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Old 09-21-2013, 09:02 AM   #61
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Since we don't know the outfitter, I hope no other ifishers have the unfortunate experience of booking with these guys.

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Old 09-21-2013, 09:27 AM   #62
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Since we don't know the outfitter, I hope no other ifishers have the unfortunate experience of booking with these guys.
I agree. If it was me the outfitters name would be in big black bold type. Seems like a waste of time to post all that without identifying the outfit?? Just my

I would email the guy and let him know it would be documented in Extreme Elk (blunders edition) if there wasn't a full refund. Again my
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:20 AM   #63
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Since we don't know the outfitter, I hope no other ifishers have the unfortunate experience of booking with these guys.
I was thinking the same thing. It would be a shame to see a duplicate story
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:03 AM   #64
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Wha I don't get I why you guys didn't do anything to improve your situation. No call to the outfitter, no call to the authorities, didn't go after any of the elk on your own. You even had the cook and the guy you rescued as witnesses to the poor treatment you received. I can understand that you work in the hunting biz and don't want to raise a stink or give yourself a bad name, but this seems ridiculous. Everyone here knows that you're one of the most experienced guys around, seems like there should've been a way out of such a bad situation.

Is it safe to assume there are parts of the story we can't hear for possible legal reasons, any maybe that has something to do with it?
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Old 09-21-2013, 01:31 PM   #65
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Well you will never forget this hunt!! I'm flabbergasted, I agree name the outfitter. I will probably never hunt NM, but for those that might, they should know what they might get if they book with this crew, that is if there still in business.

Sounds like you guys went way above what I would have done, I'd probably be in jail.
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:06 PM   #66
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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No kidding!

Doesn't it suck when a guide fails to be a man? Worthless ***!

BU

You worded that perfectly, BU! That is not a man, that is a sad sack!!

BB, I sincerely admire your restraint and actions in the light of trying to salvage what you could for your friend.

Last edited by Klamath_King; 09-21-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:45 AM   #67
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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I was thinking the same thing. It would be a shame to see a duplicate story


Wow sorry for your lousy hunt.It is on my bucket list to hunt New Mexico and i do not want to book with an outfitter like that.Please post the name of the outfitter so I do not book with him. pm me if you like.Thanks Rick
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:07 PM   #68
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Wow.

Much worse than our experience in NM & AZ, but along a similar story line. I recommend DIY to anyone else.

There's enough elk down there that most guys don't need a guide.

Wow.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #69
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Wow
I commend you for the high road and focusing on your friend. please update as the rest unfolds
Maybe I'm to much of a loose cannon I'm amazed you were able to stay civil. I was turning red just reading.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:03 PM   #70
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I have heard zero response from the outfitter so... I dont want to see anyone else dealing with this kind of mayhem either.

it was Beaverhead Outfitters in Winston New Mexico.
Owners name is Jack Diamond, Guides name is Tony Martinez

I heard back from the other hunter last week. Our guide was left in the field with him, as expected he went home empty handed too. He has filed a complaint with Cabelas and the other organizations as well.

I have more photos to post up.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:09 PM   #71
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Wow
I commend you for the high road and focusing on your friend. please update as the rest unfolds
Maybe I'm to much of a loose cannon I'm amazed you were able to stay civil. I was turning red just reading.
When he wrecked the truck I was ready to ride him out like a raft. I knew it wasnt the time to be irate.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:23 PM   #72
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Just checked out the website..... Ironically there isn't anything in the "testimonial" section
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:24 PM   #73
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

I clicked on the "Testimonials" section on their website and it says "Coming Soon." Got a good laugh when i read that!
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:35 PM   #74
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Another "funny" thing about the website, in the picture section there are a ton of small bulls. I'd say 50% of what they have posted is not that impressive, especially considering where they're located and how much it costs to hunt there. And they've mastered the art of the "stand back 10 feet to make it look bigger" photo
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:27 PM   #75
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Thanks for the specifics Wil! It's info well worth getting out there. I am super leery of hiring and outfitter already so it's good to have one checked off the list.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:09 AM   #76
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Another "funny" thing about the website, in the picture section there are a ton of small bulls. I'd say 50% of what they have posted is not that impressive, especially considering where they're located and how much it costs to hunt there. And they've mastered the art of the "stand back 10 feet to make it look bigger" photo
F***ing Dinks!!!LOL
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:50 AM   #77
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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I have heard zero response from the outfitter so.....
Keep the pressure on. I would do the following:

Send a letter of complaint to the New Mexico Game and Fish Commission with cc to Cabelas, the Outfitter and the New Mexico Better Business Bureau. Include your original communications with the letter. Request information on the steps necessary to lodge a formal complaint with the Game Commission against both Cabelas and the Outfitter.

Send a letter of complaint to the New Mexico Better Business Bureau with cc to Cabelas, the Outfitter and the New Mexico Game and Fish Commission. Include your original communications with the letter. Request information on the steps necessary to lodge a formal complaint with the New Mexico BBB against both the Outfitter and Cabelas.

It seems redundant but trust me, the more bureaucrats who see this with multiple cc's....... they start moving because they have to.

Do the above in both electronic format with delivery receipt and read receipt. Take $20 and send registered mail (signature required) with hard copies of the above to each - Cabelas, the Outfitter, New Mexico Game and Fish Commission and the New Mexico BBB.

The squeky wheel (and Cabelas seeing this headed to the NM BBB + NM Game and Fish Commission) will probably get some grease. Hopefully in a rapid way........

Keep us posted. This really blows for you guys.
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:07 AM   #78
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

NM Council of Guides and Outfitters....

http://www.nmoutfitters.com/
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:19 AM   #79
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Sent an email to the website above this morning. Just spoke with a friend of mine and he suggests calling fish and game in NM and letting them know that they did zero to try and recover the animal my friend arrowed on friday night.

There was a quad in camp, but it was off limits to anyone. after we walked the road in to get the equipment out of the truck, we could have used it to skirt the deeper water and at least make an attempt.

I did receive an email back from the daughter of the outfitter, she informed me that her and her husband are no longer involved with the business, but did provide me with more contact info for the outfitter.
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:42 AM   #80
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Hunting to me is suppose to be enjoyable. Sorry to hear you 2 went through all that. Little bit different in that part of the country for sure. I've had similar situations with guides in NM. Hopefully with Mikyla's Elk tag coming up we have a enjoyable trip.

Sorry to hear this!

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Old 09-23-2013, 08:52 AM   #81
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

That's a horrible story Wil. Sorry to hear it...
From the Beavercreek Outfitters website:

Testimonials
Coming Soon!


Coming soon?? You'd better hope not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:03 AM   #82
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Wow.

Much worse than our experience in NM & AZ, but along a similar story line. I recommend DIY to anyone else.

There's enough elk down there that most guys don't need a guide.

Wow.
Your odds on the draw triple when putting in with a guide in NM. (roughly)

Finding the "Right Guide" is the issue..............
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:15 AM   #83
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Default

Bowsite has a pretty good outfitter ratings section with multiple listings for this outfitter. Pops up on google.

That said, outfitters are jammin busy this time of year. They shoulda been in contact obviously but I can imagine their story will be you slandered them all over the Internet without giving them a chance to respond, your friend was into elk the whole time and was successful in arrowing a good bull but unforeseen weather event made it impossible to recover the bull. No telling what other stuff they make up. We know this is all BS but you now know the kind of outfit you are dealing with. As a friend of mine says, it was a character test - they failed.

After giving the outfitter and cabelas a fair chance to respond and make it right, I would definitely wall paper the Internet.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #84
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Keep the pressure on. I would do the following:

Send a letter of complaint to the New Mexico Game and Fish Commission with cc to Cabelas, the Outfitter and the New Mexico Better Business Bureau. Include your original communications with the letter. Request information on the steps necessary to lodge a formal complaint with the Game Commission against both Cabelas and the Outfitter.

Send a letter of complaint to the New Mexico Better Business Bureau with cc to Cabelas, the Outfitter and the New Mexico Game and Fish Commission. Include your original communications with the letter. Request information on the steps necessary to lodge a formal complaint with the New Mexico BBB against both the Outfitter and Cabelas.

It seems redundant but trust me, the more bureaucrats who see this with multiple cc's....... they start moving because they have to.

Do the above in both electronic format with delivery receipt and read receipt. Take $20 and send registered mail (signature required) with hard copies of the above to each - Cabelas, the Outfitter, New Mexico Game and Fish Commission and the New Mexico BBB.

The squeky wheel (and Cabelas seeing this headed to the NM BBB + NM Game and Fish Commission) will probably get some grease. Hopefully in a rapid way........

Keep us posted. This really blows for you guys.
I agree with one addition to that list. The Attorney General in most states has a consumer protection division. I'd definitely send them a copy.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:25 PM   #85
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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I have heard zero response from the outfitter so... I dont want to see anyone else dealing with this kind of mayhem either.

it was Beaverhead Outfitters in Winston New Mexico.
Owners name is Jack Diamond, Guides name is Tony Martinez

I heard back from the other hunter last week. Our guide was left in the field with him, as expected he went home empty handed too. He has filed a complaint with Cabelas and the other organizations as well.

I have more photos to post up.
Thanks Wil.

When you get some time post some more pictures. Even though the hunt was less than stellar I'm sure you took some great photos.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:28 PM   #86
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Such a small world.

My buddy guides for Jack part-time.

Tony Morales is the guides name and he gave a BS story about what took place. My buddy was familiar with this story. I sent him this link and plan on speaking with him tomorrow.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:44 PM   #87
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Such a small world.

My buddy guides for Jack part-time.

Tony Morales is the guides name and he gave a BS story about what took place. My buddy was familiar with this story. I sent him this link and plan on speaking with him tomorrow.
The plot thickens.......

Any idea what Tonys side of the story is?
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:05 PM   #88
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Such a small world.

My buddy guides for Jack part-time.

Tony Morales is the guides name and he gave a BS story about what took place. My buddy was familiar with this story. I sent him this link and plan on speaking with him tomorrow.
Quote:
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The plot thickens.......

Any idea what Tonys side of the story is?
Can't wait for this chapter....

BU
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:28 PM   #89
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Can't even imagine....feel sorry for your buddy!
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:15 PM   #90
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

This just seems like an obvious question Will...but how did ya'll come to select this particular outfitter?

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Old 09-24-2013, 08:07 AM   #91
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Yesterday I received a call from Jack Diamond, I also received a call from the executive director of the New Mexico Council of Guides and Outfitters with the paperwork to file a grievance against the guide in question and the Outfitter. She was very apologetic about the situation.

I had an interesting and cordial conversation with Mr Diamond. He sure seemed to promise a lot but in the end, he seemed more concerned with making sure that my friend would not pursue any action with Cabelas towards his business.

He asked my friend to hold off with any further action until the end of the month He has to finish hunting and then he was going to head into the area where my friend shot his bull and see if they can find it (?????) ok...

He will then ship the antlers back to Missouri for him to have. I am not sure how this fixes the problem; it doesn't.

I'll wait and see what transpires but I already an idea of what I need to do for myself.

I'll post up some more pics
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:34 AM   #92
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Yesterday I received a call from Jack Diamond, I also received a call from the executive director of the New Mexico Council of Guides and Outfitters with the paperwork to file a grievance against the guide in question and the Outfitter. She was very apologetic about the situation.

I had an interesting and cordial conversation with Mr Diamond. He sure seemed to promise a lot but in the end, he seemed more concerned with making sure that my friend would not pursue any action with Cabelas towards his business.

He asked my friend to hold off with any further action until the end of the month He has to finish hunting and then he was going to head into the area where my friend shot his bull and see if they can find it (?????) ok...

He will then ship the antlers back to Missouri for him to have. I am not sure how this fixes the problem; it doesn't.


I'll wait and see what transpires but I already an idea of what I need to do for myself.

I'll post up some more pics
Sounds like his real mission is to protect this "guide".
My bet is that with BB on the trail, it won't matter what he does.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:07 AM   #93
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

I think Jack Diamond will probably throw his guide under the bus, to protect his business. I wonder how much of his business comes from the Cabelas guide and outfitter program?

Man, I hope he makes it right. And I don't mean by shipping some sawed off antlers to Missouri. That is not making it right. A full refund is in order, and even some expense reimbursement for the airline tickets and rental car.

Good work on thoroughly documenting your experience, with words and pics.

Keep us posted.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:04 AM   #94
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

What I don't fully understand is why he felt he had to treat you guys like crap. Honestly it doesn't sound like he had a difficult job, there were obviously bulls everywhere and you guys had no problems finding them. Wouldn't it have been easier for him to let your buddy shoot the first bull he wanted to? Quick and easy, trip over, and he could go back to pounding beers and failing at life in general.

This story could very easily have the narrative of "guided NM hunt, guide was a little rough around the edges but got us on a nice bull that we killed day 2" the end.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:37 AM   #95
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Will have you received any responce back from the outfitter? are you going to put this story in extreme elk? what is the name of the outfitter?
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:52 AM   #96
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Sounds fishy to me, that they want your friend to wait.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:57 AM   #97
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

I would probably give him two weeks to make full refund of the trip. Then make my complaint if he hasn't. I bet there is a clock ticking for your complaint related to his bond, license or contracts etc.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #98
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Sounds fishy to me, that they want your friend to wait.
His comment was he is too busy to deal with it right now. He has other hunters in camp...

ummmm... yeah, my thoughts exactly.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #99
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

To little to late. Damage is done. We only get so many seasons to hunt then our final season comes. Taking away a once in a lifetime hunt and endangering peoples lifes is over the edge.

What if that had been an older mans last hunt? A lot of what ifs run through my head and this guide and the outfitter who hired him need to be hit hard.

It sounds like hitting him through cabelas is where its going to hurt the most.

Go for the throat and rip it out.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:14 AM   #100
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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I would probably give him two weeks to make full refund of the trip. Then make my complaint if he hasn't. I bet there is a clock ticking for your complaint related to his bond, license or contracts etc.
Four days, tops.

Think of the hunters who might avoid a nightmare like yours based on how you proceed.


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Old 09-24-2013, 11:39 AM   #101
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Wow...now the facebook posts make sense. Sorry about that whole deal Wil, even more sorry to your buddy. Sounds like you are taking the correct actions. Ive got a feeling we are gonna see that outfitter push it all onto his "Guide". Maybe that is how it should happen, maybe not. I trust you would know best.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:55 AM   #102
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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His comment was he is too busy to deal with it right now. He has other hunters in camp...

ummmm... yeah, my thoughts exactly.
So if I'm understanding him correctly, he's asking you not to inconvenience him for inconveniencing you. Sounds reasonable.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:09 PM   #103
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Such a small world.

My buddy guides for Jack part-time.

Tony Morales is the guides name and he gave a BS story about what took place. My buddy was familiar with this story. I sent him this link and plan on speaking with him tomorrow.
Wow...

Tony is a thug
Tony is a di$*
Tony does kill big animals but is horrible with clients
Tony usually only guides on 16C by the lodge (not other units away from Jack's watchful eye)
Tony lied to Jack about the racist remarks (he's done this before)
Tony should not have been drinking
Tony blamed Wil and his friend for getting the truck stuck (said they told him to go for it)

My buddy confirmed everything documented about Tony's character and was not surprised.

Jack has been operating his business for 35+ years and is now willing to let his reputation go down the tubes over 1 bad guide (who they knew was a liability).

When things go sideways with any customer...the reaction/response to the problem is more critical than the problem itself. Jack has a small window of time to make things right before the damage is done and his business suffers long term.

Jack...do the right thing!
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:36 PM   #104
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

A thug? Sounds more like a coward, if he cant own up to his crappy driving, and lies about someone making racist remarks... Sounds like the kid deserves an ass whoopin, he will get it someday Im sure.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:58 AM   #105
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Wow...

Tony is a thug
Tony is a di$*
Tony does kill big animals but is horrible with clients
Tony usually only guides on 16C by the lodge (not other units away from Jack's watchful eye)
Tony lied to Jack about the racist remarks (he's done this before)
Tony should not have been drinking
Tony blamed Wil and his friend for getting the truck stuck (said they told him to go for it)

My buddy confirmed everything documented about Tony's character and was not surprised.

Jack has been operating his business for 35+ years and is now willing to let his reputation go down the tubes over 1 bad guide (who they knew was a liability).

When things go sideways with any customer...the reaction/response to the problem is more critical than the problem itself. Jack has a small window of time to make things right before the damage is done and his business suffers long term.

Jack...do the right thing!

No disrespect Bmack, but if I understand what you are saying, is that thry knew the guy was a liability, had problems with him in the past, and had to keep a watchfull eye on him? I think the Mr. Diamond does own a lot of responsibility for this event as he knew this guy was trouble but continued to employ him. JMO.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:42 AM   #106
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Since he hired the guide he should be responsible for all his actions. I wouldn't accept anything less than a full refund and I'd be reporting to Cabela's and all of the other above referenced suggested contacts. There's no rational way of defending any of the crap you had to put up with.

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Yesterday I received a call from Jack Diamond, I also received a call from the executive director of the New Mexico Council of Guides and Outfitters with the paperwork to file a grievance against the guide in question and the Outfitter. She was very apologetic about the situation.

I had an interesting and cordial conversation with Mr Diamond. He sure seemed to promise a lot but in the end, he seemed more concerned with making sure that my friend would not pursue any action with Cabelas towards his business.

He asked my friend to hold off with any further action until the end of the month He has to finish hunting and then he was going to head into the area where my friend shot his bull and see if they can find it (?????) ok...

He will then ship the antlers back to Missouri for him to have. I am not sure how this fixes the problem; it doesn't.

I'll wait and see what transpires but I already an idea of what I need to do for myself.

I'll post up some more pics
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:48 AM   #107
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Jack Diamond sounds really familiar but I can't place it, yet...
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:13 AM   #108
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

To all: I am the "friend" the one with the NM Unit 16d tag. I am currently keeping my mouth shut regarding the hunt. I have spoke with the outfitter and have given him to the end of the month to make things right.

I do want to point out that, I have been fortunate to hunt the world. I've hunted along side literally hundreds of guides. There are good ones and bad ones. You just have to figure out how to work with them, how to read them and make them work for you.

The facts my friend has stated are true, however butting heads over every little thing is not the way to get things done in the field. Our guide is still a "kid", he needs to grow up and learn how to handle himself in many situations. I don't always agree or want to follow through with some guides methods. But, hey we all hunt differently and have our own tactics. This guides tactics were totally different than my friends, therefore the head butting started. Now this does not excuse his Drinking, and lack of care for his clients around camp, in the field and during the adventures flash flood we endured.

I go on hunts to have an adventures, to experience the great outdoors. Shooting an animal is a bonus for me. Am I disappointed in the service and not bringing home the meat and trophy, ABSOLUTELY! But, I saw a lot of bulls, I even shot a nice bull. If the flood had not come we would have retrieved the animal and I would have gone home happy and forgot about this "Guide". But the situation changed and caused even more tensions and stress to the situation.

Again, Am I unhappy about the total situation? YES. Should there be some sort of restoration by the Booking Agency and Outfitter? YES.
But I got my ADVENTURE! Therefore I would like for all of this to just be behind us now, as the constant blogs, emails, etc....are really dragging down the joy and memories I did have sharing an Adventure with a friend.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:14 AM   #109
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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Again, Am I unhappy about the total situation? YES. Should there be some sort of restoration by the Booking Agency and Outfitter? YES.
But I got my ADVENTURE! Therefore I would like for all of this to just be behind us now, as the constant blogs, emails, etc....are really dragging down the joy and memories I did have sharing an Adventure with a friend.
Sounds like you have the right mind set. Things happen...this was not a Make a Wish hunt or someones FINAL steps in the world.....life goes on. Most of us deal with idiots every day and you either stick it out with them or MOVE on.

And now that "your" adventure was posted you can count on hearing nothing but constant blogs, emails, etc......sometimes its best to handle things in the old way.....lol.

And I think it is easy to understand an employee does not define a corporation....imo....
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:08 AM   #110
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

This may rock the boat a little but here goes. I have been on a number of guided hunts here and in Africa, as the hunter and nonhunter alike. And in all cases the non hunter did not have any say in tactics, period. If what the guide wanted to do was alright with the hunter the discussion was over, and there was never any need to make a big deal about it.

I am not in no way excussing the drinking or other problems, but if everything started because the non hunter had problems with how the guide wanted to hunt then some of the blame rests with him.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #111
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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This may rock the boat a little but here goes. I have been on a number of guided hunts here and in Africa, as the hunter and nonhunter alike. And in all cases the non hunter did not have any say in tactics, period. If what the guide wanted to do was alright with the hunter the discussion was over, and there was never any need to make a big deal about it.

I am not in no way excussing the drinking or other problems, but if everything started because the non hunter had problems with how the guide wanted to hunt then some of the blame rests with him.
Thats not how it all started. I would be willing to bet that when someone treats with total disrespect from the beginning, and walked you around in circles Im sure you would ask questions too. We allowed our GUIDE to hunt his way, every day. the results of his abilities are listed above.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:07 AM   #112
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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To all: I am the "friend" the one with the NM Unit 16d tag. I am currently keeping my mouth shut regarding the hunt. I have spoke with the outfitter and have given him to the end of the month to make things right.

I do want to point out that, I have been fortunate to hunt the world. I've hunted along side literally hundreds of guides. There are good ones and bad ones. You just have to figure out how to work with them, how to read them and make them work for you.

The facts my friend has stated are true, however butting heads over every little thing is not the way to get things done in the field. Our guide is still a "kid", he needs to grow up and learn how to handle himself in many situations. I don't always agree or want to follow through with some guides methods. But, hey we all hunt differently and have our own tactics. This guides tactics were totally different than my friends, therefore the head butting started. Now this does not excuse his Drinking, and lack of care for his clients around camp, in the field and during the adventures flash flood we endured.

I go on hunts to have an adventures, to experience the great outdoors. Shooting an animal is a bonus for me. Am I disappointed in the service and not bringing home the meat and trophy, ABSOLUTELY! But, I saw a lot of bulls, I even shot a nice bull. If the flood had not come we would have retrieved the animal and I would have gone home happy and forgot about this "Guide". But the situation changed and caused even more tensions and stress to the situation.

Again, Am I unhappy about the total situation? YES. Should there be some sort of restoration by the Booking Agency and Outfitter? YES.
But I got my ADVENTURE! Therefore I would like for all of this to just be behind us now, as the constant blogs, emails, etc....are really dragging down the joy and memories I did have sharing an Adventure with a friend.

I like your attitude, broadside. Welcome to ifish.

You sound like a healthy guy. I hope this situation works out to your satisfaction.


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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other.
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If you rifle hunt with anything bigger than a 7mm-08 you're a sissy and should wear pink panties.



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C-13 South Beach Marina

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Old 09-25-2013, 01:06 PM   #113
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

At first I was completely sympathic with your cause, however after reading this.


"The facts my friend has stated are true, however butting heads over every little thing is not the way to get things done in the field. Our guide is still a "kid", he needs to grow up and learn how to handle himself in many situations. I don't always agree or want to follow through with some guides methods. But, hey we all hunt differently and have our own tactics. This guides tactics were totally different than my friends, therefore the head butting started. Now this does not excuse his Drinking, and lack of care for his clients around camp, in the field and during the adventures flash flood we endured."

Not so much. As stated I have been on a number of guided trips as hunter and non hunter. Sorry but your friend was the client, it was HIS trip.

In fact unless he wanted you to led support to his story it was kind of marginal for you to even contact the outfitter on your own. Your friend sounds like a very level head individual and I am sure he could get this settled on his own.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:22 PM   #114
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

BW...

When someone puts your life in their hands and has total disregard for your well being. Please don't do anything to stand up for yourself. Just tuck your tail between your legs and allow whatever to happen to happen. After all, you're just lucky to be there.

If this is your stance on things, then I have an idea of where you can apply for a job. You will fit right in and the weather is great this time of year.

Here's the key no matter the situation. Take accountability for your actions, be a good representative for your employer, do the best job possible no matter what the situation may be. Sorry you don't see things that way.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #115
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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In fact unless he wanted you to led support to his story it was kind of marginal for you to even contact the outfitter on your own.
Just because he did not carry the bow, doesn't mean he was not a paying client.

Overall, it's less about the tactics of hunting and more about how the guide treated both the hunter and the guest. And, the response of the outfitter to this point.

I think both of them have the right to hold these folks accountable to what took place.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:45 PM   #116
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

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BW...

When someone puts your life in their hands and has total disregard for your well being. Please don't do anything to stand up for yourself. Just tuck your tail between your legs and allow whatever to happen to happen. After all, you're just lucky to be there.

If this is your stance on things, then I have an idea of where you can apply for a job. You will fit right in and the weather is great this time of year.

Here's the key no matter the situation. Take accountability for your actions, be a good representative for your employer, do the best job possible no matter what the situation may be. Sorry you don't see things that way.

I am utterly stunned at the complete incompetence and lack of professionalism by this guide and outfitter. Wil you have much more patience than I. This is the worst outfitter/guided hunt I have ever heard of. Thanks for sharing your story.

Last edited by DLAW; 09-25-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:40 PM   #117
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Nearly 10,000 views of this thread, I think the word has gotten out. Still a bummer Wil and broadside...thanks for keeping cool and treating it the way you did.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:25 PM   #118
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

On a positive note: We have received a phone call from ED who was our cook in camp. He was unaware of the goings on until recently and quickly made a phone call to both my friend and myself apologizing for the ordeal with the Guide. As mentioned in the original email that was sent, my biggest beef was with the poor treatment for the GUIDE who was unfortunately our only reference to the outfitter. The Outfitter has also called is has promised to what he can within his means as BROADSIDE mentioned.

Ive have been laying low purposely to allow them to do what they need to do on their end to make things correct. They seem willing to do so, so like someone mentioned - squeaky wheel.

I'll put up some other pics from the trip shortly. As you will see BROADSIDE and myself always have a smile on our face and for those who do know us can attest that we are very easy going and easy to get along with. No ego's and usually no drama.

Sometimes things happen for a reason before a problem can be brought to the surface. Wake up call... maybe? but the wheel is turning.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:14 AM   #119
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

Last post on this. Not at all letting the guide off the hook on the drinking or other behavioral issues.

I am saying it appears you, more than your friend may have been what got him started. It seems this guide has a lot of growing up to do and he without a doubt was a bad ambassador for his employer.

I am saying that your friend is the one that drew the tag, and it was his hunt. When My wife wanted to hunt bear on the Qunault, I went along the same as you. She had an issue with what the guide wanted to do, so I told her she would need to speak up and let him know about it. She did and problem was solved.

If you friend had a problem it should have been his place to speak up. If the guide wanted to leave elk to look some place else your friend should have said something not you. If your friend said nothing, well maybe there was a reason.

Done with this
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:56 AM   #120
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Default Re: New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

The old saying never guide the guide....comes to mind. However not in this case. Wil is a very accomplished elk hunter in his own right and if he had thoughts and suggestions about how to pursue these bulls why not speak up. I know I would have... actually on about the second day I would have said to drop me off here and come pick me up here at dark if you are sober enough. I don’t hunt around drunks and certainly would not allow a guide to drink and run me around. It is hard to imagine these conditions to hunt in and I really do not know what I would do if I was in the same situation. I hope they make it right for you and your friend Wil... I know some are saying that you were not the hunter... I don’t buy it. You were there too, maybe not to hunt but to document the hunt and take your amazing photo's. I bet when they look back they will regret what transpired and clearly see how beneficial this hunt could have been for this outfitter had they done a few things differently and treated you with respect. After all having a great hunting experience documented in Extreme Elk would have brought them lots of business.

Good luck Wil, and Broadside.

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