow down. Some people don't actually realize that bicycles have the right of way and motorists have to YIELD to them.

[1pump]

I was at work today (on the river just below the SJ bridge) doing some work on the boathouse when I heard the whoosh of a wake coming toward me. I was on the leeward side and couldn't see it, so I decided to ignore it and keep driving screws into the dock boards. Bad move. The next thing I know the whole freakin' float jumps about a foot straight up while I'm driving a 4" screw straight down. I fell against the side of the house and barely managed to keep the drill motor from going into the river.
When my world stopped rocking I regained my balance and peeked around the corner of the house and looked upriver. Sure enough, it was about a 36' express-type motor yacht, a.k.a. Cocktail Barge, doing about 20 knots or so. He wasn't doing anything wrong, it was just an unpleasant reminder that it's almost That Time of Year Again. I enjoyed a nice quiet winter on my little chunk of the lower Willy, and now comes 6 months of chaos, strife, discontent, havoc and general disorder. And thanks to the weather, it's early this year.
There's been gator fishermen galore anchored out there all day for months, and I've never heard a peep out of 'em. Tugs, barges, ships, tour boats, PWCs, fishing boats of all kinds, all no problem. But along comes one high-speed displacement hulled boat, and CRASH! BANG! CREEEEAAAAAK!! If there's a barge tied up to our dock, the wake will shove it against the dolphins and the whole thing sways like it's had too many Long Islands. Very annoying when I'm in the dock office doing a crossword puzzle or trying to sleep.

[USCGBoating]

""However, in Oregon you are legally and financially responsible for your wake. Tip over a boat and someone gets hurt you are responsible. It's pretty simple, YIELD to the smaller vessel. It's the law and it's the right thing to do.""

It isn't just Oregon. You are responsible for the wake your boat makes anywhere. There are numerous charges that could be filed against someone who damages property or injures someone. In the extreme side, someone falls, hits their head and dies....... You may think it is a reach but these things can and do happened.

If you have damage to your vessel or someone is injured call the Coast Guard or Marine Patrol. If you are in an area where this is not possible you can file a complaint with the Marine Board at this web link. http://www.boatoregon.com/JavaChores/TipPage.htm

Get the name and numbers off the boat and a discription. Also any whitnesses if you can. Write down a discription of the person driving the boat to assist officers in following up on the complaint.

[Nail Knot]

Riverliver, I hope you are feeling better. I have always enjoyed your posts. You are not supposed to have the flu now when it's warm and sunny. You are supposed to have the flu during the winter when its cold and rainy. Oh, I guess we skipped that part of the year.

I must confess that I harbor extreme dislike for jet skis. I suffer from numerous fantasies about what I would like to do them. I fished in Oregon City in my driftboat yesterday. There were some very inconsiderate boaters there yesterday. I particularly enjoyed the larger boats that went by at 1/4 to 1/3 throttle making the largest possible wake. Then there were the sleds that found it necessary to go up the river between where I was anchored and the bank on my left, while there was 90% of the river on my right. There is also a new, very large, very expensive public dock in front of the motel just above Clackamett Park. There are signs on that dock that say "5 miles per hour within 200 feet". I watched boat after boat break that law. When the hog lines really get established later this month, there will be no way to go through there without going through the 200 foot zone. It will be interesting to see if there is any enforcement. I did see a sheriff's boat there about a week ago giving some tickets. Maybe that was what he was doing.

I would like to thank the 6 or so boats that idled past where I was to diminish their wake. Their wakes were inconsequential compared to the sleds that went by me at high speed.

I know of three fish that were caught in the area yesterday. One in the garbage hole, one below the mouth of the Clackamas and a third by the 205 bridge. So far, I am one (native) for three after fishing there 6 times. :smile:

[garyk]

Just amplifying what USCG said above.

That link: http://www.boatoregon.com/JavaChores/TipPage.htm

is definitely one to bookmark. I used it last year to report a jet ski that was buzzing us while on-anchor. I didn't yell at the moron, just took his picture several times as he came by, nicely displaying his registration numbers. Then I emailed the pics along with the complaint. Not only did the OSMB contact the perp, but they cited him too. THEN they reported back to me what they did, OUTSTANDING job OSMB

So don't yell at the morons. Raising your blood pressure likely won't accomplish anything other than shortening your life.

Get their boat numbers, a pic if possible, and file those complaints with the official enforcement angency Oregon State Marine Board. In life-threatening situations, call the local sheriff, they'll respond ASAP.

[Skipper Cole]

I echoe your concern RiverRogue, as the operator of a fourteen foot grumman with shallow gunnels I have had those wakes come over my transom once or twice, sometimes I think they dont see us, sometimes it seems close to purposeful, like its some kind of sport or entertainment. I guess bigger rules the seas in the willy.

[boater]

It isn't just Oregon. You are responsible for the wake your boat makes anywhere.

i live in seattle and fish puget sound alot and we have freightors, ferry boats, tug boats, fire boats and even coast guard boats that all throw giant wakes, what if one of these boats causes your boat to capsize, are they responsable ?

[Nalu]

i live in seattle and fish puget sound alot and we have freightors, ferry boats, tug boats, fire boats and even coast guard boats that all throw giant wakes, what if one of these boats causes your boat to capsize, are they responsable ?

I'm curious about this too. Maybe USCGBoating can help explain some more partuculars. I fully understand and hold by the responsability for your own wake, but....

If you are running boat that i a displacement hull, or even a BIG powerboat planing hull in a large river, and there is a guy with a jon boat that could tip WITHOUT a wake, what about that? By default, does all responsability go to a boat making ANY size wake regardless of the lack of seaworthyness or inexpereince of a small boat operator?

I've paddles canoes, kayaks, and run small boats knowing that a moderate wake could tip me over if I wasn't careful. Sure, I'd be ticked if a large boat powered close by throwing a BIG wake, but does the small craft operator bear no burden to choose an appropriate craft in an appropriate waterway?

[Uglygreen]

I was beached on the Columbia one year when the Rose Festival fleet was coming upriver, A navy destroyer threw about a 6 foot roller up on the shore of the Island I was on. Swamped my boat and I lost some gear - I guess the Pacific fleet owes me a cooler and some fishing gear. LOL.

Brad

[Cohodependent]

I do not own a boat but I have to ask about this. I have been told that a boat going full speed will throw less of a wake than if he powered down as he went by. Is this the truth? I was out on the river last weekend and was impressed by the number of boats trolling and anchored every where. I wonder how you are supposed to cruise the river with out throwing a wake?

[Nalu]

I've made the good intentioned mistake of keeping it up on plane to try and minimize my wake only to get the middle finger salute. Now I generally power down all the time and get the thank you wave and head tilt as I pass by in my big boat while making a bigger wake than if I had just kept going.

IMHO perception is much more prevelant than reality in a lot of cases.

In a typical run from Coon Island to St. Helens I generally have to power up and down 3 times, and none of this is a no-wake zone.

[Salmonator]

If you are running boat that i a displacement hull, or even a BIG powerboat planing hull in a large river, and there is a guy with a jon boat that could tip WITHOUT a wake, what about that? By default, does all responsability go to a boat making ANY size wake regardless of the lack of seaworthyness or inexpereince of a small boat operator?

Nalu, this was my point (ok, question). Seems like there could be a huge gray area here.

[Jennie@ifish]

It concerns me that not as many boaters out there read, or have access to the information on ifish that could help them... Like this thread.
I wish that more people would put on ifish decals, and encourage others to read threads like this. I get upset by wakes because it is uncomfortable for me physically. In fact, it can downright hurt!
I wonder if everyone knows that not everyone wants to be tossed about?
Jen

[Joe Schwab]

Keeping it on plane makes far less wake than powering up and down. What do some of you do when fishing Buoy 10? That is one giant wake all day long. I don't see the problem of boats keeping their speed up and wake down.

The problem I see is boats on plane cutting way too close to other boats fishing. Or worse yet running up to them and then cutting power causing a huge wake.

We might as well all just put a trolling motor on and forget the power. Before this is done everyone is going to be suing everyone for the slightest wake.

I had an experience last year coming into Fred's. I was at idle coming toward the dock. Some jerk on the dock yells "hey this is a no wake zone" . I looked back and could barely see a wake 3 inches high. I just chuckled and wanted to reply, "you call that a wake, I'll show you what a wake is." But I kept my tongue civil. It just gets a little ridiculous at times.

[judyfish99]

Ah, Capt. Hook!! Good man..from what I understand from the boaters class is the jet skiers have to abide by the same rules as the boats. Sorry, Riverliver...I hope you get well!

[judyfish99]

Oh yeah....Nothing beats the wake of the "Lewis and Clark" tour boat going full bore!!

[Catch 22]

I agree that the worst thing you can do is cut the throttle RIGHT BEFORE you reach the other vessel(s). You just end up PUSHING a huge wake into them. Keep it on plane if your in a sled that won't throw a serious wake if it's safe to do so and you have plenty of room. Or slow down a few seconds before you reach the vessel(s), so that the wakes that you PUSH from cutting throttle don't reach them. Then you can safely motor by them.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a boating safety expert, I just play one on the web.

[USCGBoating]

Yes they are but...There are exceptions to the rules when dealing with commercial shipping. To slow a freighter down to the point where there is no wake or little wake would create a significant hazard not only to the ship but to other ships in the area and possibly the environment if it were to ground. Large ships have to have speed on to steer and keep control. Even at 11 knots it takes a 650 foot ship approximately 3 tenths of a mile to do a 90 degree turn.

They are also confined within the traffic lanes and narrow channels. There are laws that apply to all vessels in and around the lanes. One piece of advice the Coast Guard has is to avoid the Traffic Lanes by as wide of margin as possible. This link has more information on the VTS lanes. http://www.uscg.mil/d13/units/vts/boaters.html

Knowing that the ferries have a specific route and a schedule these would also be areas which I would avoid or keep a safe distance. These are know hazards that should be, if possible, avoided and give yourself plenty of room. This still does not mean you can not file a complaint.

As far as the Coast Guard boats go, absolutely. My philosophy is that even if responding to a life threatening emergency you do not create a new emergency in the process but, if you see them coming with the blue light on, like any other emergency vehicle steer well clear. If you are waked out by a Coast Guard boat I would urge you to call the unit Commanding Officer and let him know. I am sure that the individual operating the boat will receive some very constructive feedback on their performance.

[boater]

thanks USCGBoating.

[USCGBoating]

""If you are running boat that is a displacement hull, or even a BIG powerboat planing hull in a large river, and there is a guy with a Jon boat that could tip WITHOUT a wake, what about that? By default, does all responsibility go to a boat making ANY size wake regardless of the lack of seaworthiness or inexperience of a small boat operator? ""

To answer this you are by law required to maintain a proper lookout. Observing the vessel traffic in your area and reacting in accordance with the Navigation Rules and the law all apply. It is part of the responsibility we all have while operating a boat. We are not only responsible for the safety of those on our boat but also the safety of those around us and we have an obligation to do what ever is necessary to avoid conflict. I know you are exaggerating when you say no wake at all but realize that common sense plays into every situation.

We as boaters also need to realize the capabilities of our boats and not place ourselves in situations where we could come in danger. Some boats are designed for a specific use such as lakes and small rivers. Saltwater fishing in a 12 foot aluminum skiff to me is stretching the capabilities of the boat. These are the risks we personally take and to answer your question, yes. The type and size of boat would be a factor but it would be one that would need to be closely looked at in an accident investigation.

Speed and wakes. Good Question. If you have enough room to go around a boat and not have the wake adversely affect the other boat, why not. Realize that no matter what, a boat; while physically moving through the water will throw a wake. Where the problem lies is what is a safe distance. It will depend on the size of wake that you throw. You know your boat and we all pretty much know how other boats will react when our wake hits them. When accidents happen is when people aren’t paying attention and that is normally when the operator is distracted.

[Joe Schwab]

USCG, One thing that seems to be getting lost in translation here is that wake damage is a civil problem and NOT a criminal violation. I discussed this today with a Multnomah Marine Deputy. I also spent twenty five years on the Big C enforcing Fish and Game and Marine Board laws.

There is no law that says you cannot make a wake unless you are in a no wake area. Yes, you can be held civilly liable but only if damage occurs. Simply inconveniencing an anchored fisherman is not cause for civil action. While I am not saying boaters should totally disregard others on the water, we all need to get a grip. Wakes are a part of boating. It's kind of like parking on I-5 and complaining about all the people driving 70 MPH past you.

I keep hearing people say the wake rocked their boat and they will start taking numbers and turn them in. For what?
No harm, no foul.

Please don't take this the wrong way and think I am defending stupid boaters. But wakes are wakes and stupid boaters are------ well!

[Riverliver]

I was going to post something here.. But thought not... As a wise mentor of mine said "Greg, Just let it go" :smile:

Maybe it is just a part of living on a golf course... you know sooner or later your going to have to replace a window because of a rouge ball. Might just be the same living on a floating home?
Greg

[KChookem]

I'm with USCGBoating on this...

you are by law required to maintain a proper lookout

.

This cuts both ways. If I or my boat can not safely handle the wake by vessels operating legally in the shipping channel, I should not be where I am. If I can not estimate what the wake of an approaching vessel will be, perhaps I need more experience. If I fail to see an approaching wake, I am not maintaining a proper lookout.

For example, if I choose to fish the jetties or ocean near the bar, it would be totally unreasonable for me to expect USCG 47's, Commercials and Charter boats to slow to a crawl because I choose to fish near an arterial "highway". FYI - some of these boats put out a very significant wake !!

[garyk]

from what I understand from the boaters class is the jet skiers have to abide by the same rules as the boats.

Actually they have additional rules to follow.

Here's the link: PW Rules

Here's the excerpt, the section I used to get the PW operator cited:

“PERSONAL WATER CRAFT”
observe Slow-no wake, maximum 5 mph speed limit:

within 200' of a swimmer, surfer, diving flag, bank or wading angler; dock, swim float, ramp, pier, marina, floating home, or boathouse;

within 100' of any anchored or non-motorized vessel;

within 200' of shoreline on all lakes, reservoirs, and bays, "safe" (see page ii) take-off excepted;
not operate in excess of 10 MPH when approaching within 100' of a motorized or sail vessel underway

[USCGBoating]

That applies to property damage. If there is injury or in the worst case death caused by someone it can be criminal. Washington has a statute, assault by water craft. Remember it will depend on the outcome. The Coast Guard also has a statute called Gross Neglegent Operation. In the worst case there can be crimminal charges brought against a operator on the Federal side. Again it depends on the outcome