Releasing Unmarked Springers....

[Lured In]

In light of the likely new regulation of not removing unmarked springers from the water, let's get some thoughts on best practices for doing this.

I know some folks don't net at all, others net, but don't remove the net from the water. Still others use siwash vs treble hooks. Anyone going barbless on their plugs this year? What about gloves and wetting your hands before handling fish? Do you try not to touch the fish at all?

What brought this on for me, was the "fish lip grippers" that bass and saltwater fisherman use. Has anybody tried these on salmon or steelhead. Most fish that these have traditionally been used on either have a hard mouth or lots of teeth. Do you think a springers mouth is tough enough to handle one of these or would it only cause more damage? Again this would only be to control the fish while in the water, so you don't have to net or touch the fish and make releasing easier still.

Thoughts?

[husker]

whe i release nates.....i use a glove and tail the fish...then use needle nose pliers and pop the fish off......no big deal....fish swims off good to go... :smile:

[Riverkeeper]

What about one of those long hook removers that you slide down the line to the hook, then twist him off (the ones suggested for use during ocean coho season)?

[Irie1]

Heavy leaders. No net, no hands on fish. Long needle nose for plugs, and a sharp blade for bait. This should be a standard to releasing nates. At least it is in my book

[ 01-16-2004, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Irie1 ]

[Fast Water]

I think a quality net is important as well as a decent <long> hook removal tool with a wrist rope.

I will also tail them for sure.

:smile:

[ 01-16-2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Fast Water ]

[high_arc]

Is there a brand of glove that is better than the other for tailing the fish?

[Silver Hilton]

I net the fish, and leave it in the water. The two things that kill fish are buildup of lactic acid from over fighting the fish, and collapse of the gills when removed from the water after exertion. I have never read any scientific account of the net mesh itself injuring the fish. I believe the advantage of being able to fight the fish quickly and contain it safely probably outweighs the risk to the skin.

Most of my plugs wear siwashs to ease unhooking, as well. I don't know about barbless - I don't know how much difference that would make. But it wouldn't bother me a bit to go barbless.

[Flatfish]

Hilton,

I have read( mostly in "In Fisherman" several times how netting removes the slime layer which protects the fish from bacteria.

One would think that a fish that spends a lot of time in freshwater( and rather polluted water at that), like springers do, would be rather succeptable( sp) to infections from bacteria.

I do like the idea of single hooks. But only if sportsman can show how their use reduces mortality, therefore lowering our allocation impact.

With heavy leaders, nets are not an essential( IMHO). But on light stuff, it gets tougher to just pull them in and hold them there. 40# Max is my friend with Kwikies.

Mark and the dog.

[Lured In]

My bad, I should have been more specific in my initial post. Like many, I spend the majority of my springer season soaking kwikfish in the Big C.

So how about specifics on release techniques for plugs and whether you use trebles, siwash or barbless siwash.

There seems to be 3 general situations that I run into.

1. The fish comes to the boat and is easily identified. Either net or get ready for release.

2. Fish comes to the boat and won't present a clear shot of the ad fin, freaks on the boat and goes for another run.

3. Fish stays deep and fights well away from the boat preventing any chance of ID'ing it.

All 3 of these can present a challenge when dealing with an umarked fish.

In the first scenario, you have a fish who may still have plenty of fight left and go nuts when you grab the leader, try to get pliers on the hook, or try to tail it. In this scenario, I am inclined to net the fish (leave in water) and go for a quick release. Balancing the stress of netting against potentially exhausting the fish.

In the second scenario, the fish may be a little more subdued and so I would likely not use the net and go for the tail or pliers release.

In the third scenario, reviving the fish becomes more important as the fight is usually longer. Thus lending itself to tailing it and making sure it kicks out for the release. (I have seen a pliers release on these fish and they float belly up upon release. :depressed: )

Of course these scenarios don't take into account drifting down on another hogline, rough water conditions and how well the fish is hooked. (among other things)

It seems to me that each of these presents a potential increase in harm to the fish depending on how well it goes.

Netting. Could remove slime, but makes for a relatively quick release.

Pliers. Good but if you have an exhausted fish, it may not be recovered enough for a healthy release.

Tailing. May be excessive contact with the fish, but provides for a good recovery on an exhausted fish.

So...this leads be back to my question about the lip grippers. If they don't cause additional damage, you could safely control the fish, remove the hooks and still have control to revive an exhausted fish for release. Thoughts...?

"And now back to our previously scheduled discussion..."

[ 01-16-2004, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Lured In ]

[Silver Hilton]

Originally posted by Flatfish:
I have read( mostly in "In Fisherman" several times how netting removes the slime layer which protects the fish from bacteria.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Flatfish,

Everyone, please interpret the following as it is intended, simply as debate of the concept. Mark's dog tells me that despite being opinionated to the point of pigheadishness, he's really a nice guy. :smile:

I have also read these stories, also many times. I don't think they are very scientific, and I haven't seen any formal studies that support the claims. If there is solid evidence otherwise, I'll change quickly, but I haven't seen it, and I keep my eyes open. While we see these anecdotal stories in the magazines, my personal experience, and I think common sense, contradicts the stories. I fish a couple of rivers that have a lot of catch and release action, and most folks use nets on these fish. I have personally caught and released the same steelhead three times over a month, using a net each time. On one of these rivers, I'm on the river two, three days a week throughout the fall season. If nets killed steelhead, I'd see them. The crick is not that big. In the Columbia, large numbers of wild fish are caught and released, and presumably, recaught again. If nets created tangible wounds, we'd see the results in the nets of upriver fishermen.

I think if net injury was a real phenomenon, we would see fish appearing with skin damage in the pattern of landing nets (not gill nets, which we do see). We'd see fish dying later in the run, with infected sores in geometric patterns. Fish would be bleeding, and we'd see the skin tearing.

We don't actually see that though, do we? Or maybe we do, and I need to be educated, which is always a possibility. Seriously, if you think about it, salmon skin is pretty tough, when you try to cut it or tear it. Is it reasonable to think that a fish net is going to damage that skin, particularly if the fish is not lifted above the water?

We hear the stories about how, if you take off the slime, that the fish will die. But that assumes that the slime is the effective barrier for disease transmission and fluid/chemical balance management. That would make salmon unique, as the skin itself manages that issue for every other vertebrate on the planet.

So, being that fact-based guy that I am, I observe that

a) there are solid, scientific studies that demonstrate that fighting fish too long contributes to a higher death rate. Lactic acid kills fish.

b) there are solid studies that indicate tha taking fish out of water when stressed, even only for 10 seconds, kills many fish.

c) thrashing fish with lures in their mouth are dangerous to both fish and fishermen.


So, I conclude that it is better for both the fish and fisherman to net the fish, assuming that you fight the fish aggressively, keep the fish in the water, and contain the fish so it doesn't bruise itself on the side of your boat. I think I, at least, can take better care of the fish with a net than without.

Looking forward to testing the theory some more this spring,

Andrew

[Mrdorkfish]

I think if you replace those stock hooks with even one size larger you will have better luck releasing fish...those sticky little stock hooks give you fits !! I know that some boats are further from the surface of the water than others but...for the majority of us with "normal" boats...just keep the fish in the water and take a little extra care and time to release that fish without any undo stress. Good luck and thank you for your support.
Oh..and no nets :tongue:
MrDorkfish [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Louis

[ 01-16-2004, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Mrdorkfish ]

[Fast Water]

We can look at this this to the n'th degree, but I hope thaat everybody understands not to dally around when messin' with the fish.

You may scrape off a little slime when netting the fish but it will continue to pump it out until its strees level drop off. (Steelhead are the worst) I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Don't touch the gills or eyes.
Remove the hook(s) without causing additional damage.
Work smoothly and quickly and you won't have cause for excess concern.

:smile:

[Fast Water]

High Arc,

Having personally tailed about 15 to 20,000 fish in the last 4 months, I would say a plain cotton glove works the best. I tried a few different types and always went back to the cotton.

I think I'm gonna invent a glove with small sharp plastic spikes in the palm and fingers.

:smile:

[Pete]

I put the net away when I see the adipose and reach for the pliers. But this year I have a new tool I think will work well. It grips the hook shank and with a squeeze, turns the hook 180º.

[high_arc]

Thanks Mark, I think I have some of those laying around the garage.

[The Overfishin Condition]

I'd love to use the hook remover that is suggested for ocean coho, but, with a kwikfish at least, even if you are using siwash hooks, it still would be pretty difficult I think. I in the past, have netted some wild fish for release, but have never taken them out of the water. Seems like while hoglined, my technique for telling whether it's a keeper or not, has always been if the fish comes on board, I've always taken for granted that a wild fish would be left in the water. The main reason that I usually net fish, is because I'm always terrified that they'll spit the hook on the third, fourth, or fifth trip away from the boat, if you don't net them while they're green, and fight them to exhaustion instead. In this case, sometimes I'm not able to tell whether it's clipped or not in the few looks at it you might get. It seems like in the process of wearing a fish out to exhaustion, then trying to tail or net it, you increase your odds greatly of losing a fish. If it helps save "wild fish," or unclipped hatchery fish then perhaps this is worth it. Main question, are we in concordance that exhausting a fish, and tailing it to remove hooks is better than bringing the fish in quick, netting it and releasing it?