Angling ethics...what do you think?

What is your opinion on these ethical situations? These scenarios are not against the law and so some are grey issues, some are not. Feel free to offer your opinions on these

[Bankbound]

Is it unethical to fish size 12 glo-bugs over spawning salmon for steelhead?? I checked yes for the last one just for this reason, any other circumstance NO!

MH

[rob allen]

By far the worst of the offences you mentiones Stew is fishing over actively spawning salmon /steelhead. it is always wrong PERIOD.. in fact it used to be illegal in Washington i don't know if it still is.. it should be everywhere and no angler should ever do it.. some ethical issues are black and white and this os one of them.. there is no room for wiggle on this one. it is black and white and there is no gray or not even any grey :smile:. simple it is wrong to fish for salmon and steelhead on beds... it is never ok. i am repeating myself over and over and over because it's that serious of an issue. no room for opinions on this one it's just flat out wrong.

I agree Rob but you would be surprised at how much it happens.

[Fishin Magician]

Is it unethical to fish size 12 glo-bugs over spawning salmon for steelhead?? I checked yes for the last one just for this reason, any other circumstance NO!

MH

you are talking about targeting trout then right......if not then I say no......

[Fishin Magician]

I agree Rob but you would be surprised at how much it happens.

Did you know Shane that one of the tailouts in one of your favorite spots ( P***S ) is a giant spawning redd....Thats why all those fish are rolling around back there....is it ethical to fish that like we do.......??? I know that in the poll you are talking about fish laying clearly visible in shallow water over redds, but I thought I might bring this question into the mix......Waddya think?????

I knew that John but that particular spot is nearly impossible to fish from where we stand. Steelhead also spawn in the tailout just past the deep hole.
Also I've encountered spawning redds near Mills Bridge.

[Bankbound]

Steelhead and large river cutts.

MH

[Fishin Magician]

very true....... what do you think about plugging for steelhead and pushing plugs clear into a tailout that you know might hold spawning fish........?

[crabbait]

All good things to think about, Stew. I hope everyone can approach the topic with an open mind and consider their response, and other's, with respect.

very true....... what do you think about plugging for steelhead and pushing plugs clear into a tailout that you know might hold spawning fish........?

If someone knows there are spawning fish there then they should maybe pass those spots up don't you think? This poll isn't about my beliefs but peoples opinions on ethical questions.

[Fishin Magician]

I feel the same way, I'm just curious what you thought....We need to schedule a winter steelhead trip too shane, you and Mark!!!!!.....give me a ring 515-1036...

JB

I see that ten people have responded that they think fishing over spawning fish is ethical :whazzup: I wish a few of them would tell us why they think that way

[STGRule]

I believe the idea of a poll is that you can answer without repercussion. While I agree that it doesn't seem ethical, they did answer your question. I'm guessing that they haven't responded because they don't want to argue the point. Let the poll itself speak.

[River Ranger]

Just curious how you feel about this Stew.If it is unethical to fish for hens for their eggs releasing all bucks you encounter,Causing stress to the bucks you don't keep.Is it unethical to fish a river at a time of year when natives are running strong only to catch and release them,causing unneeded stress?Just curious how you feel.

That said I don't target hens,just chrome.I will however catch and release on longer trips to the coast.I would hate to tag two fish by nine am in the morn,I am there to enjoy a good part of the day.
RR.

[lilnorthfork]

I see that ten people have responded that they think fishing over spawning fish is ethical :whazzup: I wish a few of them would tell us why they think that way

Well cousin, though I would not intentionally fish over spawning steelhead, salmon, or trout for that matter, I would have been lying if I hadn't answered yes. The fact is I have intentionally drifted flies through spawning kokes on the Metolius to pick up opportunistic trout. Figured I was doing the kokanee population a huge favor by getting the rainbows away from their eggs. :grin:

Just curious how you feel about this Stew.If it is unethical to fish for hens for their eggs releasing all bucks you encounter,Causing stress to the bucks you don't keep.Is it unethical to fish a river at a time of year when natives are running strong only to catch and release them,causing unneeded stress?Just curious how you feel.

I know what you are getting at with this question by directing it at me. I have made my beliefs public so River Ranger you can figure it out pretty easily.
This is an opinion poll and nothing else! No where did I cast aspersions on anyones ethics or beliefs

[RichH]

I see that ten people have responded that they think fishing over spawning fish is ethical I wish a few of them would tell us why they think that way

I think fishing FOR actively spawning fish is unethical but fishing around spawning fish can be highly effective for other species that prey upon their eggs. I answered this question negatively because I felt it was a little unclear.

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

you can avoid catching darker and spawning fish simply by staying out of the frog water.

a lot of my friends are always askin me why I fish such fast water. they do ok fishing the slower water and dont have to row as hard. yes they do do ok but they also catch fish with color on them at times.

sure there may be a chromer moving thru the slower water, but that slow water is were the tired old darkies lay and wait to spawn. Rarely have I caught a dark fish in water thats takes 6 or 8 ounces to get your kwikfish down in.

I try to stick with the faster flowing water that you would catch a moving fish in to avoid catching spawners and darkies. I learned this method from a buddy of mine and it has worked well for me.

there is no worse feeling then seeing a fish that your trying to unhook start dumping her eggs. I had that happen to me a couple time many years ago and it made me feel like crap. now days I try and fish where I know I am not going to see that happen again.

Quasi..

.

[Jennie@ifish]

Not only the fast water, but when fishing slower water, it seems that darker fish lay on the bottom.
To catch the "moving" chrome fish, fish shallow, especially with bobbers and eggs.

Jen

[River Ranger]

I never said that you were casting aspersions at anyone Stew.I just wanted to know if you thought hooking natives for the fight was ethical?Hooking and releasing bucks because they don't have eggs is really no different than catch and release fishing,other than less hens make it up river to spawn.

I think it's obvious you don't care for those who target hens so I would asume you are against the hooking of natives that are of such importance to the ecosystem.

To each their own,I guess.
RR.

[mandinga]

River Ranger,
How can it be unethical to hook native fish? If I could control the type of fish(hatchery or wild) with every cast people would be lining up at my new magical fishing school. Of course season can determine alot about the types, but in general it is impossible to intentionally hook a native or vice versa.

[crabbait]

cm - Your odds of hooking a native are dramatically increased depending on the month you are fishing. Many streams have a fairly early hatchery run, followed by the nates. I won't go into the where and when of it but the run timing is pretty well known.

C&R of native fish could be considered more ethical if techniques are used that minimize the chance that nates will be hooked deep. Diver and bait are often taken deep, causing serious injury to the fish and, possibly, to the run.

[CATCH AND EAT]

I have no issues with those that C&R bucks for hens. No different than releasing nates for hatchery in my opinion. I personally do not usually do this (except for chum at Hoodsport) but I have no ill will against those that do. It's legal and nothing wrong with it. If a person does not care for this kind of fishing then they would do well to avoid those that do. Matter of choice not ethics here as far as eggs are concerned.

Fishing on spawning beds. shame shame shame....

[Lured In]

My logic and corresponding 'answer' in the poll.....

Using diver and bait for 'wild fish' - ethical, where legal to retain wild fish.

Targeting hens for eggs - ethical within the bounds of common sense. (ex: I let go two bucks in order to retain two hens. This is essentially no different than releasing smallish fish in order to retain a larger one. This is also no different than targeting hatchery fish amongst wild fish. No matter how you slice it, you have to use your head (common sense). Fish will get played and released in lots of different situations for different reasons.)

Taking 'wild' fish out of the water for a photo - ethical. As long as you use common sense and consider it an exceptional specimen.

Fishing over spawning fish - ethical. Where legal and if you keep/eat what you catch.

I guess my point is that often times we apply the label of 'ethics' to things that are really common sense. We will always have people that abuse the system, but that is why we still have a mostly free country.

For all of the above issues we have either regulations in place or area closures in order to prevent these issues from arising on many rivers.

If no such regulation or closure exists, it is likely not an issue of ethics - it means you have to use common sense. (That is not to say that there aren't areas that still need additional regulations or closures)

I have my flame suit on , but we need to consider each river, run and situation on its own. Broad strokes regarding 'ethics' is likely to alienate those who are not only ethical, but good people who are doing the right thing in that river, during that run and in that situation.

No flame from me While I don't agree with your take on these scenarios this was, after all, just an opinion poll and nothing more

[River Ranger]

Thats cool Stew,no offense intended.
RR.

[C-lice]

Diver/bait for natives--I voted UNethical. I believe that when one knows that one is fishing in a way that increases the odds of deep hooking and death, one is disregarding the safety of the resource. For high concentrations of nates, I think that single barbless hooks without bait are the way to go.

Targeting hens--I voted ethical. I will ONLY keep hatchery steelhead. Whether I kill a buck or a hen won't make the slightest difference to the runs that matter-the wild fish. That said, I usually keep the first hatchery steelhead I catch each day if it's in good shape and then hold out for a hen for fish #2.

Taking natives out of the water for a photo--I voted ethical, but I know how to do it right. MINIMAL time (just a couple of seconds) out of the water, no fingers in the gill plates, wet hand, and just one or two pictures.

Fishing for spawning fish--I voted UNethical, but I'm lukewarm about it. I don't do fish redds, but I did when I was a kid and didn't know any better. I chose to quit doing it because 1.) the quality of the fish and their fight is lower, 2.) the odds of foul-hooking a fish rises to unacceptable (for me) levels, and 3.) people who target spawners usually do so because they lack the skill to catch fish legitimately and have to resort to either lining a fish that is too stubborn to move or going home skunked. I don't want to be lumped together with this sort of people.

In my opinion, once a salmon or steelhead enters freshwater, it's on its spawning run. I reject the notion that it is ethical to fish for a certain fish in a deep slot on Monday (because its eggs/milt hasn't ripened) but unethical to target that fish in a tailout on Wednesday (because it's on a redd).

[mandinga]

crabbait,
Thanks. It is a little different where I am from, we have a pretty solid mix when the fish come in...I am talking about central cali. Our winter runs start around right now and for about 4 months we have about a 60/40 chance of catching a hatchery fish. I know that the natives come in late up here, but there must be a pretty good mix most of the time. :whazzup:

[Catcherman]

:lurk:

[bait dunker]

i think the question should have read "is fishing FOR spawning fish unethical". i have pulled many nice summer steelhead from behind old spring chinook, as well as a few nice sea run cutthroat. i do believe however that targeting spawning fish is wrong!
where i get whipped up into a frenzy is when people say targeting hens is unethical. why is it ethical to accidentally catch and tag two hens but its unethical to intentionally target and tag two hens? sounds hypocritical to me.
ill admit freely to anyone, i am a hen hunter. to me the eggs are far more valuable than the fish. i take only what i know can be used by myself, family and friends. i use a lot of eggs, on some trips i have been known to use a gallon or more in a full day. im surely not going to buy eggs at 26.00 a quart! besides i feel my own cure is far better than anything commercially available most days, but then again i am shown up from time to time.
i really dont understand the reasoning behind the thought that targeting hens is unethical. is an egg in the water more valuable than sperm? if i remember right it takes one of each for fertilization to take place. how is releasing bucks for hens any different than releasing small fish for big fish, or bronzed fish for chromers?
i honestly believe it must boil down to ignorance or jealousy. i just recently had a couple of anglers ASK me to leave a hole and give the others a chance. i couldnt believe the nerve! i was there before them, i handed off fish to most of the kids on the bank, i have as much right to fish as they do. when i tried to share a tip of two they acted as though they knew it all already. i am not greedy, i just want to catch as many fish as i can, just like all of you do!
i have worked hard to make darn sure im one of the 10% that catches 90% of the fish. i have made many sacrafices to make sure of that. i am not married (most women dont like comming second to a rod), i dont have any kids, my hands are pinkish red many months of the year, and everything in my freezer is game meat, or bait to catch more. my fuel bill is well in excess of 400.00 a month just to go fishing, i spend hundreds of dollars per year on licenses and tags, do volunteer work to help fish runs and hatcheries, pick up garbage on the bank and hand a lot of fish off to people who might not normally take many fish home, and people have the nerve to criticize because ive caught too many fish or i keep two hens? if you want those bucks i released so badly, they are back in the water, go catch them on your own!
odfw has allowed harvest of fish and they know a certian number will be harvested every year, i can only keep 20 unclipped fish, the rest are all hatchery fish, no harm, no foul. i think some of you better get off your high horse!
(rant over)
now as for photographing wild fish, sure just use your head. why must people always insist we make everything "stupid proof"? i realize common sense isnt so common any more, but a quick photo or two wont hurt anything.
im waiting to see one of these days the controversy turn from diver and bait to bobber and bait. with good eggs a chinook will swallow so deep you cant even see the hook!

[galgumshoe]

I just voted unethical on everything. I'd rather be safe than sorry, and so many folks push the limits.

[Bankbound]

i think the question should have read "is fishing FOR spawning fish unethical". i have pulled many nice summer steelhead from behind old spring chinook, as well as a few nice sea run cutthroat. i do believe however that targeting spawning fish is wrong!

Exactly! I've put in the work and I can cast ANYWHERE I WANT. I love sight fishing for feeding big cutthroats and steelhead behind spawning chinooks, I'm not snagging jack stuff with an 6wt. and a size 12 yarn fly and 5lb test. See my previous post.

MH