Columbia river bar to go or not to go

porter · 07-01-2003, 07:26 PM

I have been studying the board and this is how I would summarize things for the 2nd of July
1. Avoid large tidal swings. The second is a minus 1.01. Probably not favorable?
2. You don't want to go over on an ebb. So you should wait until low tide at 10:21 or a little later to make the crossing. OK?
3. The ideal time to return would be high slack at 17:00. I noticed they are calling for small craft advisory in the afternoon. Maybe that won't be a good time?
4. Then there's the weather forecast. WED...N WIND 10 KT...RISING TO 20 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. WIND
WAVES 4 FT. NW SWELL 5 FT AT 7 SECONDS. This is the part that I'm not sure about. Is there a guideline for how big is to big for wind waves. Same question for swells. When are the intervals getting too close together. I'm sure the boat makes a difference here. It is a 20' JetCraft.

I am leaning toward not going tomorrow. Am I interpreting things correctly?

If I am correct. Are there any good fishing places for summer Chinook just above tongue point?

Thank you for your insight.

N7754H · 07-01-2003, 08:29 PM

high slack, no minus and don't do it by yourself if you have never gone before it can rapidly turn into the worst trip of your life or the last trip of your life.

Flatfish · 07-01-2003, 09:19 PM

There are too many ways to get into the ocean to cross the Columbia bar.

In Garibaldi, travel as you cross the bar is short. You are only on the thing for a couple hundred yards.

The bar on the big river is huge. Currents going multiple directions. The whole deal. Why go there when Tilly and Nehalem are so close? Or Washington's southern ports( never been there, but I PROMISE the crossing is not as bad as the big river).

5 feet at 7 seconds with 4' slop is out over the bar. 5 feet at 7 seconds is some fairly steep waves.

We were out on Saturday in a closed cabin 24' trophy. A fair big water boat. Much better than most any sled( not slamming boats here, but given the choice as to which ride to hop in on the big blue, "Trophy" beats "sled"), conditions were similar to what you describe. Maybe a second quicker on the swells. Maybe a foot bigger...Maybe.

We went out a mile. It was too sloppy to run in, so we started trolling. After an hour of trolling, we said "forget this crap, lets go back inside". Our cheer was led by our captain. An ex commercial dory fisherman. A brave, smart, experienced, and living ex doryman.

I was out last year in his sled( before he got the Trophy). The wind whop was minimal. The swells were better than 10'. The big ones were better than 12'. They were a good 15 seconds apart. We fished til we limited out. Then we enjoyed a fairly( all points considered) easy ride home.

Moral of the story? Steep waves will make you pucker much faster than big ones. Big and steep waves are a problem waiting to happen. The Columbia river bar can be big, steep, and fast in multiple directions. All at the same time. For a mile.

I have spent my life in boats. I have rowed places that I don't tell folks about because rowing there is a bad idea. I have been on the ocean in both good and bad. I stay away from the big river's bar.

Cross on the incoming. Be over the thing before it starts to stack up again. No matter what. No matter how fast the fishing is, head back in before it starts to go out again.

The wind usually picks up around 10-noon. Time your tides so you are off the water before the wind is a factor.

The Tilly disaster crossed at the bottom of a big negative tide.

I do not want to sound like a downer here. But the more I see, the more cautious I get. I have been scared for my life on the Columbia. I don't think I want to chance that again for a fish. Especially when I can go elsewhere and minimize part of the problem.

Mark and the no way in Hades am I going there dog.

[ 07-06-2003, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Flatfish ]

Tilla · 07-01-2003, 09:45 PM

Just remember, it's OK not to go. Clamming at the ebb might be something new and fun. It's OK not to go.

porter · 07-01-2003, 09:46 PM

Sounds like I had it right. I figured I wouldn't be able to go out in the ocean. I'm camping in the area. How about the summer Chinook action above tongue point. Are there any general areas you could point me to. If not I'm sure I can have some fun catching and releasing sturgeon

Miss B Haven · 07-01-2003, 10:09 PM

Flatfish- You did VERY well on that. The only thing I would change is you said:
"The Columbia river bar can be big, steep, and fast in multiple directions. All at the same time. For a mile."

I would change that to "a mile on a good day".
It's 5 miles from 10 to the Spark Plug (approx). I've seen the bar be "the bar" almost all the way. It wasn't a real ugly day either, just a maybe 5 on the pucker factor scale (and I'm in a 34 footer now). Point is it can be 1/2 hour of trying to get out or back in where as T-bay is a couple minute pucker at worst.

Confession time: I had a 15 open bow I ran out of T-bay and at B10 a lot and in some conditions where other people flipped boats and even died.
Then a 24 full cabin, same thing. But I never took either one across the bar at the CR. Call me "Chicken of the C"(R). It's argueably the nastiest river entrance in the world. Respect it, enjoy the river fishery if you don't like the bar or the Ocean. It will still be there next trip, so will the fish.

Mel- and the "I'm so fat I can't even get in the boat to go fishing dog"

[ 07-01-2003, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

Mr. BrownTrout · 07-02-2003, 05:12 AM

If you never crossed the C/R bar you might want to either hook up with someone who has or wait until day light and drive out to the south jetty and take a look with your binoculars. Your going to get alot of good advice here on the ifish board. I use to fish outside at both places, Columbia river and Tillamook bay, I only had a 14' gregor, I never had any problems. I know some people here on the board will call me stupid, thats there opinion and they are entitled to it, but I am still alive, caught lots of fish and had fun. Just make sure you have your PFD on as things can get real ugly real fast, I decked handed on many boats out of the Columbia and have seen the bar at its best and at it worst.

07-02-2003, 07:09 AM

Your question is very good and the replys you have received are all correct. I fish the columbia river bar on a regular basis.
The basic rule of the road is cross on slack or incoming tides. Any swing over 5' can create large standing waves or breakers. If you have not been across, go with others that have. If in doubt, don't go. Remember that around 11:00 a.m. the NW wind usually appears and the ocean gets rough rapidly. I was there last Sunday and it was impassable (safely) to small craft till around 8:30 a.m. Had a great time at the dock in Ilwaco meeting my neighbors and cleaning the boat.
We never left the dock but had a lot of fun anyway. Feel free to give me a call on the CB channel 13 or VHF channel 69. I am the "Shearwater" and will return your hail.
Have fun and be safe!!

Tacklebuster · 07-02-2003, 08:58 AM

I have crossed the CR bar about 6 times in my 19 foot inboard jet sled. I only make the trip when I can cross and get back again on a flood. I have had some pretty good experiences thus far (knock on wood) but I did have one day when we got to buoy 4 and decided to turn back because the winds were picking up and the waves started to get a little steeper.

I usually will not go if the ocean conditions call for a 4 foot wind wave or better. I also will not go if the combines seas are greater than the seconds apart. This is only predictions and usually are set for worst case predictions. With a swell at 5 feet and a wind wave predicted for 4 feet at seven seconds, I would find something else to do for the day.

I would strongly advise to wear your pfd at least when crossing the bar. I will not harp on that too much cause out of the six times I have taken my boat and a couple other trips I went on someone else's ride I have only worn mine about half the time. I have a full dry suit and thermals that I wear now so I feel a lot better.

Good luck and use wise judgement...

Killertraylor · 07-02-2003, 10:46 AM

Flatfish, and Miss B Haven - try crossing the CR bar right up along the north jetty. I run within 400 yards of it all the way to the tip - make a wide berth around the tip as there's a big rock there (you'll see waves breaking on it) and you're in the ocean - total "bar crossing distance" is usually 400 yards on a nice day, less than 800 yards on a crappy day. I only cross the bar on flood tides when there's a relatively flat ocean, but this is definitely the place to do it if you don't want a one mile crossing out in the middle of the river. Just because there are buoys out there doesn't mean you have to follow them! I've also crossed the bar there when there was a 6 foot swell at buoy 10, but the ocean was flat as a lake - wierd how that happens. If you have time and are launching out of Ilwaco or Chinoo, it helps to drive over to Long Beach first and look at the ocean to see how flat it is and then get up high above Fort Canby and look at the bar.

Flatfish - I'd take my 23' Northriver Seahawk any day over that 24' Trophy. Much smoother ride, more durable and safer in my opinion. Of course, my Seahawk isn't exactly a "sled" with the deep V, hard top and 250 Yamaha with a prop. I'm sure you were talking about those guys that do it in the open sleds.

timinthegorge · 07-02-2003, 01:26 PM

Good thread guys....

I too am a chicken of the sea! I think I'll keep my 19' up here in the mid-CR.... not that it can't be dangerous at times up here too, but it's about the water you know, and how wind and wave acts on that water.

Good Advice All.....

Tim

Flatfish · 07-02-2003, 03:51 PM

KT, I have seen pics of your boat. It is not a "Normal" sled.

Ever notice that the guys who make a living fishing the ocean do not do it in sleds? They are in glass, wood, and steel. And jet pumps are for riffles. That was my point.

400 yards on a good day and 800 if it is a bit rougher huh? Last weekend at Tilly we were on the "Bar" for about 200 yards going out and maybe 300 coming back in. I have never spent so much time in "The Zone" before. On the calm days there, you go out 100 yards past the jetty and turn right( into the summer wind). The only reason we were on the bar as long as we were is we were on the North side of the bar, and the south end was much calmer between the jaws. So we quartered across from a distance. Keeping the boat fairly square with the swells.

I am not saying that the CR is not feasable. But surely you don't feel it is safer than Nehalem or Tilly? That was my point in my first post.

Oh yeah, the captain of the trophy is an ex commercial fisherman. He has many lifetimes worth of experience in my eyes. Bar crossings counted in the hundreds. Night crossings. The whole bit. He also has a slip at Hammond. He will not put the boat in there until the ocean is shut down or bouy 10 opens. Kinda tells you something about a professionals opinion on the subject.

Be safe out there folks. No matter where you are.

Mark and the dog who sure likes it when the cohos jump.

Miss B Haven · 07-02-2003, 11:32 PM

Killertraylor - That route puts you right on Peacock Spit. :shocked: NO THANKS!

(not if there is any Ocean anyway).

Nobody takes the green line out that has been around for a while (not when it's rough anyway).

CATCH AND EAT · 07-02-2003, 11:46 PM

But the green line is so nice in 4 ft rollers with 2 ft wind chop. Don't forget the occasional 6 to 8 ft swells that rome the area.

Go out the red line and make your cut accross from 2 if the weather is nice, current in a favorable direction, and the swell minimal. No fish is worth the chance of seeing Nemo in person.

Killertraylor · 07-06-2003, 08:35 PM

Peacock spit! Woohoo! Actually, I usually make a wide enough berth to miss it completely. Ever since Robbie Greenfield dumped his 45 foot crabber there a few years ago I don't get near it. Seems like every time I take the "red line" it's a huge bar crossing and every time I stay up north, I hardly notice the transition from ocean to river. I've only done it about 40 times though - Flatfish and Miss B Haven - you guys probably do it 40 times a summer.

Flatfish - Guys who make a living in the ocean are always in glass, wood and steel? I've seen hundreds of crabbers (from Oregon and Washington) and thousands of gillnet boats (in Bristol Bay, AK) made of Aluminum. I'm not saying the material is necessarily better under any circumstance, I'm just saying I've been in a Trophy in the ocean and I'd rather be in my Northriver any day. I certainly wasn't trying to argue that the CR was safer than Nehalem or Tillamook!

Excellent advice both of you gave, I just wanted to share my (limited) experience too.

Flatfish · 07-06-2003, 10:20 PM

KT,

Peace.

Mark and the dog.

[ 07-06-2003, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Flatfish ]

boater · 07-07-2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Killertraylor:
Flatfish - I'd take my 23' Northriver Seahawk any day over that 24' Trophy. Much smoother ride, more durable and safer in my opinion.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">it looks like it rides good in the chop to, i ran beside you at ilwaco last year, nice looking boat.

[ 07-07-2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: boater ]

porter · 07-08-2003, 09:29 PM

It was a no brainer not to go out on the 2nd. The wind was blowing hard. The third however was a beautiful day. There was a little bit of a bar going out but not bad. We caught our fish within a matter of a couple of hours and went back in. The bar was flat all the way in. COuldn't really tell where it started or ended. Thank you for the advice.

Kevin