School Zone Speed Limits

[StickFish]

I know there was a post about this, but couldn't find it - so!

I've been one to try and slow down. The only real zone I have to go through regularly is the one on Cornell in front of Sunset High School just west of Murry Blvd. I cannot tell you how many times people have honked at me and told me I'm number one for following the law. Couple times I wanted to really vent on them, but decided to save it for the racquetball court.

Anyhow yesterday after being told I was number 1 again and honked at again for driving 20mph (zone is a 30mph zone and is properly marked to drive 20 at all times) and venting in the weight room this time - I was surprised to see Beaverton's finest with their radar van out on Cornell when I left the club.

I decided since the sunset was so cool, I pulled over in the High School's parking lot and watched the strobe light on the van flash and flash and flash. By the time the orange grew to pink and faded the strobe had flashed a good 30 times with an average speed of 35-40mph.

If you don't like the law - sorry, this is not what the post is about. After patiently being told I'm number one I wish I could be the fly on the wall when some of those special tickets start to arrive.

Its getting darker earlier folks, kids are on the street, it isn't worth it - slow down!

[3riversBob]

[BrianMaguire]

I live right behind the area. 20 MPH 7X24 - 365 is just plain stupid for this area, the congestion is bad enough. When the kids are actually present there is so much traffic you can't go 20 so having the 20 MPH all the time is ridiculous. That Radar van has been out on Sunday mornings which is complete BS. This is simply a revenue generator for the city of Beaverton. The fine is over $350, imagine if you were making $10 an hour, this kind of fine could be devastating. This, IMO, are the safety ****'s gone haywire. The speed limit should be raised to 35 so that the 20 MPH limit is only when children are present. It's Cornell road, I can go 25 in my neighborhood.

[Jooky]

I think they should make us get out and push our cars past the school zone. That would make it a whole lot safer. Oh and you would also need to turn off your radio, as you need to pay full attention as you push.

The 20 mph wasn't about safety it was about $$.

How many kids got hit in a school zone before the law?

Who wrote this law?

[24 on/ 48 off]

The fine is over $350

Actually, that statement is only accurate if you are doing in excess of 31 miles per hour over the speed limit. 20 miles per hour over the limit (Twice the posted speed limit) is a fine of $201.00. That's alot less than $350.00.

Reference here

From the link:

Tickets for speeding through school zones are expensive: a base fine of $123 for going 21-30 mph; $201 for going 31-40 mph; $349 for going 41-50 mph; and $672 for going more than 50 mph.

so that the 20 MPH limit is only when children are present

The articles I have read on the subject stated that lawmakers heard too many complaints about the phrase "when children are present." It just seemed so ambiguous to them. The obvious solution was to make it easier for drivers to understand the speed limits- by having them in place 24/7 (if the speed limit was 35 or less). The legislaters gave credence to the fact that many and most schools are "community centers" and have children there often outside school hours. Examples may include: After school activites (sports, clubs), Boy Scouts, school dances, public meetings and concerts.

Lastly, I lived in Terra Linda for 16 years (next to Sunset high School) and I even graduated from there. That school zone stretch of Cornell Road is at best, a half mile long. Doing 20 miles per hour versus 35 miles per hour may cost someone at best 20 seconds of their time.

Is pedestrian safety worth twenty seconds? I hope so.

--spud--

[24 on/ 48 off]

How many kids got hit in a school zone before the law?

I dunno exactly. How many do you think it should take before lawmakers do something?

I assume it is zero.

We are americans. We do thinga proactively. If this slows down just one more driver and saves one kid's life, then I'm all for it.

--spud--

[2LEYS]

I drive by 3 schools on my way home every morning. First off there are enough stop signs and lights, not to mention traffic that going 20mph for 90 seconds of my 20 minute drive is hardly anything to [potty mouth] about.

I a take residential road for 3 miles. People tail me every morning when I am going 25. Had one person pull over and pass me. People take residential roads to avoid the traffic on the main roads but still think they can drive the main road speeds.

People need to take a step back and realize what they are complaining about. It is not a way to make money. It is a way to get stupid people to slow down. Everyone who lives in a residential neighborhood knows what I am talking about. And schools zones are even worse.

The 24/7 rule is a little lame but deal with it and slow down.

This from a recovered extremely aggressive driver with extreme road rage tendencies.

P.S. USE YOUR *(&#%@^& BLINKER.

[DF]

Having it 20mph at all times sure reminds me to slow down when it really counts

[Straydog]

I drive through many school zones in towns from Medford to Sutherlin. I have yet to see a police officer monitoring a school zone. For those that keep saying it is about the money, I have to wonder why there are no police officers in place to write all of these tickets they want to write "just for the money'".

[BrianMaguire]

I drive through many school zones in towns from Medford to Sutherlin. I have yet to see a police officer monitoring a school zone. For those that keep saying it is about the money, I have to wonder why there are no police officers in place to write all of these tickets they want to write "just for the money'".

The city of Beaverton was one of the municipalities that pushed for the Photo Red light, then photo radar laws. They park, on a very busy street at all hours (Cornell Road), which is litterally on their jurisdiction border, a photo radar van on Sunday mornings and all other hours that have nothing to do with Sunset HS safety. It is about the money.

[Straydog]

You believe you have evidence of one jurisdiction out of thousands taking advantage of a STATE law, so that means the law was formed "for the money"?

Ok.

[StickFish]

I had a feeling that a few who wanted to argu about the law would post and that is fine. It is nice to know that in the US we can complain about a law. To complain about a law, you need to complain to those who made the law. Complaining to me by telling me I'm number one for obeying the law only makes me want to hit the racquetball harder or lift weights longer which means I hit the ball harder. It gets you no closer to solving what you believe is a problem, state legislators passing a law that in your mind is only intended to generate revenue.

Don't complain to the police officer who pulls you over, he is only doing his job - enforcing the laws according to the power he is granted by his training, the trust you place in him to be in that position, and the oath that he swore to do his job. Pitching a fit at him might get a few other overlooked violations added on.

You can complain to the Judge in traffic court, but again the judge didn't create the law. Stick to your facts be polite and you might get a reduced bail charge or have the ticket waived.

Now in the particular on Cornell it is congested because there is a shoping center a high school and a City recreation/athletics complex all within two blocks. I see kids using the soccar fields all the time; outside of school hours. So while school isn't in session, there are always kids there. Last night while pulling out of the Chevron station, a polite citizen nearly ran over a father and two kids walking their bikes in the cross walk with the green light in their favor. The polite citizen gunned his engine and tried to charge through the intersection to make his left hand turn and beat the kids to their first step into the cross walk. This resulted in him having to screech to a halt two feet from hitting the kids and making them nearly have to jump out of this polite citizens way. He by the way rewarded the parent and kids with the universal one figered slogun that I have always taken to mean that I'm number 1.

That brings up new law #2, Cross Walks. Give them a break

And don't forget new law #3, emergency vehicles in the break down lane or emergency parking lane - better not pass one in the near lane, if there is no far lane you had better really slow down (whatever that means).

Kids are hit and killed in cross walks all the time. Emergency workers are hit and injured all the time on the side of the road.

Where there are kids, they will make mistakes and charge out in the road after a cat, a ball, trying not to get cuddies from the boy that is chasing them without looking. They are kids and kids make mistakes. That child that gets killed because some thinks that 30 seconds out of their day is a big deal is being very selfish. Ok so you miss the beginning of the news, late for dinner, or that cold beverage that the end of the day - LEAVE EARLIER - MAKE TIME

That child may be the Doctor who develops the cure to cancer, that child may be the golfer who someday brings the Rider Cup home, that child may be the inventor of the technology that will move us away from fossil fuel, that child might be your own, that child may be the counslor who saves your marriage, or takes the chance on you for a new job that you need, or becomes the teacher who makes a life long impression on your own kids or grand kids.

Is it really worth it! SLOW DOWN - MOVE OVER - LET PEOPLE CROSS THE STREET

[DF]

Stickfish

Please please PLEASE slow down at emergency scenes...sadley I have almost been hit about 3 times. One lady ran over three flares before she got to me and she almost got my flashlight through her windshield!
Another time, a lady in a suv 'figures' brushed me. Another fire fighter up the street yells at her to slow down and she just waves like its nothing
And another, on a traffic stop, has a car realize...uh oh...theres lights in front of me and to officers standing there.....WHAT EVER SHALL I DO?! oh ya, I think i'll stop...almost a little to late

please please please be careful out there!

[ET]

The police motto was "protect and serve". Who is being protected by giving tickets using a camera? The law-breakers don't even have to slow down to receive their ticket! They get it in the mail after the fact. How concerned are the police about the danger if they aren't even present to slow drivers down? The stated rational behind this law was to protect the children and that it was difficult to enforce the "when children are present" areas. With our(silent citizens) blessing, the police motto has been morphed into "tax and harass".

Policemen choose when to enforce laws. Everyone realizes that laws are selectively enforced when it is necessary to protect citizens from danger. You won't get a ticket for jaywalking on a deserted downtown street on Sunday, but you may get a ticket if you do the same thing on Monday when traffic is flying by.

I lose all respect for our police officers when they choose to enforce laws to generate income and not to protect citizens.

[Salmo trutta]

Install flashing yellow lights at every school zone. When the light flash its 20 mph, when they don't it's as otherwise posted. That would take the guess work out of everything. Why would there be children at a school at 2am? Don't most towns have a curfew?

[24 on/ 48 off]

How concerned are the police about the danger if they aren't even present to slow drivers down?

...And people are always asking, "How come you're not out looking for the real bad guys?" Well, now they can- and we still get mad. Hmmm.. Regardless, The police are concerned enough to place the vans there to protect yours, your families, and your neighbor's kids. I still have trouble with the idea that people are upset by the fact that police are using technology to help out our kids.

Install flashing yellow lights at every school zone.

That's pretty costly. Where does the money for that come from?

I got an easier idea. How about we just assume that all school zones have either a cop with a radar gun on a motorcycle, or a photo-radar van parked nearby. Drive with that mentality, and nobody would ever get a ticket.

--spud--

[Salmo trutta]

The same place the money came from to manufacture and install all the new signs.

[ET]

The police are concerned enough to place the vans there to protect yours, your families, and your neighbor's kids.

At 2AM? At 4AM on Sunday? That is bogus. I am all for enforcing the law when children are or are likely present. But ticketing drivers at odd hours shows only that the police see an easy way to pay for those vans and cameras. Protecting our children...give me a break...under these conditions, it is only a convenient excuse to make law-breakers out of good people.

I was driving down in Beaverton today and happened to go by a couple of schools. I had a guy from Ohio with me and the thought occured to me, "What about the poor out-of-state sap that gets nailed with a big hefty fine on a Sunday afternoon?" Is the state "protecting our kids" or just collecting revenue from unsuspecting saps?

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

Not being one to normally abide by the posted speed limit on the freeway, I have always slowed down at schools, residential areas, and just basically driving around populated areas. In fact I have been known to slow down to around 10 mph in residential areas when I spot children on those scooters :shocked:. Those things are just plain dangerous. I have had kids zip right out into the street in front of me. I didn't have to slam on the brakes because I was going slow. Around schools with the concentrations of kids horseing around, pushing and shoving. You never know when you may need to stop in a hurry. 20 mph around schools is a good thing. I don't think 24/7 is appropriate but it gets peoples attention.

I have no problem with the law.

We need another law. A Fast Lane Law. We need to make the fast lane 85 mph and give out tickets to anyone doing under 80 mph if they are driving in it. If you can't drive that speed then stay out of the fast lane. Oh I forgot, Oregon doesn't have a fast lane. In most states it's the left lane. And if you get in that lane and go 55 you will be sorry .

[DF]

Is the state "protecting our kids" or just collecting revenue from unsuspecting saps?

oh jeeze....look out! the cops are out to get you!

Next on I-team 12 investigates! "police use their power to to stop poor unsuspecting saps (who happen to be speeing) to take money away from the ones they are sworn to protect and serve

I agree with the "at all times" rule....what would you do if some idiot hit your kid, or the car your in picking up your kid because he was speeding, and when asked if he knew about the 20mph law he says "yea..but what time is it?"

[BrianMaguire]

At what point does the big hand of government stop violating your liberties in the name of safety. These, photo radar, photo red light, laser speed guns, are slow erosion into civil liberties. Would it be OK to put a photo radar on the median on streets other than school zones? Well this is the case now. The photo radar law has been changed to include areas the municipality considers risky. How about extending it to all city street? How about putting them all over 1-5? Surely these measures would make things safer.

The point being that 20 MPH is such a slow speed that going 35, although percentage wise is a great difference, with today's cars is negligible and the increased safety is not noticeable IMO yet the use of photo radar is a large erosion to the pursuit of life and liberty IMO. One should not have to be on the watch out for the "government" and be afraid that you may be violating the law when you are driving cautiously and safely. Eventually your car may have a speed monitoring device in it that reports you if you go over a speed limit, you won't need a photoradar van. Most vehicles have anti lock brakes and gobs of safety improvements since the time these speed limits were originally implemented.

Specifically, on Cornell road, in front of Sunset HS, the largest danger is not the drivers actually on Cornell road but the kids coming out of the school parking lot. I worked directly across the street for 3 years and still reside in the neighborhood. 20 MPH is ridicules and photo radar vans are ridicules.

Ben Franklin once said. "Those that would give up an essential liberty for a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." The safety ****'s are thick among us and they will eventually erode all of our civil liberties.

[Straydog]

Ben Franklin once said. "Those that would give up an essential liberty for a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." The safety ****'s are thick among us and they will eventually erode all of our civil liberties.

Brian,

I agree to a certain extent but have to tell you, given what is going in the big picture in our country in terms of civil liberties and big brother, cameras monitoring our speed is the absolute least of my worries.......... :smile:

[LrgCampfires]

Beaverton cops are tops in my book, but man.....gimme a break with the photo radar van on every other block. That new law regarding 20 mph at all times in a school zone is ridiculous and open to VERY broad interpretation, by whatever cop might be around, who may or may not be short on his quota.....er.... I mean performance expectation. Same goes for that new and insane crosswalk law. Most people that I almost run over clearly cross against the light, don't look, and act like they don't even care.

These two laws are clearly stupid and either feel good legislation or meant to generate revenue.

By the way, I live in a school zone with a lot of kids and my own kid walks home every afternoon. I drive SAFE. I have a CDL and over 1,000,000 accident and ticket free miles. Yet when I get within a mile of my home I honestly tense up and feel like I'm about to be hunted down by the Gestapo.

I feel much the same about most Beaverton bicyclists too. Yes, I know.......they get right of way, just like a pedestrian....but where does it end ? A lot of these people do not obey the laws that apply to them, but no one seems to care about that. Just ticket the automobile driver.

End of rant,

LrgCampfires

[hawgcatcher]

Ok I can agree with the 20MPH in school zones from 7 am to even 7 PM and I understand the 35MPH areas, but what about when I come to an area and the signs state 20MPH from 7 am to 10 am then again from 2 Pm to 5 pm? What am I supposed to do? According to state law it is 20 MPH 24/7 yet these signs are appearing in several locations. I get totally confused. :whazzup: :whazzup:

[StickFish]

Revenue generating laws? If they were not broken, how would they generate revenue?

Stupid laws? Well enough people complained and the laws in place we changed to address the complaints.

Big Brother Government, or Big Government? This one always makes me shake my head. We are the Government. Each and every one of you who participates in that process, if you VOTE. So you think you can't participate because of all the BIG money interference. You participate in that every time you open you wallet. It is that participation in the process that caused the laws to be created and changed - to address concerns of the people.

If the laws were not broken and peoples safety wasn't at issue, the government couldn't afford to purchase special enforcement aids like radar vans, radar stop lights, ect.

[BrianMaguire]

Revenue generating laws? If they were not broken, how would they generate revenue?

This is the point we are making. If a law is broken, maybe it is because the law is outdated? Take the 55 MPH speed limit for instance. Many of these "speed" laws were designed and implemented in a time when vehicles were far inferior to the vehicles of today. There is no vested interest in the powers in place to change them due to the need to continue funding. I serve on the board of directors for 2 organizations, and also ran as a candidate for the state house. I know, and regularly converse with "elected" officials and if you for 1 instant don't believe meeting budget is not the biggest concern you have your head in the sand.

If the laws were not broken and peoples safety wasn't at issue, the government couldn't afford to purchase special enforcement aids like radar vans, radar stop lights, ect.

Yeah the government can never seem to afford the things that do not generate "revenue" but a $200K radar van is possible. They don't give a lick about "safety", they use it as a revenue generator and a protection to the actions they take. If you have ever considered running for office you would understand. A law like the new school speed limit is one of those laws that you can't really be "against" if someone proposes it. If you oppose it you are "against" child safety and are in dire jeopardy of your seat.

The Oregon legislature is 1/2 time that normal citizens can not afford to run for office. It is "really" a full time job that pays less than $20K a year. C'mon, normal, family people can not make this type of sacrifice, I know I registered to run, as a Republican, against Mitch Greenlick. I pulled out of the primary because I found out my wife was pregnant the day after I registered. We are not "really" part of the government and have not been for some time. It takes money to influence, I know I am a squeaky wheel and it takes a titanic amount of time to get simple little things changed, like the reduction in cow tags for a single unit.

When I ran for office you would not believe the phone calls and information I was inundated with by special interests. If you still think for 1 minute that this law is not a revenue/politically motivated ploy you are simply kidding yourself. I bet that 1 person who was concerned put this forth to a state legislature, this person understood the potential "positive political implications " and that it may "protect children", set the wheel in motion and there was no way it could not fail to pass. this is garbage and a pure product of our political system. Its a perfect political item: it "protects children" (how could you be against children?) and generates gobs more money than existing laws. Stay tuned you will have more of these to come as long as state and local governments grow faster than personal income and job growth.

BTW - your vote does not count for "jack", however a $1000 political contribution will get you a direct phone call away.

[LrgCampfires]

Voting is a joke anyway...when are people gonna stop believing TV and wake up ?

I don't recall being asked to vote on the 20 mph school zone thing...does anyone else ?

LrgCampfires

[lost_sailor]

You could have voted for the guys who made the law. That's how the system is designed, by the way.

[StickFish]

I was hoping that I wasn't the only one who understood that.